If were to pass today, the vast majority of it won’t even begin to go into effect for close to a year, that is the way Gov’t works, nothing is done the day it is approved, so how is it going to increase inflation today? And a coercing to the right, we will be in full recession in a year, so it’s supposed inflationary effects would be minimal at best
Joe Manchin agrees to landmark climate bill
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If were to pass today, the vast majority of it won’t even begin to go into effect for close to a year, that is the way Gov’t works, nothing is done the day it is approved, so how is it going to increase inflation today? And a coercing to the right, we will be in full recession in a year, so it’s supposed inflationary effects would be minimal at best
floridafan
Verified User
You have no fucking idea as to what is in this bill, so lets take one part, the ability to manufacture semiconductors in this country. Right now we are hostages of Asia, we cant live without them. This was originally an idea, a bill, put forth by the Trump administration.Yet you think this is a shit provision as is the ability to negotiate drug prices with pharmacutical companies. If you aren't for this, my dear, you head is screwed on backwards.
Given the cost of prescription drugs today, the market system isn’t do a great job nor even recognizes the need to address the problem, so any attempt to lower them can’t be wrong
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
What does that matter? It will still affect inflation and the economy negatively. It will drive up costs and make some goods more scarce. It's the same asinine stuff that has been tried by other nations on Gorebal Warming and IT DOESN'T FUCKING WORK! A sure sign on insanity is failing at something but trying repeatedly to do it without changing anything about how. The so-called solutions the Joke administration wants are FAILS! It's that simple. Dumping money into failure is not progress.
So we are going to have inflation and recession occurring at the same time? And how does aid to reduce costs increase costs?
You aren’t arguing the content of the bill, nor possible consequences, rather just echoing standard radio rhetoric
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
There are ways to do it without dumping huge piles of money into corporate giveaways. Usually the Democrats and Left are totally opposed to corporate welfare, yet here we have them embracing it wholesale. If we slapped tariffs on imported chips and lowered corporate taxes, corporations would move their operations to the US because it would be cost effective to do so and do it without taking a dime in government money.
As for drugs, the problem isn't the US, it's nations with heavy government regulation and subsidies. These make their drugs appear cheaper at the retail end and drive up the cost in nations like the US where drug companies can still recoup their R&D costs for newer ones. Does some price gouging occur? Certainly. But that can be handled on a case-by-case basis rather than some blanket government fiat that will just be worked around.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Inflation and recession can both occur together. The economy can shrink while costs rise on the remaining stuff. That isn't hard to grasp. As for government "aid," when that money is borrowed, it adds more cash into the economy but it doesn't necessarily grow the economy. That is, dumping more cash into a receding economy only creates inflation because there is more paper money in circulation for a decreasing amount of goods. Thus, the price of those goods increases to reflect the more available cash.
Dumping another three-quarters of a trillion in fiat money into the economy will certainly increase inflation. It may or may not help with a recession, but since the majority of this bill is what amounts to social-welfare spending, it's almost certain to be recessionary as that spending won't grow the GDP. Social-welfare spending never does. That's because social-welfare money is spent, not invested.
floridafan
Verified User
We have zero ability to make semi conductors in this country, handjob. You have no fucking idea of what you spew.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Intel's Chandler AZ chip plant.
Taiwan Semiconductor plant Phoenix AZ. Started when Trump was in office
In fact, the Phoenix metro area has become one of the leading semiconductor manufacturing cities in the US, along with those in Texas in a corridor between Austin and San Antonio. So, it is YOU that is full of shit.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
A cap of 2000 out of pocket for Medicare drug coverage
The Medicare Part D donut hole or coverage gap is the phase of Part D coverage after your initial coverage period. You enter the donut hole when your total drug costs—including what you and your plan have paid for your drugs—reaches a certain limit. In 2022, that limit is $4,430.
A $2,000 cap on prescription drug out-of-pocket costs for Medicare Part D enrollees who do not qualify for cost-sharing protections would save more than 860,000 enrollees an average of $900 annually. The proposal would increase Medicare spending by less than 1 percent.
The Medicare Part D donut hole or coverage gap is the phase of Part D coverage after your initial coverage period. You enter the donut hole when your total drug costs—including what you and your plan have paid for your drugs—reaches a certain limit. In 2022, that limit is $4,430.
A $2,000 cap on prescription drug out-of-pocket costs for Medicare Part D enrollees who do not qualify for cost-sharing protections would save more than 860,000 enrollees an average of $900 annually. The proposal would increase Medicare spending by less than 1 percent.
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BartenderElite
Verified User
I don't think there is a single technology in our history that didn't have a chorus of "can't be dones" from the status quo crowd.
For decades, many said there would NEVER be a practical or personal use for computers.
Renewables are the future.
For decades, many said there would NEVER be a practical or personal use for computers.
Renewables are the future.
floridafan
Verified User
Intel's Chandler AZ chip plant.
Taiwan Semiconductor plant Phoenix AZ. Started when Trump was in office
In fact, the Phoenix metro area has become one of the leading semiconductor manufacturing cities in the US, along with those in Texas in a corridor between Austin and San Antonio. So, it is YOU that is full of shit.
Today only 10% of semiconductors are made in America; 85% are made in Asia. And none of the most advanced semiconductors are manufactured on U.S. soil. The answer requires a whole-nation approach to rebuild the semiconductor and microchip manufacturing industry in the United States.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
Actually, the most advanced processor chips are made either in the US (like at Intel's Chandler AZ plant), or in Israel (Intel's Haifa plant) not in Asia. Most of the stuff coming from Asia are older designs and basic chips that don't draw a high price per unit. These are still necessary in most electronics applications but simply not cost effective to produce in high cost labor and regulatory markets like the US.
Althea
Althea told me...
I don't believe it.
And you still need Sinema for the drug pricing, which you won't get from Big Pharma's little whore.
Althea
Althea told me...
Exactly.
I won't be holding my breath.
Which, btw, is probably why Manchin agreed to it.
He knows it's DOA
floridafan
Verified User
Cutting through your total bullshit- none of the advanced semi conductors are made in the US, we are prisoners to Asia. You of all people have demanded fewer imports and greater exports- like in Made In The USA, but now all of a sudden its no big deal to have our products made abroad. You opinions change as the wind blows, that what makes you such a low life piece of garbage. BYE.
cawacko
Well-known member
Are you just making a blanket statement or making it in support of this legislation? Because something is our future doesn't automatically mean more gov't subsidies/involvement is the best way for it to grow in the marketplace.
BartenderElite
Verified User
Both. Private funding can follow public commitment. "Billions" always seems like a lot, but this is a pretty token investment in the scheme of things.
T. A. Gardner
Serial Thread Killer
If that were really true, they wouldn't need heavy and continuous subsidy by government to make them work in the marketplace. People would buy them, and companies would adopt them because they were cost effective on their own.
The PC market initially was rather niche and slow in growth due to manufacturers keeping their designs proprietary. What opened the PC market to its huge and revolutionary growth was IBM introducing a model that was mass produced, and had open architecture for software development. That allowed widespread use of a common set of hardware, and software developers were free to create masses of new programs and applications easily. NONE OF THAT REQUIRED GOVERNMENT INTROVENTION OR SUBSIDY.
If solar and wind worked, the government wouldn't have to foot the bill for upwards of 50% of the cost of developing in installing it. Same goes for battery cars. These were tried back in the 1910's, and many times since. Every time, they failed in the marketplace against gasoline powered ICE vehicles. This time, they are ONLY succeeding because the government is subsidizing them and penalizing ICE vehicles. If that weren't the case, they'd have already failed in the marketplace this time too.