Keynsian spending

Althea said:
Well...Hoople did a fine job of laying out the symbiotic relationship between the public/private sector. I would add to that the fact that every form of energy....many extremely profitable....have been funded by the taxpayer. I don't know of any large scale power plants that were funded privately.

This isn't about a permanent program to create 'prosperity'. You asked about infrastructure spending.



Over the past 30 years? Simple. Offshoring of jobs in the name of profits, to the detriment of the taxpayer.

Low paying Walmart jobs, with employees who are also on public assistance.

Same with fast food jobs, or any other retail job.

With manufacturing gone, only service industry jobs are safe.
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You're talking about the federal gov't taking the econonic lead in creating jobs in this country. You can't point to an example of it working any other time because it is the private sector that creates the millions of new jobs not the public sector.

Yes we have gone from a manufacturing economy to a new service based one. Technology is going to continue to disrupt old industries in our country going forward as it has other other industries.

But going further into debt for the federal gov't to fund infrastructure projects that should be left up to the states is not how out econony grows.
 
cawacko said:
They invest in our federal highway system which what they are tasked to do.

Going into even more debt for what amounts to essentially political boondoggles is not my idea of wise and smart investments.
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Investing in our public infrastructure is a political boondoogle??!! Dude....you are waaaaay out of touch. That or you are incredibly short sighted. I assume then that the Panama Canal was a boondoggle and the Moon Mission was a boondoggle?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
You mean by signing trade agreements that have permitted American companies to exploit cheap foreign labor?
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you don't need trade agreements to do that, you just need uncompetitive environments from the state and feds which we have

high tax burden
high regulatory burden

all add costs to business, and then you act surprised when they seek other places to do business
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Investing in our public infrastructure is a political boondoogle??!! Dude....you are waaaaay out of touch. That or you are incredibly short sighted. I assume then that the Panama Canal was a boondoggle and the Moon Mission was a boondoggle?
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Yeah, and then carter gives up the Panama Canal

We did get Tang from the space mission so there is that
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Investing in our public infrastructure is a political boondoogle??!! Dude....you are waaaaay out of touch. That or you are incredibly short sighted. I assume then that the Panama Canal was a boondoggle and the Moon Mission was a boondoggle?
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The federal gov't investing in infrastructure that should be handled by the state's is where the boondoggle occurs. I'm all for investing in our infrastructure. I'm not for doing it the way Hillary, Trump and Krugman want to do it.
 
cawacko said:
The federal gov't investing in infrastructure that should be handled by the state's is where the boondoggle occurs. I'm all for investing in our infrastructure. I'm not for doing it the way Hillary, Trump and Krugman want to do it.
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Can states afford to fix their infrastructures without federal dollars? Should we continue to let our nation stay behind infrastructure?
 
Rana said:
Can states afford to fix their infrastructures without federal dollars? Should we continue to let our nation stay behind infrastructure?
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I'm convinced that he's either on a bender, of just stretching this thread.

Either way...I'm out.
 
cawacko said:
You're talking about the federal gov't taking the econonic lead in creating jobs in this country. You can't point to an example of it working any other time because it is the private sector that creates the millions of new jobs not the public sector.

Yes we have gone from a manufacturing economy to a new service based one. Technology is going to continue to disrupt old industries in our country going forward as it has other other industries.

But going further into debt for the federal gov't to fund infrastructure projects that should be left up to the states is not how out econony grows.
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How arrogant. You're just factually wrong. Your discounting all those who contribute to our economy. This States should do it idiotic tripe. We all need to contribute at all levels public and private to make it work. You also overage business men who provide organization but are essentially middlemen who don't do the actual producing, suck of the majority of the wealth produced by a team and the try to bullshit themselves that the world revolves around them. It's a crock of bullshit.

Great businessmen know this. You get things done with people. Not free market religiosity are this arrogant attitude of what is always good for us is what's good for everyone.
 
cawacko said:
The federal gov't investing in infrastructure that should be handled by the state's is where the boondoggle occurs. I'm all for investing in our infrastructure. I'm not for doing it the way Hillary, Trump and Krugman want to do it.
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Oh your more full of shit than a Christmas goose. That is simply ideological nonsense that holds no water. The Staes can't do it by themselves and the market isn't able do to it or they would have.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh your more full of shit than a Christmas goose. That is simply ideological nonsense that holds no water. The Staes can't do it by themselves and the market isn't able do to it or they would have.
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It's not ideological. Read up on. There are people that support infrastructure spending but speak to why it's difficult to have it come from the federal government.
 
cawacko said:
It's not ideological. Read up on. There are people that support infrastructure spending but speak to why it's difficult to have it come from the federal government.
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Wacko...you seem to have this perception that the Federal government pays most of the funding for infrastructure. They don't. States and localities already pay the majority of the cost for infrastructure investment. The Federal government currently only pays 25% of that cost in highway investment and Federal contributions have been declining in recent years.

Given the strategic importance of our national infrastructure and that our investment in infrastructure has not kept pace with population growth and usage why shouldn't we invest more at all levels?

In addition, from a Keynesian economic standpoint why are you making this distinction between investment at the State or Federal level? From a Keynesian standpoint that's a false distinction.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Wacko...you seem to have this perception that the Federal government pays most of the funding for infrastructure. They don't. States and localities already pay the majority of the cost for infrastructure investment. The Federal government currently only pays 25% of that cost in highway investment and Federal contributions have been declining in recent years.

Given the strategic importance of our national infrastructure and that our investment in infrastructure has not kept pace with population growth and usage why shouldn't we invest more at all levels?

In addition, from a Keynesian economic standpoint why are you making this distinction between investment at the State or Federal level? From a Keynesian standpoint that's a false distinction.
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I'm aware the state's pay for a majority of infrastructure and I'm aware Keynesian's don't differentiate between whether the federal or state gov't pays it.

The impetus behind the thread was Krugman's column supporting a massive federal infrastructure investment and Hillary saying she wants to do it and then Trump saying he wants to do it twice the size of Hillary.
 
I was doing some reading on the subject last night and came across this article from David Stockman that I think nails it. Stockman is the Republican contrarian who worked for Reagan and then later spoke out against supply side economics.

He delves deep into how federal funding for infrastructure works and states much better than I have how it often becomes a big boondoggle.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/no-donald-americas-bridges-are-not-falling-down/
 
Mott the Hoople said:
How arrogant. You're just factually wrong. Your discounting all those who contribute to our economy. This States should do it idiotic tripe. We all need to contribute at all levels public and private to make it work. You also overage business men who provide organization but are essentially middlemen who don't do the actual producing, suck of the majority of the wealth produced by a team and the try to bullshit themselves that the world revolves around them. It's a crock of bullshit.

Great businessmen know this. You get things done with people. Not free market religiosity are this arrogant attitude of what is always good for us is what's good for everyone.
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The free market is people, dumbass.
 
cawacko said:
I was doing some reading on the subject last night and came across this article from David Stockman that I think nails it. Stockman is the Republican contrarian who worked for Reagan and then later spoke out against supply side economics.

He delves deep into how federal funding for infrastructure works and states much better than I have how it often becomes a big boondoggle.

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/no-donald-americas-bridges-are-not-falling-down/
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Why didn't you just state that infrastructure investment should be user based? I have no problem with that. In fact it is case where regressive taxation is appropriate.
 
I mean to support that argument I hear truck drivers bitch about fuel taxes. My sentiment is that they use the roads more and do the vast majority of damage to them. They should bear that tax burden.
 
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