Maui Is What Happens When You Elect Democrat Nature Worshippers

[T. A. Gardner]

Texas is in the middle of a heat wave. If our renewables fail to generate enough we don't have enough Fossil and Nuke generation to fill the demand.

Thank T. Boone Pickens for fucking the state with too much wind power...

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The electrical grid of Texas didn't fail.
Wind generators are useless in icing conditions.

Solar power is not used much in Texas. It is the most expensive method of generating electricity there is, watt for watt. It's piddle power.
Wind is the 2nd most expensive, and also piddle power.

You missed the point. QP claimed that "renewables" weren't the cause and in fact "saved" Texas during that cold snap. I demonstrated from the article HE linked that he was full of shit and his own source says they, like other systems failed in the extreme (for Texas) and unusual cold. The viability of wind and solar are a separate argument from that.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Austin, TX is mostly Democrats, dumbass. 'Green' energy like windmills and solar panels contribute very little to the power generating capacity of Texas, despite the blight and expense they produce across the landscape.

Actually, something like 25% of Texas power is wind, thanks to the early investments by T. Boone Pickens who then dumped his shares when he realized what a total loser wind generation was from the actual returns on investment he was getting. Now Texas is stuck with shitty wind projects that a idiot billionaire foisted on them.

 

[Into the Night]

The truth is the Renewables under performed in the winter storm.

Wind generators can't operate at all in icing conditions.

Solar generation was low

Very little of it in Texas.

and wind was light and many wind turbines had their blades ice up.

Wind speed is irrelevant. Icing conditions unbalances the propeller and so the machines must be feathered and locked.

Our fossil fuel generation also under-performed

Fossils aren't used as fuel.

some plants had icing pipes and gas producers had icing gas pipes which shut down delivery

Natural gas did have problems with delivery at a critical time. Unlike other places in colder climates, Texas doesn't bother to protect it's natural gas valves from the weather much.

gas producers depended on commercial electricity and did not have generator back up to keep natural gas flowing.

They did, and gas kept flowing (unless the line was plugged due to icing).

Residential gas use has precedence over power plants so the limited gas production went to Residential customers.. The storm was colder longer and more widespread than ANY storm in Texas history.

No, it wasn't. You forget about the winters of 1833 and 1899, when temperatures in some cities went as low as minus 23 deg F. Back then, of course, the Texas power grid was basically a nothing. Few houses in Texas had fireplaces, and a lot of people froze to death.

It exposed some weaknesses in the system. Those weaknesses are being addressed. Sometimes finding failure points require stressing the system.

It did. You are quite right, those weakness are being addressed.

 

[BidenPresident]

Evidence suggests the heartbreaking Maui wildfire was preventable. That should enrage the Democrat voters of Hawaii. I fear it will not.


This is the 21st century. We know how to do land management. We know how to prevent wildfires, or at least ensure they can be controlled and extinguished long before a Maui occurs. Sadly, we choose not to.

Actually…

It’s Democrats who choose not to.

You see, Democrats have become the equivalent of pagan sun worshippers. Nature has become their god. Therefore, in their pagan minds, human beings are nothing more than viruses, a threat to their god. This means that on their list of priorities, we humans come way behind the air, water, plants, animals, and even insects.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...s-when-you-elect-democrat-nature-worshippers/

Stupid, as usual.

And you get that people come to Hawaii for unspoiled nature.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There was no 'dense undergrowth'. Ever since the cane sugar production was destroyed by the federal government in favor of corn for ethanol subsidies, the cane fields were abandoned to the weeds.
The dry side of the island is now just try twigs and sticks (some of which is now burned). No 'dense undergrowth'.

Actually, there is. A number of non-native grasses were imported to provide feed for cattle on range land and these spread, particularly onto sugarcane and pineapple plantations when they were abandoned.

https://cms.ctahr.hawaii.edu/littonc/Research/Invasive-Grasses-Wildfire-Restoration

Ones like fountain grass, pampas grass, and guinea grass are particularly nasty for creating massive amounts of fuel for a wildfire. Worse, all will come back quickly and spread quickly after a wildfire burns them down to the ground. The fire provides both nutrients and gets rid of dead growth allowing new growth to blossom massively.

 

[Into the Night]

Stupid, as usual.

And you get that people come to Hawaii for unspoiled nature.

Hotels along the coastlines are 'unspoiled nature'???

 

[QP!]

You missed the point. QP claimed that "renewables" weren't the cause and in fact "saved" Texas during that cold snap. I demonstrated from the article HE linked that he was full of shit and his own source says they, like other systems failed in the extreme (for Texas) and unusual cold. The viability of wind and solar are a separate argument from that.

Quote me saying "Renewables were not the cause", as i did not say that. I did not suggest that. I did not think that. That is just lies and lack of comprehension from you, yet again.

It all failed but right derps ONLY blamed renewables while ignoring fossil fuels. But that was not the point of my post however which was to highlight it was a GOP state. So the GOP failed. I point that out to show the stupidity of trying to make these issues partisan as BOTH sides fail, regularly.

Renewables, ie battery tech is however making an impact for the future which is a seperate point i made, correctly.

 

[domer76]

I don't blame you for trying to get as far away from this Hawaii thing as quickly as possible

This Hawaii thing is no more or no less to me than any other natural disaster I see in this country almost every week. Funny though, usually FEMA is running to red states to bail their asses out.

If you wish to make disasters like this a partisan issue, we can do it all day.

We can start with who goes hat in hand to FEMA, screaming for funds. We can talk about Sandy, where conservatives tried to withhold funds to Blue states. On and on.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Quote me saying "Renewables were not the cause", as i did not say that. I did not suggest that. I did not think that. That is just lies and lack of comprehension from you, yet again.

It all failed but right derps ONLY blamed renewables while ignoring fossil fuels. But that was not the point of my post however which was to highlight it was a GOP state. So the GOP failed. I point that out to show the stupidity of trying to make these issues partisan as BOTH sides fail, regularly.

Renewables, ie battery tech is however making an impact for the future which is a seperate point i made, correctly.

Then what did you mean by this if not that which I claimed?

But lucky the LEFT and GREEN ENERGY is coming to the rescue!

Battery tech is a dead end. You cannot put enough batteries in place at an economical cost to keep the grid up in whole or large part for hours on end. It isn't happening. A kilowatt hour of batteries right now costs about $225 dollars.

A gigawatt hour of batteries at that rate would cost $2.25 million dollars. One gigawatt day of power would run about $54 million dollars. The Texas grid averages about 60,000 megawatts, or about 60 gigawatts. To supply say, 50% of that for a day with batteries would cost $16.2 billion dollars and that doesn't include the land, installation, or other infrastructure necessary to support that. It also doesn't include the extra generating capacity to charge the batteries.

It is undoable and that's why no one has done it, and no one will.

 

[Into the Night]

You missed the point. QP claimed that "renewables" weren't the cause and in fact "saved" Texas during that cold snap. I demonstrated from the article HE linked that he was full of shit and his own source says they, like other systems failed in the extreme (for Texas) and unusual cold. The viability of wind and solar are a separate argument from that.

The Texas grid didn't fail. What kept it running were the system operators. Nothing else.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, something like 25% of Texas power is wind, thanks to the early investments by T. Boone Pickens who then dumped his shares when he realized what a total loser wind generation was from the actual returns on investment he was getting. Now Texas is stuck with shitty wind projects that a idiot billionaire foisted on them.

This varies, of course, as these generators cannot run in icing conditions or in wind conditions outside their specification.

 

[Into the Night]

Actually, there is. A number of non-native grasses were imported to provide feed for cattle on range land and these spread, particularly onto sugarcane and pineapple plantations when they were abandoned.

https://cms.ctahr.hawaii.edu/littonc/Research/Invasive-Grasses-Wildfire-Restoration

Ones like fountain grass, pampas grass, and guinea grass are particularly nasty for creating massive amounts of fuel for a wildfire. Worse, all will come back quickly and spread quickly after a wildfire burns them down to the ground. The fire provides both nutrients and gets rid of dead growth allowing new growth to blossom massively.

Nope. No cattle in the Lahaina area. No grass in wild areas either. Just sticks and dead brush.

 

[Into the Night]

This Hawaii thing is no more or no less to me than any other natural disaster I see in this country almost every week. Funny though, usually FEMA is running to red states to bail their asses out.

If you wish to make disasters like this a partisan issue, we can do it all day.

We can start with who goes hat in hand to FEMA, screaming for funds. We can talk about Sandy, where conservatives tried to withhold funds to Blue states. On and on.

...and you show your absolute callousness to the people of Lahaina.

 

[Into the Night]

Quote me saying "Renewables were not the cause", as i did not say that. I did not suggest that. I did not think that. That is just lies and lack of comprehension from you, yet again.

Trying to deny your own posts won't work. ANYONE can go look them up.

It all failed but right derps ONLY blamed renewables while ignoring fossil fuels.

Fossils aren't used as fuel. Oil and natural gas are renewable fuels. Wind and solar are unreliable piddle power.

But that was not the point of my post however which was to highlight it was a GOP state.

Austin is mostly Democrats, twit.

So the GOP failed.

Austin is mostly Democrats, twit.

I point that out to show the stupidity of trying to make these issues partisan as BOTH sides fail, regularly.

Austin is mostly Democrats, twit.

Renewables, ie battery tech is however making an impact for the future which is a seperate point i made, correctly.

TANSTAAFL. Batteries must be charged, twit. The Li-ion battery still produces the same joules per mole of lithium as always. That's chemistry, twit, which you are ignoring.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Nope. No cattle in the Lahaina area. No grass in wild areas either. Just sticks and dead brush.

Grass spreads. The ones I listed, just like Buffel Grass in Arizona, spread after being introduced to Hawaii. There are plenty of very good sites on invasive species and plants, by state, and Hawaii is no different. The Hawaiian ones are very clear that this was a known problem and wildfire danger.

It isn't like this is the first time Maui has experienced a wildfire that burned down homes either. The Maui West fire in 2018 burned 21 houses.

Wind-whipped fire ravages Lahaina hillsides, destroys 21 structures
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018...ges-lahaina-hillsides-destroys-21-structures/

Maui fires burned 25,000 acres in 2019
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/06/hawaii-news/maui-fires-burned-25000-acres-in-2019/

So, the danger was known, as was the primary causes.

Lahaina was considered extremely vulnerable to a wildfire too. So, none of this came out of the blue. It wasn't climate change, it was inaction, lethargy, and incompetence that led to disaster. But we won't hear that from the talking heads on television or in the MSM because that doesn't fit the narrative they want to present.

 

[Into the Night]

Grass spreads. The ones I listed, just like Buffel Grass in Arizona, spread after being introduced to Hawaii. There are plenty of very good sites on invasive species and plants, by state, and Hawaii is no different. The Hawaiian ones are very clear that this was a known problem and wildfire danger.

It isn't like this is the first time Maui has experienced a wildfire that burned down homes either. The Maui West fire in 2018 burned 21 houses.

Wind-whipped fire ravages Lahaina hillsides, destroys 21 structures
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018...ges-lahaina-hillsides-destroys-21-structures/

Maui fires burned 25,000 acres in 2019
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/01/06/hawaii-news/maui-fires-burned-25000-acres-in-2019/

So, the danger was known, as was the primary causes.

Lahaina was considered extremely vulnerable to a wildfire too. So, none of this came out of the blue. It wasn't climate change, it was inaction, lethargy, and incompetence that led to disaster. But we won't hear that from the talking heads on television or in the MSM because that doesn't fit the narrative they want to present.

It wasn't grass either.

How do you expect anyone to stop lines from being blown down in high wind?
How do you expect anyone to stop hurricane force winds from fanning wildfire?

What was the 'incompetence'? Why do you feel the need to blame somebody?

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Evidence suggests the heartbreaking Maui wildfire was preventable. That should enrage the Democrat voters of Hawaii. I fear it will not.


This is the 21st century. We know how to do land management. We know how to prevent wildfires, or at least ensure they can be controlled and extinguished long before a Maui occurs. Sadly, we choose not to.

Actually…

It’s Democrats who choose not to.

You see, Democrats have become the equivalent of pagan sun worshippers. Nature has become their god. Therefore, in their pagan minds, human beings are nothing more than viruses, a threat to their god. This means that on their list of priorities, we humans come way behind the air, water, plants, animals, and even insects.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...s-when-you-elect-democrat-nature-worshippers/

At least we have vols to give us the psychotic perspective.

 

[QP!]

Then what did you mean by this if not that which I claimed?



Battery tech is a dead end. You cannot put enough batteries in place at an economical cost to keep the grid up in whole or large part for hours on end. It isn't happening. A kilowatt hour of batteries right now costs about $225 dollars.

A gigawatt hour of batteries at that rate would cost $2.25 million dollars. One gigawatt day of power would run about $54 million dollars. The Texas grid averages about 60,000 megawatts, or about 60 gigawatts. To supply say, 50% of that for a day with batteries would cost $16.2 billion dollars and that doesn't include the land, installation, or other infrastructure necessary to support that. It also doesn't include the extra generating capacity to charge the batteries.

It is undoable and that's why no one has done it, and no one will.

It means what i said. Speaking to the future.

You and i have had this chat about your abject stupidity over new and emerging technologies.

You are stuck ALWAYS trying to act like technologies do not improve and thus the cars of the 1930's are what we are stuck with. They are not better then so they will never improve in the future.

I explain to you over and over how stupid and naive your view is but you keep repeating it. We are seeing billions upon billions in VC funds going into all sorts of improvements in battery tech and we are just at the front of the curve in seeing the first major new advancements.

But you will keep repeating all the top VC's and scientists are wrong as YOU know they are just wish casting and nothing more will come from it. That is because you are dumb.

You have an opinion. I get it. But it is a dumb one. We have never had such a mass adoption wave (ICE vehicle, Computer chips, computer itself, etc,) where mass production and adoption did not lead to massive breakthru's in tech and efficiency so if you want to be the guy betting against it happening in battery tech, fine. Just do not state as if you are an authority, as you are not. You are a derp.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

It wasn't grass either.

Then why do the local papers, and experts on Hawaiian wildfires say it was?

How Swaths of Invasive Grass Made Maui’s Fires So Devastating
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...ss-made-mauis-fires-so-devastating-180982729/

Invasive species can cause native ecosystems to go up in smoke
https://www.mauinews.com/news/commu...an-cause-native-ecosystems-to-go-up-in-smoke/

Invasive firestarter: How non-native grasses turned Hawaii into a tinderbox
https://phys.org/news/2023-08-invasive-firestarter-non-native-grasses-hawaii.html

Invasive grasses change landscape structure and fire behaviour in Hawaii
https://www.fs.usda.gov/psw/publications/ff/psw_2014_ellsworth001.pdf

The experts say you are full of shit. Once ignited, invasive grass species allowed the fire to burn hot and spread fast.