Nation Building 101

QP!

QP!

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This is Nation Building 101.

The US must now embark on over a decade to build up Venezuela infrastructure not just to produce oil but roads and ports, etc so the oil can be accessed and extracted.

This movie is not new. It was tried in Venezuela prior with the Big Oil companies losing billions when they invested and then got kicked out with regime change. It was done in the Middle East, leading to 9/11 and an era of emerging Terror Organizations all considering America (not Israel) the biggest target for attacks.

So this time Trump is floating US taxpayers pay all the costs... and of course then Big Oil gets all the profits.

Trump says the U.S. government (taxpayers) may reimburse oil companies for rebuilding Venezuela's infrastructure​

Big oil firms will either "get reimbursed by us or through revenue," Trump told NBC News in an exclusive interview.

..."A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent, and the oil companies will spend it, and then they’ll get reimbursed by us or through revenue," he said...

"It’ll be a very substantial amount of money will be spent" by the oil companies, Trump said. ...

Despite Trump's optimism, oil companies have appeared skeptical of quickly entering, expanding or investing in Venezuela. A history of state asset seizures, the ongoing U.S. sanctions and the latest political instability all feed into this caution.
 
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Time stamped for you, Trump in NYT audio interview trying to be as clear as he can be about how the US will be rebuilding Venezuela with US tax dollars and you add to this Trump saying in the prior interview that the US taxpayer may guarantee or fund the mass amount of infrastructure (ports, roads, refineries, power facilities and grid) to make the oil in the remote areas accessible to US big Oil interests, who are afraid to spend the decades of cash and see another regime change in Venezuela that could Nationalize all of it, and you can see how massive this cost will be for taxpayers.




@T. A. Gardner , @FastLane , @Damocles , you guys good with this plan?
 
QP! said:
This is Nation Building 101.

The US must now embark on over a decade to build up Venezuela infrastructure not just to produce oil but roads and ports, etc so the oil can be accessed and extracted.

This movie is not new. It was tried in Venezuela prior with the Big Oil companies losing billions when they invested and then got kicked out with regime change. It was done in the Middle East, leading to 9/11 and an era of emerging Terror Organizations all considering America (not Israel) the biggest target for attacks.

So this time Trump is floating US taxpayers pay all the costs... and of course then Big Oil gets all the profits.

Trump says the U.S. government (taxpayers) may reimburse oil companies for rebuilding Venezuela's infrastructure​

Big oil firms will either "get reimbursed by us or through revenue," Trump told NBC News in an exclusive interview.

..."A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent, and the oil companies will spend it, and then they’ll get reimbursed by us or through revenue," he said...

"It’ll be a very substantial amount of money will be spent" by the oil companies, Trump said. ...

Despite Trump's optimism, oil companies have appeared skeptical of quickly entering, expanding or investing in Venezuela. A history of state asset seizures, the ongoing U.S. sanctions and the latest political instability all feed into this caution.
Click to expand...
Another Iraq war type clusterfuck.
 
QP! said:
This is Nation Building 101.

The US must now embark on over a decade to build up Venezuela infrastructure not just to produce oil but roads and ports, etc so the oil can be accessed and extracted.

This movie is not new. It was tried in Venezuela prior with the Big Oil companies losing billions when they invested and then got kicked out with regime change. It was done in the Middle East, leading to 9/11 and an era of emerging Terror Organizations all considering America (not Israel) the biggest target for attacks.

So this time Trump is floating US taxpayers pay all the costs... and of course then Big Oil gets all the profits.

Trump says the U.S. government (taxpayers) may reimburse oil companies for rebuilding Venezuela's infrastructure​

Big oil firms will either "get reimbursed by us or through revenue," Trump told NBC News in an exclusive interview.

..."A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent, and the oil companies will spend it, and then they’ll get reimbursed by us or through revenue," he said...

"It’ll be a very substantial amount of money will be spent" by the oil companies, Trump said. ...

Despite Trump's optimism, oil companies have appeared skeptical of quickly entering, expanding or investing in Venezuela. A history of state asset seizures, the ongoing U.S. sanctions and the latest political instability all feed into this caution.
Click to expand...
I know there were rich venezuelans kids showing up at my Jesuit school in indiana in the mid eighties.

make of that what you will.
 
LurchAddams said:
Another Iraq war type clusterfuck.
Click to expand...

It is actually much worse than that.

With the Iraq war there was no plan to stay and confiscate the oil (directly) and lets pretend they did, the cost of getting oil in the Middle East is tiny comparatively.

In Venezuela the bulk of oil is in the most remote and unreachable and unserviceable parts of the country. Getting it out would mirror what was done in Alberta Canada, in the earliest days of the Oil Sands, where an entire city and roads, power, etc had to be formed to service it.

This would require nation building to the extreme in Venezuela. Roads, Ports, Refineries, electricity generation and a grid all built in the most unhospitable area of the country. We are talking about trillions upon trillions of US taxpayer dollars over about 20 years, for the volumes to finally grow to a point where the oil was extracted at a profit.

If i was a Venezuelan i would allow the US to start right away. Start pouring that money in to the country and building out that infrastructure. Shut up and let them spend and improve these things in country and enjoy the economic spin offs. In 15-20 years time, the Venezuelans can again have a citizen referendum or change their Constitution again to kick out all international companies and re nationalize all oil assets and they just have to do so when the US has a POTUS who will respect that any country can do that legally and without reprisal.

That is why Big Oil is negotiating with Trump right now that they want US GOVERNMENT GUARANTEES on not just any money they put out but on future profit and revenue protection so they AGAIN do not lose everything after investing in Venezuela. As Trump does not care about tax payer money and only wants an 'optics win' we will likely give that protection and taxpayers will pay for all of it in the future.
 
QP! said:
It is actually much worse than that.

With the Iraq war there was no plan to stay and confiscate the oil (directly) and lets pretend they did, the cost of getting oil in the Middle East is tiny comparatively.

In Venezuela the bulk of oil is in the most remote and unreachable and unserviceable parts of the country. Getting it out would mirror what was done in Alberta Canada, in the earliest days of the Oil Sands, where an entire city and roads, power, etc had to be formed to service it.

This would require nation building to the extreme in Venezuela. Roads, Ports, Refineries, electricity generation and a grid all built in the most unhospitable area of the country. We are talking about trillions upon trillions of US taxpayer dollars over about 20 years, for the volumes to finally grow to a point where the oil was extracted at a profit.

If i was a Venezuelan i would allow the US to start right away. Start pouring that money in to the country and building out that infrastructure. Shut up and let them spend and improve these things in country and enjoy the economic spin offs. In 15-20 years time, the Venezuelans can again have a citizen referendum or change their Constitution again to kick out all international companies and re nationalize all oil assets and they just have to do so when the US has a POTUS who will respect that any country can do that legally and without reprisal.

That is why Big Oil is negotiating with Trump right now that they want US GOVERNMENT GUARANTEES on not just any money they put out but on future profit and revenue protection so they AGAIN do not lose everything after investing in Venezuela. As Trump does not care about tax payer money and only wants an 'optics win' we will likely give that protection and taxpayers will pay for all of it in the future.
Click to expand...
No big oil company is going to send workers into a guerrilla war zone to refurbish outdated machinery. Trump's boondoggle brought nothing but shame on the US.
 
LurchAddams said:
No big oil company is going to send workers into a guerrilla war zone to refurbish outdated machinery. Trump's boondoggle brought nothing but shame on the US.
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More like no big company of any sort is going to go into a nation where there is a damn good chance of another socialist / Leftist takeover and they'll end up losing their investment(s) there.

Venezuela is hardly the only Central / South American or Caribbean nation to do just that. Corporate management knows better.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
More like no big company of any sort is going to go into a nation where there is a damn good chance of another socialist / Leftist takeover and they'll end up losing their investment(s) there.

Venezuela is hardly the only Central / South American or Caribbean nation to do just that. Corporate management knows better.
Click to expand...
Trump is actively NOW bringing in the heads of Big Oil and trying every guarantee to get them to go back in and get that oil. he is floating the US taxpayer, paying for all of it and a continued 'troops on the ground' presence, to protect them.

he has floated paying directly for nation building and even oil extraction infrastructure all with tax payer money but the Oil Execs, being smart will hold off until they see an binding enforceable contract they can sue the US (not Venezuela) over should they lose everything again.
 
QP! said:
Trump is actively NOW bringing in the heads of Big Oil and trying every guarantee to get them to go back in and get that oil. he is floating the US taxpayer, paying for all of it and a continued 'troops on the ground' presence, to protect them.

he has floated paying directly for nation building and even oil extraction infrastructure all with tax payer money but the Oil Execs, being smart will hold off until they see an binding enforceable contract they can sue the US (not Venezuela) over should they lose everything again.
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This is not America first or Make America Great in any aspect.
 
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QP! said:
Trump is actively NOW bringing in the heads of Big Oil and trying every guarantee to get them to go back in and get that oil. he is floating the US taxpayer, paying for all of it and a continued 'troops on the ground' presence, to protect them.

he has floated paying directly for nation building and even oil extraction infrastructure all with tax payer money but the Oil Execs, being smart will hold off until they see an binding enforceable contract they can sue the US (not Venezuela) over should they lose everything again.
Click to expand...
Yea, and they're pushing back that Venezuela is unstable and potentially going to fall back into a socialist dictatorship. They want no part of that.

They also don't particularly need the oil. At some point the market gets glutted with an excess and prices crash. Energy companies don't want that to happen either.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Yea, and they're pushing back that Venezuela is unstable and potentially going to fall back into a socialist dictatorship. They want no part of that.

They also don't particularly need the oil. At some point the market gets glutted with an excess and prices crash. Energy companies don't want that to happen either.
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yes but Trump won't be deterred from trying as he sees his big win being 'securing the largest oil reserves in the world for America', as a something he can promote.

He does not care that it would likely take over 10 years of Nation Building to just start getting that oil to market in any meaningful amounts and then up to another 5-10 years to get to the high volumes necessary to be profitable. Trump is ok with all those costs being put on US taxpayers in the future, as long as he can get his 'Promotional win' now by getting the Big Oil to agree to go in and get the oil.

and if that means Trump has to get the US to guarantee EVERYTHING to Big Oil with taxpayers providing guarantees to them and building up the country infrastructure, he seems willing to do it.

Think of this like Bidens Infrastructure building in America but instead Trump's focus is Venezuela. MAGA!!!
 
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