Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Indeed was that not the intent of the bill of rights? To protect individual freedoms from the tyranny of the majority? The people who oppose this mosque are bigots. Pure and simple.
Mosque being built at Ground zero
- Thread starter BRUTALITOPS
- Start date
I accept no interference when it comes to the religious rights of the citizenry. Being of a minority religion tends to give me a different perspective than those of the Judeo-Christian persuasion...
I disagree, IMO those who would wield the power of the government to enforce their opposition to the mosque are ignoring the constitution, but they are not in total all bigots.
These same people, almost in total unanimity (except apparently AHZ who thinks that the religion should be entirely outlawed due to the militant radicals associated), agree that they have every right to build a mosque, just "not here"...
Let's say that some abortion provider got attacked by a Christian who killed many people there, then a church who was against such actions taken by the perpetrator wanted to build a church right next door. Those who didn't want the church "here", but were not against the church being built elsewhere, would they all be "bigots"?
There are Churches across the Middle East you ignorant idiot!
And they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!
There could be many motives other than bigotry.... the result is the same as if the motive was bigotry.
Clearly in many cases it is merely thinly veiled bigotry.
A peacefull and progressive Mosque is perfect for that site and likely what would piss off the Fundamentalist Muslems the most!
Its not Christians v. Muslums, its Progressives v. Fundamentalists.
Whether the result is the same, saying "bigotry plain and simple" is just a continuance of an attempt to silence people.
I support free speech, including in opposition of a mosque at ground zero. I do not support using the government's power to stop it because it is directly an end-run on the 1st Amendment, but those who are in opposition have every right to speak against it without constantly being called "racist" or "bigot", especially when most have other motivation.
This is the reason we can never have a frank discussion about these things in the US (racism and bigotry), the accusations fly long before anybody ever reaches racism or bigotry in an attempt to shut people up before they can make any effective argument.
Whether the result is the same, saying "bigotry plain and simple" is just a continuance of an attempt to silence people.
I support free speech, including in opposition of a mosque at ground zero. I do not support using the government's power to stop it because it is directly an end-run on the 1st Amendment, but those who are in opposition have every right to speak against it without constantly being called "racist" or "bigot", especially when most have other motivation.
This is the reason we can never have a frank discussion about these things in the US (racism and bigotry), the accusations fly regardless of racism or bigotry in an attempt to shut people up before they can make any effective argument.
This is like the church in the dark ages saying, "Heretic!"
Free Speach allows a spade to be called a spade, even if you dont like being called a bigot.
But, I agree, its mostly ignorance that fuels this issue....
Its easier to say Muslams are bad, than to understand its that fundamentalists are bad, not muslams.
Again, most people arguing against this are not saying that "Muslims are bad". That itself is an attempt to silence any opposition to the side you are taking. This is like the church calling Galileo a "heretic" so that science wouldn't progress to prove the church's position wrong...
People saying "not here" but who would support that same Mosque built just blocks away are not "bigots" or "ignorant". Quit trying to use ad hom attacks to silence people, those attacks keep us from ever having frank discussions on issues that involve these kinds of things.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
No jarod, it's the pro-jihadists who are ignorant of the actual teachings of islam. There is no "moderate islam". that's a pack of lies to tell self-hating westerners to get them to let their guard down.
But you need to look deeper into why "not here"? It is because they associate ALL Muslums with what happened on 9-11, and to do that is bigoted and ignorant. To not understand that there are all kinds of Muslams, just like there are all kinds of Christians is ignorant and bigoted.
Its not ad hom when its true.
I agree we need to go deeper than simple name calling, but a bigot is a bigot, no matter how much they soften the language....
Bullshit. I know several "moderate" or non-fundamentalist Muslams.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Newsflash. in islam it's ok to misrepresent your beliefs to outsiders. It's called taquiyah. Look it up. It's real. many of these "moderates" who seem assimilated, are assimilated up until the day they build a car bomb and set it off.
The buildings existance as is is not the same as a 15 story super mosque. The fact that 4.5 million cash was used to purchase this building with an intention to tear it down against the desire of the community was unknown to the wider population of residents until more recently...
The fact that Islam has a historical record of building giant mosques near sites of conquest is also worth looking at, especially in light of the fact that the Masjid Mosque has raised $8.5 million and is seeking an additional $2.5 million to begin construction. While it apparently has not settled on a final location, it has told donors it plans to build very close to where 3,000 people were killed in the September 11 terror attacks.
This makes 2 mosques to compete with the memory of 2 towers...yeah.
But again, this is another case of PC gone mad.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Additionally, it's absurd to claim than disallowing this mosque would give the islamists a "feeling of victory for having effected our tolerance". Im sure it's the opposite. This mosque is a victory strut for jihadists.
This has NOTHING to do with Judeo Christian beliefs Damo. Again, this is not about denial of 1st amendment rights, but the lack of reasoned insight by a local government. There are perfectly legitimate grounds for denial of giving building permits...
BTW in Islam a "a place to pray" is not even nearly equal to a Mosque. "The name Cordoba House at best conveys a total insensitivity to the families of victims of the attack at worst it shows sympathy with the terrorist’s goals. Cordoba, was the Capital of Al-Andalus the Islamic Caliphate that ruled much of Spain during the Middle Ages. One of Al-Qaida’s main goals announced after the 9/11 attack was the restoration of the Cordoba Caliphate in Al-Andalus."
BFD! Historical registry's often take a long time to finalize. They mean a cost to a community. The cost of a buildings renovations always impacts the speed in which these things happen.
A place of prayer is not the same as tearing down a building the community wants restored and building a super mosque. To make this comparison as some vaild argument is rank stupidity.
Its not what these people represent to me... Its that I know them!