Koch to Hayek: Use Social Security!
- Thread starter christiefan915
- Start date
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Guns Guns Guns
Guest
Good question.
Lots of Americans bought health coverage from insurance companies, only to be dropped or have their treatment denied when they filed claims.
By opposing health care reform, aren't you saying that's OK and should continue?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
So now you want to change the subject and divert the conversation to something entirely different? Okay, but christie may not like you blowing up her thread!
When have I opposed health care reforms? When have I ever said there didn't need to be any reforms in the system? I am opposed to Obamacare, not ALL health care reform! Try to comprehend that, pinhead!
christiefan915
Catalyst
Hayek was a professor so he had an option before 1983. Apparently you haven't read the entire thread. He was eligible for Medicaid in 1973 because he opted into the system. He preached against social programs and supported free-market capitalism. He chose to contribute to a system that he had philosophical differences with.
"Today, about 4 percent of workers do not pay into Social Security. Most of these are state and local government employees like state workers and teachers in areas that opted out of Social Security before that option was ended in 1983."
Read more: Who is exempt from social security taxes and how - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/tax/0hbxp-exempt-social-security-taxes-how.html#ixzz1ZYDEBQNj
Before 1983.
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Guns Guns Guns
Guest
Maybe you should read the OP if you think the thread's not about government health coverage.
Here are some of the provisions in the law you mis-label 'ObamaCare', that you admit opposing:
The Affordable Care Act ensures your right to appeal health insurance plan decisions--to ask that your plan reconsider its decision to deny payment for a service or treatment. New rules that apply to health plans created after March 23, 2010 spell out how your plan must handle your appeal (usually called an “internal appeal”). If your plan still denies payment after considering your appeal, the law permits you to have an independent review organization decide whether to uphold or overturn the plan’s decision. This final check is often referred to as an “external review.”
The Affordable Care Act prohibits health plans from putting a lifetime dollar limit on most benefits you receive. The law also restricts and phases out the annual dollar limits a health plan can place on most of your benefits and does away with these limits entirely in 2014.
The Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan makes health coverage available to you if you are a U.S. citizen or reside here legally, you have been denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition, and you’ve been uninsured for at least six months.
http://www.healthcare.gov/
Please explain why you oppose these provisions.
When you reply, remember to refer to the law as 'socialist' at least once.
Don't forget to use lots of capital letters, exclamation points, and refer to anyone who doesn't agree with you as a 'pinhead'.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I still don't understand what was unethical or hypocritical about any of this. If he had OPTED OUT and then Koch told him to apply for benefits anyway... maybe that would make sense... but he OPTED IN... he paid IN to it! You understand that he paid his money INTO the program, right? So, shouldn't he be entitled to benefits? Isn't that kinda the idea when you OPT IN to something?
Look dipshit, I am going to make this as simple as humanly possible for you.
If you can't understand this, you likely do not breathe un-asisted.
Cock and Hayek are BOTH opposed to the institution known as Social Security.
Yet when it suits them, they use it. Get it?
hy·poc·ri·sy
noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\
plural hy·poc·ri·sies
Definition of HYPOCRISY
1
: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2
: an act or instance of hypocrisy
See hypocrisy defined for English-language learners »
See hypocrisy defined for kids »
Examples of HYPOCRISY
Middle English ypocrisie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, from Greek hypokrisis act of playing a part on the stage, hypocrisy, from hypokrinesthai to answer, act on the stage, from hypo- + krinein to decide — more at certain First Known Use: 13th century
If you can't understand this, you likely do not breathe un-asisted.
Cock and Hayek are BOTH opposed to the institution known as Social Security.
Yet when it suits them, they use it. Get it?
hy·poc·ri·sy
noun \hi-ˈpä-krə-sē also hī-\
plural hy·poc·ri·sies
Definition of HYPOCRISY
1
: a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2
: an act or instance of hypocrisy
See hypocrisy defined for English-language learners »See hypocrisy defined for kids »
Examples of HYPOCRISY
- When his private letters were made public, they revealed his hypocrisy.
- the hypocrisy of people who say one thing but do another
- Teenagers often have a keen awareness of their parents' hypocrisies.
Middle English ypocrisie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, from Greek hypokrisis act of playing a part on the stage, hypocrisy, from hypokrinesthai to answer, act on the stage, from hypo- + krinein to decide — more at certain First Known Use: 13th century
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Guns Guns Guns
Guest
Mark Ames, who has been doggedly on the trail of the Koch brothers, found a delicious failure to live up to his oft-repeated standard of conduct by a god in the libertarian pantheon, Friedrich Hayek.
And this fall from grace was encouraged one of the chief promoters of extreme right wing ideas in the US, Charles Koch.
Bear in mind that Charles Koch has not merely promoted libertarian ideas generally but in particular founded the Cato Institute, which has done more than any other single organization to wage war on Social Security.
Koch wanted Hayek to come to the US in 1973 to become a “distinguished senior scholar” at the Institute for Human Studies, which Koch quickly made into a libertarian citadel.
Hayek initially turned the opportunity down, saying he had just had an operation, which made him particularly aware of the dangers of falling ill abroad.
Austria had close to universal health care; Hayek’s comment strongly suggests he took advantage of it.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...-rand-as-a-hypocritical-user-of-medicare.html
And this fall from grace was encouraged one of the chief promoters of extreme right wing ideas in the US, Charles Koch.
Bear in mind that Charles Koch has not merely promoted libertarian ideas generally but in particular founded the Cato Institute, which has done more than any other single organization to wage war on Social Security.
Koch wanted Hayek to come to the US in 1973 to become a “distinguished senior scholar” at the Institute for Human Studies, which Koch quickly made into a libertarian citadel.
Hayek initially turned the opportunity down, saying he had just had an operation, which made him particularly aware of the dangers of falling ill abroad.
Austria had close to universal health care; Hayek’s comment strongly suggests he took advantage of it.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011...-rand-as-a-hypocritical-user-of-medicare.html
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
The Affordable Care Act ensures your right to appeal health insurance plan decisions.
This is a "right" you already had. Any dispute with ANY insurance company, can be submitted to your state insurance commissioner for review. What Obamacare introduces is another redundant layer of federal bureaucracy, which ultimately costs the consumer more in premiums.
The Affordable Care Act prohibits health plans from putting a lifetime dollar limit on most benefits you receive.
So regardless of how little you may have paid in, your healthcare becomes the golden egg goose? Again, this provision merely pushes the cost of health care premiums UP! It opens the door to rampant abuse, which the cost of, has to be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher premiums. Money doesn't grow on trees or magically appear in bank accounts of rich people, it has to come from somewhere. If there is no limit on benefits, and people are welcome to take as much as they want, the system will ultimately fail.
The Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan makes health coverage available to you if you are a U.S. citizen or reside here legally, you have been denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition, and you’ve been uninsured for at least six months.
A pre-existing condition is a condition that already exists at the time you purchase health insurance. Now, INSURANCE is a measured gamble on the part of the insurer and insured. What if you could go to Vegas, and play the games without risk of ever losing money? Wouldn't that be awesome? You just go to the craps table and roll the dice, if you win... they have to pay you... if you lose, you keep rolling. This is the lunatic system you've established with Obamacare. The insurance company doesn't have a choice, they have to accept your condition and cover treatment of it, and they can't deny your coverage. Again... this provision simply drives health care insurance premiums through the roof, because money doesn't grow on trees, it has to come from somewhere.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, I don't get it. First of all, I don't think you are being honest. I don't believe these men are opposed to the 'institution' known as Social Security (is this an institution now?) I believe, if they are conservatives, they think Social Security needs reforming. Just because they are opposed to the way the current system is operated, doesn't disqualify them from receiving benefits they paid for, does it? I don't agree with paying high property taxes, I lobby politically for lower taxes, but if my city council is going to debate spending the revenues on some pinhead project, do I lose my voice of dissension because I opposed high taxes? How the fuck is THAT ethical or moral?
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Is it hard to type in your iron lung?
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Can you prove that it will cost the consumer more in premiums? Yes, or no?
Can you prove that the system will ultimately fail? Yes, or no?
Can you prove that the prohibition on lifetime dollar limits pushes the cost of health care premiums up? Yes, or no?
Insurance is a product that must be available for use in times of need, or it has no fitness of use. Life insurance, for example, is hardly a money-loser, even though the probability of a claim is 100%.
Do you not understand the concept of risk pooling?
If you have evidence that the requirement to accept pre-existing conditions (which, BTW many group plans already have), will drive premiums "through the roof", produce it.
Note - capitalized shrieks of COMMON SENSE followed by multiple exclamation points are not acceptable as evidence.
G
Guns Guns Guns
Guest
Your verbiage does have a tendency to be overblown, but I had no idea your vocal apparatus was swollen.
Have you seen a doctor, or won't your non-ObamaCare policy cover it?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean... does that translate to some kind of 'debate point' in pinhead land?
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Guns Guns Guns
Guest
Perhaps it refers to your "voice of distention".
Dixie, are you aware that Hayek was never an American citizen?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Yeah, well that's cute, but I failed to pay close attention to spell check, when it corrected my misspelling of 'dissension' and it replaced the word for me. My post has been corrected for spelling. Ooo... Dixie was WRONG about something!!! Call all the pinheads... Send out PMs! Everyone flock to this thread and behold! LMFAOoo.... really guys? REALLY?
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, I didn't realize that... is it now the Pinhead Policy, that illegal aliens should never receive benefits from any public service? That's new, isn't it?
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Guns Guns Guns
Guest
What's not new is your refusal to see any hypocrisy in a Koch advising a foreigner to take advantage of American government healthcare...
It means, as I predicted, you are too stupid to breathe un-asisted, hence you need an iron lung.