NEW BOMBSHELL: Jared Kushner and Mike Flynn met with the Russians in December

christiefan915 said:
Demmycrats have been very critical of Trump and that contributes to instability.......but we don't give a fuck about stability
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I know, right?.....(you should know by now Chrispy.....if you start a thread and don't thread ban me, you shouldn't say stupid things in the thread)......
 
christiefan915 said:
People better get used to the idea that anyone in trump's team who was in contact with Russia is going to be under suspicion. Whether you want to believe it or not, Russia meddled in our business just like they've been meddling in other governments all over Europe.
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This
 
christiefan915 said:
People better get used to the idea that anyone in trump's team who was in contact with Russia is going to be under suspicion.
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Let me see if I got this right - if they were in contact with "the Russians" they will be under suspicion of being in contact with "The Russians". I think I got it. BTW, Is that like being in contact with The Devil? And if they were in contact with The Devil will they under suspicion of being in contact with The Devil?
christiefan915 said:
Whether you want to believe it or not, Russia meddled in our business just like they've been meddling in other governments all over Europe.
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Why wouldn't I believe it? We certainly meddle in other countries' business. China does. Weren't we caught hacking into other countries' leaders cell phone conversations? Not that I condone it.
 
christiefan915 said:
trump may be gullible enough to believe Putin's an honorable man but smarter people know better. People who have been in government and seen how Putin operates don't trust him.

Lindsey Graham said "When it comes to Russia, he has a blind spot. The bottom line is that Putin is disrupting democracy everywhere..."

John McCain said ""Have no doubt, what the Russians tried to do to our election could have destroyed democracy," he said. "And that's why we've got to pay a hell of a lot more attention to the Russians and the things they're doing in Europe -- and right now, they're trying to determine the outcome of the French election, and they're using cyber."

Ben Sasse said "I don’t understand what the president’s position is on Russia. But I can tell you what my position is on Russia: Russia is a great danger to a lot of its neighbors, and Putin has as one of his core objectives fracturing NATO, which is one of the greatest military alliances in the history of the world. And so Putin is a mess. He’s committed all sort of murderous thuggery, and I am opposed to the way Putin conducts himself in world affairs, and I hope that the president also wants to show moral leadership about this issue.”

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., called Putin "a former KGB agent" and "a thug..."

Paul Ryan called Russia a "global menace" and said Putin "does not share our interests; he frustrates our interests."
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Funny how you trust these guys when they say what you want them to, lol.
 
aloysious said:
Let me see if I got this right - if they were in contact with "the Russians" they will be under suspicion of being in contact with "The Russians". I think I got it. BTW, Is that like being in contact with The Devil? And if they were in contact with The Devil will they under suspicion of being in contact with The Devil? Why wouldn't I believe it? We certainly meddle in other countries' business. China does. Weren't we caught hacking into other countries' leaders cell phone conversations? Not that I condone it.
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but but but....these are !RUSSIANS! ..the devil we can deal with , but not THE RUSSIANS! :)
 
anatta said:
but but but....these are !RUSSIANS! ..the devil we can deal with , but not THE RUSSIANS! :)
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These aren't Russians. This is soviet style espionage in a secret alliance with our chief executive. How about some blue skies? Why don't you care?
 
Micawber said:
These aren't Russians. This is soviet style espionage in a secret alliance with our chief executive. How about some blue skies? Why don't you care?
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^ utter hyperbolic worthless partisan garbage. reject for fallacy..

Riddle me this instead.. what does it gain US/NATO to maintain/increase tensions in E.Europe?

Do you have any idea of the sheer mass quantities of weapons systems/manpower we have pointed at each other?
How does policy like the European Reassurance Initiative improve anyone's situation in Europe?
 
anatta said:
trust in realpolitik, it cannot lie. Nations like individuals act in their own best interest.
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I don't know a lot about it but is realpolitik what reagan practiced when he sold arms to the Contras, or when bush launched the Iraq war?

"Realpolitik is distinct from ideological politics in that it is not dictated by a fixed set of rules, but instead tends to be goal-oriented, limited only by practical exigencies. Since Realpolitik is ordered toward the most practical means of securing national interests, it can often entail compromising on ideological principles. For example, during the Cold War, the United States often supported authoritarian regimes that were human rights violators, in order to theoretically secure the greater national interest of regional stability.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] After the end of Cold War this practice continued.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]"


[/SUP]
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't know a lot about it but is realpolitik what reagan practiced when he sold arms to the Contras, or when bush launched the Iraq war?

"Realpolitik is distinct from ideological politics in that it is not dictated by a fixed set of rules, but instead tends to be goal-oriented, limited only by practical exigencies. Since Realpolitik is ordered toward the most practical means of securing national interests, it can often entail compromising on ideological principles. For example, during the Cold War, the United States often supported authoritarian regimes that were human rights violators, in order to theoretically secure the greater national interest of regional stability.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP][SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] After the end of Cold War this practice continued.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17]"


[/SUP]
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those are decidedly NOT examples of realpolitik..you show the definition. I gave it shorthand.
We are all better off when we acknowledge each others best interest are served when we use that as an organizing principle for alliance/transactions

we acknowledge Russia has legitimate security needs that NATO expansionism undermines.
Russia needs to acknowledge it has annexed and federated the Uk,and meddled in other elections.

we have lower level talks along these organizing principles -where the goal is a summit where realignment benefits everyone
 
anatta said:
those are decidedly NOT examples of realpolitik..you show the definition. I gave it shorthand.
We are all better off when we acknowledge each others best interest are served when we use that as an organizing principle for alliance/transactions

we acknowledge Russia has legitimate security needs that NATO expansionism undermines.
Russia needs to acknowledge it has annexed and federated the Uk,and meddled in other elections.

we have lower level talks along these organizing principles -where the goal is a summit where realignment benefits everyone
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Like I said, I don't know enough about it. But our ideological principles were compromised when reagan sold arms to the Contras. And IMO our principles are pretty shaky when we give a pass human rights violators like the Saudis.
 
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