No more Kneeling for NFL

Legion said:
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The first thing to know about the First Amendment is that it is a limit only on government.

It prohibits the federal government from making laws that infringe on the rights of religion, speech, press, assembly and petition.

Through the Fourteenth Amendment, state and local governments are also prohibited from infringing on these rights.

https://www.workplacefairness.org/retaliation-public-employees
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Post 779.
 
christiefan915 said:
"In the famous flag burning cases a few years ago, the Supreme Court made clear that in America, we have no revered symbols that command orthodox respect. The flag itself represents the right to treat it as one wishes. We are free to respect the flag and to shun those who do not, but we may not harm a hair on their heads."
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Completely irrelevant.
 
christiefan915 said:
From what I've read there's no one size fits all answer. Here's a decent article on the subject. https://www.creators.com/read/judge-napolitano/10/17/is-taking-a-knee-protected-speech

trump should have learned this before opening his big fat piehole and spouting off.

"In the famous flag burning cases a few years ago, the Supreme Court made clear that in America, we have no revered symbols that command orthodox respect. The flag itself represents the right to treat it as one wishes. We are free to respect the flag and to shun those who do not, but we may not harm a hair on their heads."
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Trump is irrelevant to me. I'm clearly not a lawyer but the NFL is a business and if players kneeling hurts their business I have trouble believing the Constitution can stop the NFL from saying don't it. The morality of the NFL's action is a different discussion. I'm speaking strictly of constitutional rights
 
cawacko said:
Trump is irrelevant to me. I'm clearly not a lawyer but the NFL is a business and if players kneeling hurts their business I have trouble believing the Constitution can stop the NFL from saying don't it. The morality of the NFL's action is a different discussion. I'm speaking strictly of constitutional rights
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The article was written by RW favorite Andrew Napolitano. Don't know if you read it but here's what I was talking about.

"At a rally in Alabama last month, Trump aggressively attacked the practice of taking a knee. He argued that it was so disrespectful to the American flag and the national anthem that those who had taken a knee should be fired from their jobs...

When the players union backed up these silent expressions of political opinions, it argued that all of its members have a constitutional right to express themselves in uniform in their workplace. Do they? The short answer is that it depends on where the players are when they take a knee...

Expressive conduct — lawful behavior that offers a political opinion — is the constitutional equivalent of free speech. So interfering with expressive conduct or commanding its cessation in conformity to management's political or patriotic views constitutes interfering with speech. May employers do that?

In states where expressive conduct in the workplace is protected, employees may express themselves as long as they do not materially interfere with the business of the workplace. In states without that employee protection, they may not do so.

However, even in the states that lack the employee expression protection, if management's instructions to conform require conformance on property that the government owns, such as a publicly owned stadium, then management is treated constitutionally as if it were the government. Just as the government cannot interfere with speech to suppress its content or to compel conformity, neither may team management when teams play on government-owned land...
 
Legion: Take it to court and we'll see.
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I'd like to see what proof the NFL has that kneeling hurt their bottom line.
 
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christiefan915 said:
The article was written by RW favorite Andrew Napolitano. Don't know if you read it but here's what I was talking about.

"At a rally in Alabama last month, Trump aggressively attacked the practice of taking a knee. He argued that it was so disrespectful to the American flag and the national anthem that those who had taken a knee should be fired from their jobs...

When the players union backed up these silent expressions of political opinions, it argued that all of its members have a constitutional right to express themselves in uniform in their workplace. Do they? The short answer is that it depends on where the players are when they take a knee...

Expressive conduct — lawful behavior that offers a political opinion — is the constitutional equivalent of free speech. So interfering with expressive conduct or commanding its cessation in conformity to management's political or patriotic views constitutes interfering with speech. May employers do that?

In states where expressive conduct in the workplace is protected, employees may express themselves as long as they do not materially interfere with the business of the workplace. In states without that employee protection, they may not do so.

However, even in the states that lack the employee expression protection, if management's instructions to conform require conformance on property that the government owns, such as a publicly owned stadium, then management is treated constitutionally as if it were the government. Just as the government cannot interfere with speech to suppress its content or to compel conformity, neither may team management when teams play on government-owned land...
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Haven't you trashed Napolitano in the past?

BTW, his opinion isn't Stare Decisis, is it?
 
christiefan915 said:
The article was written by RW favorite Andrew Napolitano. Don't know if you read it but here's what I was talking about.

"At a rally in Alabama last month, Trump aggressively attacked the practice of taking a knee. He argued that it was so disrespectful to the American flag and the national anthem that those who had taken a knee should be fired from their jobs...

When the players union backed up these silent expressions of political opinions, it argued that all of its members have a constitutional right to express themselves in uniform in their workplace. Do they? The short answer is that it depends on where the players are when they take a knee...

Expressive conduct — lawful behavior that offers a political opinion — is the constitutional equivalent of free speech. So interfering with expressive conduct or commanding its cessation in conformity to management's political or patriotic views constitutes interfering with speech. May employers do that?

In states where expressive conduct in the workplace is protected, employees may express themselves as long as they do not materially interfere with the business of the workplace. In states without that employee protection, they may not do so.

However, even in the states that lack the employee expression protection, if management's instructions to conform require conformance on property that the government owns, such as a publicly owned stadium, then management is treated constitutionally as if it were the government. Just as the government cannot interfere with speech to suppress its content or to compel conformity, neither may team management when teams play on government-owned land....
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Bingo. Most stadiums were built with public funds, right? I know the former Rams stadium in STL was built with taxpayer funding... and then the Rams skipped town and left the city holding the bag.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...tlanta-san-diego-minnesota-los-angeles-033116
 
cawacko said:
Trump is irrelevant to me. I'm clearly not a lawyer but the NFL is a business and if players kneeling hurts their business I have trouble believing the Constitution can stop the NFL from saying don't it. The morality of the NFL's action is a different discussion. I'm speaking strictly of constitutional rights
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So far, the NFL is not saying that they can't kneel, is it?
 
domer76 said:
So far, the NFL is not saying that they can't kneel, is it?
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My understanding is they asked the players to stay in the locker room if they don't want to stand and that there would be a fine for the team if one of their players kneels
 
christiefan915 said:
Yep. Our Heinz Field was built with public funds... corporate welfare according to some.
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It is corporate welfare. But if you remember BAC, a socialist, strongly supported Atlanta using public funds to build their new stadium. Sports teams and their stadiums can really hit people in their hearts.
 
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