Lybia produces 3%....

[Cancel 2016.2]

if a speculator (one who is neither a supplier or a user) is involved in the commodities market there is a high chance the user is buying from a speculator rather than a supplier

Over 90% of futures contracts never actually result in oil changing hands.

You seem to be greatly confused as you keep referring to speculators in a manner which would indicate they are some sort of middle man.

EVERY SINGLE purchaser and seller of a futures contract, whether they are a supplier, user or otherwise is a SPECULATOR. Period.

Every single one locks in a contract at a level they think is either too high (seller) or too low (buyer) relative to future expectations.

and, if speculators are involved, that will increase the volatility....isn't it obvious that is bad for both suppliers and users?....

Again, you seem to have some weird misconception about 'speculators'. All buyers and sellers are speculating on future prices and locking in contracts based on their personal expectations.

under my rationale no one should be allowed to buy or sell anything in the commodities market. unless they are suppliers or users....though to be honest, any futures market is not a good thing for consumers in any field whether it be bonds, mortgages, commodities, you name it....

which is quite simply a retarded suggestion. Do my clients not have the right to hedge their buying power and the effects changes in energy prices might have on their portfolios?

Your judgment on futures markets is nothing short of absurd. They are absolutely good for consumers in general.

you're trying to prove my point, aren't you....I thought you were arguing against me.....

I am absolutely arguing against your main point. Speculation being driven by uncertainty can indeed create more volatility, but again, that is not a terrible thing. It can cause pricing well above or BELOW fair value, but that is inherent in the market. You can't regulate uncertainty. It is absurd to think you can.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Over 90% of futures contracts never actually result in oil changing hands.

agreed, they just result in the price going up....

You seem to be greatly confused as you keep referring to speculators in a manner which would indicate they are some sort of middle man.

in the sense that they hold ownership of the futures contract for some period of time between the supplier and the user, they obviously are.....if a user is not buying the commodity from the producer he is buying it from a __________ (fill in the blank)......

EVERY SINGLE purchaser and seller of a futures contract, whether they are a supplier, user or otherwise is a SPECULATOR. Period.

sorry no......there are users, there are suppliers and there are speculators who are neither.....those who invest in commodities contracts for the sole purpose of profiting on the holding of the contract for a brief period of time but who did not produce the commodity or intend to use the commodity....

which is quite simply a retarded suggestion. Do my clients not have the right to hedge their buying power and the effects changes in energy prices might have on their portfolios?

if they are not the users of the commodity, they currently have that right, but they should not.....all they accomplish is increasing the costs of the consumer....

Your judgment on futures markets is nothing short of absurd. They are absolutely good for consumers in general.

then you should no problem describing that "good".....I would love to hear it.....

Speculation being driven by uncertainty can indeed create more volatility, but again, that is not a terrible thing. It can cause pricing well above or BELOW fair value, but that is inherent in the market.

of course it's inherent in the market, because speculation fucks up the market......how can altering the price either above or below fair market be a good thing for anyone?.....markets should derive the fair market, not obliterate it......

 

[Lowaicue]

you would know about walking home, most of us drive.

I drove for many years before I came to my senses.
You drive - you pollute.
I walk - I keep healthy (well, relatively!)

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Amazing how you occasionally forget your meds and start babbling as if you actually know something. I notice you can't fault what I stated. Sorry if some honest critical thinking disturbs your world view, but no one said life was easy. Carry on.

Your limosine liberal rant with no basis in reality was a great example of a talking point by some liberal arts grad that can barely spell economics. It was hillarious. Now go step over a homeless person to spit on someone wearing fur.

You're still blowing smoke, Top. You can't logically or factually fault me here, so you just bluff and bluster. Carry on and half the last word, if it makes you feel better.

 

[Beefy]

As per usual, Top crushes his opponents monster truck style.

Pure, unadulterated, unequivocal, undeniable destruction.

Annihilation.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
The Super Freak-ing Dunce strikes again!

Go back and read your own words, you Super Freak-ing buffoon....YOU said that corporations have nothing to do with oil prices.

WTF do you think Exxon Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Chevron, and Conoco-Phillips are, bunky? And if it hasn't sunk in yet, take a gander at this, my Super Freak-ing Dunce http://ir.exxonmobil.com/phoenix.zht...ventID=3646666

Soros DOES NOT sit on the board of any of the forementioned corporations, does he bunky? I never said that Soros DIDN'T make his money off of a system that is broken, did I? Remember, my initial statement was that speculation should be better regulated, NOT eliminated. If YOU weren't such a Super Freak-ing neocon tool hell bent on "gett'in the libbies", you'd have noted that.

And if you can prove that Media Matters is funded by the above oil corporations, please provide it. Carry on, bunky

.

Who gives a shit about Soros being on a board of directors? That has NOTHING to do with your absurd comments.

All one has to do is follow the chronology of the posts to see that it was YOU my Super Freak-ing Dunce, who didn't get got my reference to Soros being the neocon boogeyman for all things wrong. Stop being a wussy and just own up to being wrong, you Super Freak-ing Dunce...it won't kill you.

You said 'who controls oil prices besides OPEC' and then proclaimed 'it aint Soros or media matters'.

I then laughed and mocked you given Soros made his billions on speculation on oil and currency prices.

And you were a Super Freak-ing Ass to do so, because I NEVER stated anything to the contrary. As I said above, YOU were too Super Freak-ing Stupid to get my reference to Soros....and since I've already explained such, you're now just being Super Freak-ing stubborn to the point of insipidness.

He has almost a billion invested in PetroBrasil right now.... you know... that company that just happened to greatly benefit when Obama shut down oil production in the Gulf?

Ahhh, and there are NO OTHER oil investors (corporate or individual, liberal or conservative) that benefit from the shut down of off shore oil drilling? As I said, folks, Super Freak-ing Dunces treat Soros like the boogeyman, yet deny like hell basic facts of reality, like Conoco, Exxon, Hess, etc., having serious collusion with OPEC decisions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-j-learsy/exxon-rakes-in-record-116_b_84756.html

As for the corporations.... again... they do not control oil prices. Period. Oil prices are set based on two things.

1) Supply/Demand equation
2) Expectations of future supply/demand equation (this is where speculators like Soros move the market)

Exxon, COP, BP, etc.... do not set the price.

You are one Super Freak-ing willfully ignorant neocon toadie.

Mobil-Exxon, Conoco, Hess ARE CORPORATIONS, you stupe! If not, then they've got websites that are LYING. And yes, they sure as hell do sit down with OPEC and say, "yeah, we can live with that".

The oil gluts and shortages during the 1970's and 80's should have taught even Super Freak-ing Dunces like you that what's in the barrel ain't necessarily what's causing the rise and fall of prices. Remember, my Super Freak-ing Dunce, YOU defended the wild speculation that has caused more problems than the actual supply and demand. So you can repeat your myopic mantras all you want, but the WHOLE story will always be your undoing.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
And what was the price drop at the gas pump, my Super Freak-ing BS artist? What was it before the barrel price was $148, during and after the drop to $37 a barrel (don't forget the time frame). You like to throw around numbers, how about some specifics? Shouldn't be too hard if you're really doing some honest research. YOU made the statements, the burden of proof is on you, bunky. Put up or shut up.

You truly are a fucking idiot. Learn to use the quote boxes correctly or simply type your entire response at the end.

1) Speculation is not 'out of control'

2) We have been talking about oil prices specifically. I cannot help but notice you couldn't simply address the fact that you are batshit crazy to pretend oil prices only dropped 'slightly'. Instead you try to spin this to talk about gasoline prices. but if you are so pathetically ignorant that you want to get mocked with gasoline prices too.....

In November of 2007, gasoline prices were at $3 per gallon

In June of 2008 when oil peaked, gasoline prices were just above $4 per gallon

By the end of 2008, when oil had fallen back to about $37/brl.... the national average on gasoline prices was $1.80

Now... with regards to the original topic of how speculation effects pricing, speculation occurs on the OIL prices, not gasoline. Which is why I provided you with examples of real data to dispel your stupidity. But that wasn't enough for you. You had to compound your stupidity with ignorance. Now you have had that mocked as well.

Care to try for a third?

Care to get your SuperFreak-ing head out of Limbaugh's ass and start dealing with reality, will ya? You contention was that speculation is NOT out of control does not meet the facts discussed in my link earlier...you can ignore that all you want, but it won't go away. You provided NO "data" outside of your own assertions.

Opec drops the barrel price and after a YEAR of gouging the public, the price magically drops the gas pump price and we're all to be grateful? And there was NO speculation during this time?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Where did I champion Soros, you Super Freak-ing liar? Obviously, I have to dumb everything down for you....I used the Soros because neocon toadies just love to blame him for everything under sun, along with Media Matters.

Evidently folks, our Super Freak-ing Dunce is a little slow in the reading comprehension department....either that or he purposely likes to exaggerate (or lie) about what others write.

retard.... you stated clearly...

'who controls oil besides OPEC.... it ain't George Soros and media matters'

It was YOU who brought Soros into the conversation. It was you who implied he had nothing to do with oil prices.

I laughed and mocked you for that given that Soros is one of the biggest individual speculators in the market. He made his billions speculating on currency and commodities (including oil).

You are truly a Super Freak-ing Dunce. I used Soros and Media Matters to ridicule the consistent neocon pundits and parrots. ballyhoo that both are the root of all evil in the USA.

And like an typical blinders wearing neocon numbskull, you followed right in that vein like a Super Freak-ing Dunce. I already addressed your error TWICE. Get your shit together, bunky

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

.





You are one Super Freak-ing willfully ignorant neocon toadie.

Mobil-Exxon, Conoco, Hess ARE CORPORATIONS, you stupe! If not, then they've got websites that are LYING. And yes, they sure as hell do sit down with OPEC and say, "yeah, we can live with that".

The oil gluts and shortages during the 1970's and 80's should have taught even Super Freak-ing Dunces like you that what's in the barrel ain't necessarily what's causing the rise and fall of prices. Remember, my Super Freak-ing Dunce, YOU defended the wild speculation that has caused more problems than the actual supply and demand. So you can repeat your myopic mantras all you want, but the WHOLE story will always be your undoing.

Still too fucking retarded to figure out how to use quote boxes?

Fine. Then I shall only respond to whatever happens to be here when I hit quote.

I have not once argued that they are not corporations you fucking half wit. They do not sit down with OPEC and confirm whether they like the price of oil. That is quite absurd. If they did, do you really think they would have agreed to the low price levels of the 1980's and 1990's?

What are you talking about with regards to the 'whole story'??? Are you even comprehending what I write? I have said time and again what causes oil prices to spike rapidly or fall rapidly. It is due to periods of uncertainty about future supply/demand. What part of that is too complex for your tiny little mind to handle?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You are truly a Super Freak-ing Dunce. I used Soros and Media Matters to ridicule the consistent neocon pundits and parrots. ballyhoo that both are the root of all evil in the USA.

And like an typical blinders wearing neocon numbskull, you followed right in that vein like a Super Freak-ing Dunce. I already addressed your error TWICE. Get your shit together, bunky

No moron. You stated CLEARLY that it wasn't Soros controlling the prices of oil and that it was the speculators. You CLEARLY had no fucking clue how Soros made his billions. You had NO CLUE he was big player within oil even today.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Care to get your SuperFreak-ing head out of Limbaugh's ass and start dealing with reality, will ya? You contention was that speculation is NOT out of control does not meet the facts discussed in my link earlier...you can ignore that all you want, but it won't go away. You provided NO "data" outside of your own assertions.

Opec drops the barrel price and after a YEAR of gouging the public, the price magically drops the gas pump price and we're all to be grateful? And there was NO speculation during this time?

You are truly fucking ignorant. I stated clearly that it was speculation that drove up prices beyond fair value in 2008 and speculation that in turn drove it back down at the end of 2008 below fair value. What part of that gave you the impression that I stated there was 'no speculation'.

As I clearly stated and you clearly were too ignorant to understand, speculation creates greater volatility as uncertainty in the future supply/demand equation increases. Are you capable of comprehending this simple little fact moron?????

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal

You are one Super Freak-ing willfully ignorant neocon toadie.

Mobil-Exxon, Conoco, Hess ARE CORPORATIONS, you stupe! If not, then they've got websites that are LYING. And yes, they sure as hell do sit down with OPEC and say, "yeah, we can live with that".

The oil gluts and shortages during the 1970's and 80's should have taught even Super Freak-ing Dunces like you that what's in the barrel ain't necessarily what's causing the rise and fall of prices. Remember, my Super Freak-ing Dunce, YOU defended the wild speculation that has caused more problems than the actual supply and demand. So you can repeat your myopic mantras all you want, but the WHOLE story will always be your undoing.

Still too fucking retarded to figure out how to use quote boxes? If that's all you've got to bitch about, then you've got nothing but hot air as usual, my Super Freaking Dunce.
Fine. Then I shall only respond to whatever happens to be here when I hit quote.

Translation: our Super Freaking intellectual coward READ the entire post, but doesn't have the brains or the stones to go point for point, so he cops out.
I have not once argued that they are not corporations you fucking half wit.
They do not sit down with OPEC and confirm whether they like the price of oil. That is quite absurd. If they did, do you really think they would have agreed to the low price levels of the 1980's and 1990's?

The chronology of the posts clearly shows this Super Freak-ing LYING POS stating at least twice that oil companies are not corporations. And since the American oil companies gouged the American public with "oil shortages" for a period of time, they could jolly well afford to drop the prices for period TO AVOID AN ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE, as you sure as hell can't make money if everyone can't afford your product, now can you bunky. (Jeez, these fucking stupid neocon toadies just can't think beyond the mantras). Case in point....gas prices were slowly climbing BEFORE Libya became a problem, don't cha know!

What are you talking about with regards to the 'whole story'??? Are you even comprehending what I write? I have said time and again what causes oil prices to spike rapidly or fall rapidly. It is due to periods of uncertainty about future supply/demand. What part of that is too complex for your tiny little mind to handle?

Once again, our Super Freak-ing Dunce gives us another version of the SOS he's been shoveling. That's the neocon problem....avoid and deny any information that contradicts their belief system and repeat their dogma ad nauseum.

FYI:

The Push for Oil Regulation

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91639443

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Care to get your SuperFreak-ing head out of Limbaugh's ass and start dealing with reality, will ya? You contention was that speculation is NOT out of control does not meet the facts discussed in my link earlier...you can ignore that all you want, but it won't go away. You provided NO "data" outside of your own assertions.

Opec drops the barrel price and after a YEAR of gouging the public, the price magically drops the gas pump price and we're all to be grateful? And there was NO speculation during this time?

You are truly fucking ignorant. I stated clearly that it was speculation that drove up prices beyond fair value in 2008 and speculation that in turn drove it back down at the end of 2008 below fair value. What part of that gave you the impression that I stated there was 'no speculation'.

As I clearly stated and you clearly were too ignorant to understand, speculation creates greater volatility as uncertainty in the future supply/demand equation increases. Are you capable of comprehending this simple little fact moron?????

As the chronology of the posts shows, YOU, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, were all against MY statement that speculation was out of control and needs better, tighter regulation. Now during the coarse of exchange, you try to change your tune.

You can't have it both ways, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, You either acknowledge how excessive speculation as I've previously described has been a major factor in our absurd gas pump prices over the years or you don't. You either acknowledge that tighter regulation is needed or your happy as a clam in beer with the status quo. Any system created by people can subsequently be regulated by people.

Now, please spare us all with your lame attempts to weasel out admitting I was right from the jump on this....the chronology of the posts won't let you get away with your Super Freak-ing lies, denials, distortions or double talk.

 

[Topspin]

taichi you are the reason dems are fading so fast.
Why, complete and utter incompetence on business matters.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Once again, our Super Freak-ing Dunce gives us another version of the SOS he's been shoveling. That's the neocon problem....avoid and deny any information that contradicts their belief system and repeat their dogma ad nauseum.

FYI:

The Push for Oil Regulation

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91639443

No moron.... I am simply getting tired of cutting and pasting your responses. Learn to use the fucking quote boxes or simply put your entire response after the quote box that automatically is there.

As for your 'points'.... they have been completely debunked time and time again. You are just too fucking ignorant to comprehend that fact.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

As the chronology of the posts shows, YOU, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, were all against MY statement that speculation was out of control and needs better, tighter regulation. Now during the coarse of exchange, you try to change your tune.

You can't have it both ways, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, You either acknowledge how excessive speculation as I've previously described has been a major factor in our absurd gas pump prices over the years or you don't. You either acknowledge that tighter regulation is needed or your happy as a clam in beer with the status quo. Any system created by people can subsequently be regulated by people.

Now, please spare us all with your lame attempts to weasel out admitting I was right from the jump on this....the chronology of the posts won't let you get away with your Super Freak-ing lies, denials, distortions or double talk.

IF you had more than one brain cell, you might be able to comprehend what was written in the 'chronology' of posts.

you can't seem to comprehend the fact that it is NATURAL to have higher levels of speculation as UNCERTAINTY in the future increases.

You bitch and whine and moan about 'excessive' speculation and its effect on oil (and thus subsequently on gas prices) but you continue to highlight only the short term periods where the speculation pushes prices up. You want to 'regulate' something and yet you have NO FUCKING CLUE how you would go about it. Tell us..... HOW would you regulate speculation? WHAT are your criteria? Tell us what arbitrary number you have stuck in your head. Tell us why YOU should decide for others how they hedge the uncertainty. The only way to lower volatility related to speculation is to reduce the UNCERTAINTY. You fucking ignorant piece of shit.

You continue to ignore the prolonged period where the speculators kept oil prices (and thus gasoline prices as well) artificially low for DECADES. Why is that? Why is that the common mantra of the left? Bitch about speculation when it drives prices too high for a few months, but say nothing when it keeps prices too low for decades. Why is that?

 

[Bonestorm]

IF you had more than one brain cell, you might be able to comprehend what was written in the 'chronology' of posts.

you can't seem to comprehend the fact that it is NATURAL to have higher levels of speculation as UNCERTAINTY in the future increases.

You bitch and whine and moan about 'excessive' speculation and its effect on oil (and thus subsequently on gas prices) but you continue to highlight only the short term periods where the speculation pushes prices up. You want to 'regulate' something and yet you have NO FUCKING CLUE how you would go about it. Tell us..... HOW would you regulate speculation? WHAT are your criteria? Tell us what arbitrary number you have stuck in your head. Tell us why YOU should decide for others how they hedge the uncertainty. The only way to lower volatility related to speculation is to reduce the UNCERTAINTY. You fucking ignorant piece of shit.

You continue to ignore the prolonged period where the speculators kept oil prices (and thus gasoline prices as well) artificially low for DECADES. Why is that? Why is that the common mantra of the left? Bitch about speculation when it drives prices too high for a few months, but say nothing when it keeps prices too low for decades. Why is that?

You are a ray of sunshine.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The chronology of the posts clearly shows this Super Freak-ing LYING POS stating at least twice that oil companies are not corporations. And since the American oil companies gouged the American public with "oil shortages" for a period of time, they could jolly well afford to drop the prices for period TO AVOID AN ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE, as you sure as hell can't make money if everyone can't afford your product, now can you bunky. (Jeez, these fucking stupid neocon toadies just can't think beyond the mantras). Case in point....gas prices were slowly climbing BEFORE Libya became a problem, don't cha know!

Link us up Taichi.... since you are too ignorant to use quote boxes... just tell us the post numbers where I stated oil companies are not corporations.

Then show us where American Oil companies gouged us with shortages.... surely you have examples that show where the American Oil companies deliberately cut supply levels. Do show us what you are referring to.... if you can.

Note to taichi.... as economic activity picks up, DEMAND picks up.... as demand increases, PRICES increase. That said, gasoline prices only ticked up about $.15 on average in the US prior to Tunisia, Egypt etc....

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

You are a ray of sunshine.

you are a douche bag

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
As the chronology of the posts shows, YOU, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, were all against MY statement that speculation was out of control and needs better, tighter regulation. Now during the coarse of exchange, you try to change your tune.

You can't have it both ways, my Super Freak-ingly dishonest clown, You either acknowledge how excessive speculation as I've previously described has been a major factor in our absurd gas pump prices over the years or you don't. You either acknowledge that tighter regulation is needed or your happy as a clam in beer with the status quo. Any system created by people can subsequently be regulated by people.

Now, please spare us all with your lame attempts to weasel out admitting I was right from the jump on this....the chronology of the posts won't let you get away with your Super Freak-ing lies, denials, distortions or double talk.

IF you had more than one brain cell, you might be able to comprehend what was written in the 'chronology' of posts.

you can't seem to comprehend the fact that it is NATURAL to have higher levels of speculation as UNCERTAINTY in the future increases.


And as with all failed neocon parrots, our Super Freak-ing Dunce just keeps repeating the SOS that was previously addressed during our exchanges. I've personally stated and provided links to the FACT that I was referring to the EXCESSIVE speculation that is based on small groups of powerful market players "speculating" on someone elses "speculation" and NOT on the reality of the commodity and it's viability/mobility. Our Super Freak-ing corporate toadie is just being dishonest as usual in pretending that his assertion was never discussed rationally and logically.

You bitch and whine and moan about 'excessive' speculation and its effect on oil (and thus subsequently on gas prices) but you continue to highlight only the short term periods where the speculation pushes prices up.

Another lie by our Super Freak-ing intellectually bankrupt toadie here. I pointed out to periods during the 1970's and 1980's as well as links to current discussions....our SF'ing liar here kept trying to pretend that what he believes is fact DESPITE evidence to the contrary. The chronology of the posts backs up my statement here.

You want to 'regulate' something and yet you have NO FUCKING CLUE how you would go about it. Tell us..... HOW would you regulate speculation? WHAT are your criteria? Tell us what arbitrary number you have stuck in your head. Tell us why YOU should decide for others how they hedge the uncertainty. The only way to lower volatility related to speculation is to reduce the UNCERTAINTY. You fucking ignorant piece of shit.

I supplied links to discussions on the subject. Apparently, our Super Freak-ing Dunce is not only in denial of the negative aspects of out of control market speculation, but he ignores the links I provide and now wants ME to solve the problem. Since our Super Freak-ing Fraud is NO financial expert, I find it interesting that he wants me to be one. Bottom line: I read and follow the news like everyone else, then I do a little honest research. I found this last month:

http://www.heatingoil.com/blog/cftc-moves-oil-speculation-limits-objections-wall-street0114/

Since the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 opened up investment in commodities to a much wider variety of firms and individuals, speculative interests (investors who buy and sell commodity-based financial products for profit, with no interest in the physical commodities) have crowded into the commodities market in record numbers. The staggering increase in crude oil and heating oil prices over the last decade has prompted many companies and market commentators to identify ballooning speculation on commodities (especially energy commodities—crude oil is the most frequently traded commodity in the world) as a major cause of those price increases. More strict limits on how many commodity-based financial products huge speculators like hedge funds buy and sell, reformers argue, would help tamp down price volatility in oil and other commodity markets and blunt price spikes not related to supply and demand factors. Numerous heating oil industry groups have been outspoken supporters of position limits, saying they would go a long way toward streamlining dealers’ hedging activities (commodity investment strategies used to manage operating costs) and lowering heating oil prices for consumers.

But hedge funds and other major investment institutions have strongly and consistently opposed the limits, claiming they would excessively restrict free market activities. In response to the most recent progress toward implementing position limits, two financial industry groups expressed determined resistance to the rules, calling them “not appropriate.” It should be noted that position limits would almost certainly cut into the profits of major speculators and the markets they trade on by regulating trading activity.


You continue to ignore the prolonged period where the speculators kept oil prices (and thus gasoline prices as well) artificially low for DECADES.


Why is that? Why is that the common mantra of the left? Bitch about speculation when it drives prices too high for a few months, but say nothing when it keeps prices too low for decades. Why is that?

You keep making that claim, yet you can't prove it beyond your own supposition and conjecture. Maybe you forgot that OPEC played a major part in those low oil prices AFTER a declared "shortage" that caused a gouging at the oil pump (the glut/shortage dance)...a gouging that played well with the speculators on Wall St.....VERY similar to the current rising in gas prices BEFORE Libya went crazy, and the subsequent panic speculation that's jacking prices towards $4 a gallon DESPITE THE FACT that Saudi Arabia said they would cover the difference of Libya's 3% contribution.