Joe Manchin agrees to landmark climate bill

[Celticguy]

Exactly.

I won't be holding my breath.

Which, btw, is probably why Manchin agreed to it.

He knows it's DOA

I hope you are right. the last thing we need is to add fuel to the inflation fire with more printing of money for this new pork bill.
Sure there are a few things people might benefit from but there is far too much pork which is the last thing we ned.

 

[Cypress]

I don't believe it.

And you still need Sinema for the drug pricing, which you won't get from Big Pharma's little whore.

Yes, it could get shut down and not pass

 

[BartenderElite]

If that were really true, they wouldn't need heavy and continuous subsidy by government to make them work in the marketplace. People would buy them, and companies would adopt them because they were cost effective on their own.

The PC market initially was rather niche and slow in growth due to manufacturers keeping their designs proprietary. What opened the PC market to its huge and revolutionary growth was IBM introducing a model that was mass produced, and had open architecture for software development. That allowed widespread use of a common set of hardware, and software developers were free to create masses of new programs and applications easily. NONE OF THAT REQUIRED GOVERNMENT INTROVENTION OR SUBSIDY.

If solar and wind worked, the government wouldn't have to foot the bill for upwards of 50% of the cost of developing in installing it. Same goes for battery cars. These were tried back in the 1910's, and many times since. Every time, they failed in the marketplace against gasoline powered ICE vehicles. This time, they are ONLY succeeding because the government is subsidizing them and penalizing ICE vehicles. If that weren't the case, they'd have already failed in the marketplace this time too.

The bolded isn't a rule - it's just your POV. There are plenty of examples - and particularly in the area of medicine - of private funding and marketplace changes that FOLLOWED initial gov't investment.

I mean, really - you just say stuff. Renewables can be the future, even if the marketplace doesn't support them now, or indicate that in the present.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

The bolded isn't a rule - it's just your POV. There are plenty of examples - and particularly in the area of medicine - of private funding and marketplace changes that FOLLOWED initial gov't investment.

I mean, really - you just say stuff. Renewables can be the future, even if the marketplace doesn't support them now, or indicate that in the present.

That's all just red herrings and strawmen.

In solar and wind, and battery cars for that matter, I am exactly and 100% correct. Nobody would invest in these without the heavy government subsidies being handed out. Whirligigs and sunshine will not power the US, not today, tomorrow, or 50 years from now. It won't work. There are more and more nations where it's already being tried far more than the US and they've all learned that lesson the hard way.

That isn't just my POV, its cold hard facts.

If you want what works you go with nuclear backed by natural gas and hydrogen or ammonia as a portable fuel. You abandon most or all solar and wind. That's what works.

 

[BartenderElite]

That's all just red herrings and strawmen.

In solar and wind, and battery cars for that matter, I am exactly and 100% correct. Nobody would invest in these without the heavy government subsidies being handed out. Whirligigs and sunshine will not power the US, not today, tomorrow, or 50 years from now. It won't work. There are more and more nations where it's already being tried far more than the US and they've all learned that lesson the hard way.

That isn't just my POV, its cold hard facts.

If you want what works you go with nuclear backed by natural gas and hydrogen or ammonia as a portable fuel. You abandon most or all solar and wind. That's what works.

Even in 5 years or so, it will be fun to re-visit these kinds of definitive pronouncements.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Even in 5 years or so, it will be fun to re-visit these kinds of definitive pronouncements.

I agree. Just a hint though...

I've been arguing against wind and solar for nearly two decades already, and so far, my predictions have almost all panned out. For instance, back as far as the early 2000's I was saying Germany's energiewende program was doomed to failure. That's pretty much come true today. Their grid is unstable, they have brown and blackouts regularly, they can't afford to complete their smart grid, they're reverting to coal, wishing they hadn't nixed nuclear, heating homes with pellet stoves, and have seen their CO2 emissions rise in the last few years.

It just doesn't work, and the evidence of that is abundant.

 

[Shoresy]

Joe Manchin and Chuck Schumer agree to major bill on climate change, health care, taxes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna40350

In an unexpected breakthrough, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., reversed his opposition to quickly moving a broad filibuster-proof bill Wednesday and announced he will support a package that includes major investments in drug pricing, as well as provisions to address climate change and taxes on the wealthy.

Great way to fight this stagflation more spending, taxes, and regulation.

Unless it wasn't clear before it should be now the destruction of the US economy isn't a side effect of their policies it is the goal of their policies.

 

[Althea]

I hope you are right. the last thing we need is to add fuel to the inflation fire with more printing of money for this new pork bill.
Sure there are a few things people might benefit from but there is far too much pork which is the last thing we ned.

I haven't read any links yet, but re. drug prices, Sinema voted against negotiating pricing with Big Pharma. We pay 10 times more for drugs made here, than other nations do.

That saves taxpayer dollars.

 

[Althea]

Yes, it could get shut down and not pass

Which is why we need at least 50 Democrats in the Senate, or 47 and the three Indies who caucus with Dems.

We aren't there yet, but this rogue Supreme Court might just make for an unusually good mid term election for the party in power.

 

[Celticguy]

I haven't read any links yet, but re. drug prices, Sinema voted against negotiating pricing with Big Pharma. We pay 10 times more for drugs made here, than other nations do.

That saves taxpayer dollars.

no argument over RX issues (thanks BO for selling us down the river to Pharma).

but its also loaded with way more "green" spending we dont need and instead of adding new corporate tax why not just repeal the tax breeaks that allow companies to end up owing nothing ?

We need Congress to just go on hiatus for a year or two.

 

[Althea]

Joe Manchin and Chuck Schumer agree to major bill on climate change, health care, taxes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna40350

In an unexpected breakthrough, Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., reversed his opposition to quickly moving a broad filibuster-proof bill Wednesday and announced he will support a package that includes major investments in drug pricing, as well as provisions to address climate change and taxes on the wealthy.

Just got home and read the piece.

As stated, Sinema is the problem. If she demands that the carried interest revision is removed, that will blow the numbers for funding.

This is DOA as designed. Let's see if anything passes.

Pretty sad that not one Republican will vote for this.

The carried interest provision could be a problem for Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, D-Ariz., who last year indicated to party leaders that she opposed closing the tax break, which primarily affects investment managers. Her office declined to immediately comment on the provision or the broader Schumer-Manchin deal Wednesday.
But it represents only a small slice of the larger package, at an estimated $14 billion in revenue, and it is unlikely to prevent a version of the legislation from passing.

 

[Althea]

no argument over RX issues (thanks BO for selling us down the river to Pharma).

but its also loaded with way more "green" spending we dont need and instead of adding new corporate tax why not just repeal the tax breeaks that allow companies to end up owing nothing ?

We need Congress to just go on hiatus for a year or two.

I could see massive tax breaks for companies that manufacture here, and a hike for those who don't.

The tax giveaway wasn't coupled with a removal of certain tax shelters, so many corps. pay nothing. You'll never get anything passed in Congress that simply removes the tax giveaway.

Carried interest is a scam that allows some of the wealthiest in the nation to pay virtually nothing on their salaries.

I'm sure all eyes will be on Sinema. I'm quite sure her donors are blowing up her phone, but she's safe in her seat until '24. She can do plenty of damage before then

 

[cawacko]

Great to see the WSJ Editorial Page absolutely roast the Republicans for their failures here. They got absolutely played by Schumer and Manchin. First for agreeing to massive corporate welfare chip deal and now the massive new Green Deal welfare subsidies (even though they aren't supporting it they still helped let it happen). And then the massive welfare infrastructure bill they previously agreed too. In the past they at least attempted to put up a modicum of a fight against Democratic spending (while allowing Republican President's to spend what they want) but now they won't even do that. Republican voters don't really punish them though so I guess that's why they keep doing it.

 

[Celticguy]

I could see massive tax breaks for companies that manufacture here, and a hike for those who don't.

The tax giveaway wasn't coupled with a removal of certain tax shelters, so many corps. pay nothing. You'll never get anything passed in Congress that simply removes the tax giveaway.

Carried interest is a scam that allows some of the wealthiest in the nation to pay virtually nothing on their salaries.

I'm sure all eyes will be on Sinema. I'm quite sure her donors are blowing up her phone, but she's safe in her seat until '24. She can do plenty of damage before then

and nothing will change so long as they keep adding on with built in negating features.