Jobs vs. Work

Let's not forget that deflation would just result in massive profit for bankers, as 2 or 3 percent effective interest rates effectively became 10 percent or more.
 
What moron would buy something today (other than necessities) when they can see that prices are continually falling? When they now they will be able to get the same item cheaper in the future?
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Consumers buy things for all kinds of reasons. When Apple introduced the iPhone, there were lines around the block, people camping out, to be the first to have one... even though they knew full well, the price of the item would come down. This was the case with VCR's, DVD players, Computers, and any number of other consumer products. People don't buy things based on what they may or may not be able to buy it for in the future, and if they do base their decision on that, it's called "free market" and is part of capitalist freedom. Housing prices have been dropping like a rock lately, but there are indeed people out there, buying up bargain deals on real estate, even though it is possible for the same real estate to be worth less in the future. You seem to assume that all people think and act alike, and that just isn't the case.

Now, as I have repeatedly said (and you've apparently ignored), a "deflationary spiral" is when deflation continues to drop prices of consumer goods to a point where there is no profit being made and a backlog of inventories starts to occur, and that can be bad, economically. That hasn't happened here yet, and we are a far cry from anything like that. The last time something like that happened was the Great Depression. A deflationary spiral is NOT DEFLATION! Yes, they both use the same root word, but they are two completely different things.

Again... if the value of your dollar is increasing.... what does that do to the value of your DEBT?
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So now you want to 'inflate' people out of debt? Are you serious? Let's say I owe $150k on my home, you want to make things so that $150k is actually worth about $50k, and this means I gain a benefit of $100k by paying off my home.... but now, my home is only worth $50k... so, it doesn't matter about debt, we all owe what we owe, and regardless of inflation or deflation, we still owe what we owe.

If prices are going down across the board.... what is happening to wages? Are they going up or down in a deflationary environment?
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Most employers are reluctant to cut pay. I think I have had my actual pay cut once in my entire life. On the flip side, I have had my pay raised quite often. So, it is far more likely to have an increase in pay than a decrease, and again, whether we have deflation or inflation, doesn't really effect your pay. No one I know is paid based on economic inflation or deflation rates.

Again... find ONE economist who will take the position that a deflationary cycle is better than inflationary for the economy. Just one.
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I can't find an editorial by him, but I would bet that Walter E. Williams would side with me on this. And for the record (this makes the 10th time I've stated it) I have never claimed that a DEFLATIONARY SPIRAL is not indicative of a bad economy! ....I'll repeat that one more time after the next quote, just so it soaks into your pinhead!

Again ditzie... as I stated, deflation is not bad when it is due to increases in efficiencies. But that is not what is happening right now ditzie.... and that type of deflation is NOT what leads to a deflationary cycle. What we are experiencing now is exactly what leads to the downward spiral. This is what leads to a depresssion.
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I encourage you to please go back and read the words I have posted. Please do this with an open mind, and read fully, everything I have said. You will find NUMEROUS times, I have stated exactly what you just said. The difference in our viewpoint is, you assume DEFLATION means the same thing as DEFLATIONARY SPIRAL and I don't believe they are the same thing. You think we are currently experiencing a deflationary spiral, and I don't think we are. We have some deflation, but deflation itself is not necessarily a bad thing.... WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID! Here... I'll quote you again... "deflation is not bad when it is due to increases in efficiencies" ....Now SF? How is that much different than this quote from me: "If we look at what causes deflation, perhaps some of them are the result of a bad economic condition, but perhaps they are the result of outsourcing, or consumer trend, or production efficiency, none of which are indicative of a bad economic condition." It looks like we agree, you just seem to want to mistake deflationary spiral for deflation, and I keep trying to correct you, and you keep bashing me.... it's an endless cycle. Please stop yourself from reactionism and pay attention to what I have said. It's really starting to annoy me.
 
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I've got an idea. Let's stop printing money. All money. And stop sending out replacement money for bad bills. And burn 20% of tax revenues, just to stir up as much deflation as possible. This will produce goods out of thin air! Everyone will be buying everything all the time, because there won't be much money, which means prices will be low, and since low prices are good that means deflation is good! We want as much deflation as possible!

Preferably, we should get down to like 1 dollar total for the whole US! Imagine how rich we'll be then, since that money will be worth so much, and saying that expensive money isn't necessarily a good thing is like saying that steak isn't a good thing!
 
Dixie said:
I can't find an editorial by him, but I would bet that Walter E. Williams would side with me on this. And for the record (this makes the 10th time I've stated it) I have never claimed that a DEFLATIONARY SPIRAL is not indicative of a bad economy! ....I'll repeat that one more time after the next quote, just so it soaks into your pinhead!
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Dixie, on this, I assure you, not even Walter Williams supports you.
 
Watermark said:
I've got an idea. Let's stop printing money. All money. And stop sending out replacement money for bad bills. And burn 20% of tax revenues, just to stir up as much deflation as possible. This will produce goods out of thin air! Everyone will be buying everything all the time, because there won't be much money, which means prices will be low, and since low prices are good that means deflation is good! We want as much deflation as possible!

Preferably, we should get down to like 1 dollar total for the whole US! Imagine how rich we'll be then, since that money will be worth so much, and saying that expensive money isn't necessarily a good thing is like saying that steak isn't a good thing!
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I got a better idea, let's outlaw currency altogether, and go back to the gold/precious medals standard!
 
Dixie said:
I got a better idea, let's outlaw currency altogether, and go back to the gold/precious medals standard!
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YEAH!

And let's destroy as much gold as possible and ban gold mining, and subsidize jewelry by 1000%, to make gold worth as much as possible, because expensive money is good!
 
Dixie said:
You are not in a position to assure me, Waterhead. You are an immature half-gay emo punk who still lives with mommy and daddy. You still need someone to assure you!
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Walter Williams has a degree in economics. He does not believe deflation is a good thing. Nobody believes deflation is a good thing.
 
Watermark said:
Walter Williams has a degree in economics. He does not believe deflation is a good thing. Nobody believes deflation is a good thing.
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I think deflation is a very good thing, and I think most people do like getting things for less. It is what made Walmart and Big Lots such huge corporations. It's why McDonald's is kicking Starbucks ass. You're just a moron who doesn't understand things, and reads too much socialist propaganda.
 
Dixie said:
I think deflation is a very good thing, and I think most people do like getting things for less. It is what made Walmart and Big Lots such huge corporations. It's why McDonald's is kicking Starbucks ass. You're just a moron who doesn't understand things, and reads too much socialist propaganda.
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Deflation is not competition, Dixie. It raises the real value of money, but does not lower the real value of items. Deflation isn't a sign of a production increasing, it isn't a sign of efficiency, it's a sign of economic failure.
 
Dixie said:
I think deflation is a very good thing, and I think most people do like getting things for less. It is what made Walmart and Big Lots such huge corporations. It's why McDonald's is kicking Starbucks ass. You're just a moron who doesn't understand things, and reads too much socialist propaganda.
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Deflation is great provided your salary doesn't also deflate while your debt level remains the same thus decreasing the value and raising the actual cost on all things purchased with credit. Like... well... our national debt and stuff...
 
Damocles said:
Deflation is great provided your salary doesn't also deflate while your debt level remains the same thus decreasing the value and raising the actual cost on all things purchased with credit. Like... well... our national debt and stuff...
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Well, i have maintained since the start of this 'argument' that deflationary spiral is bad, and leads to depression. I understand the concept of deflation creating a real economic problem across the board, once we have entered a deflationary spiral. That isn't what is happening now. Too many things are not 'deflating' in price... I paid $6 for lunch today, a year ago it was $5... two years ago, it was $4... Milk is almost $4 a gallon now, a year or two ago, it was below $3 a gallon. Gas has just recently begun to 'deflate' in price, and thank God!

My point of this entire debate has been, "deflation" is not bad! Consumers love deflation! It makes money more valuable! Plain old common frikkin sense should tell you, that is not a bad thing! As opposed to Inflation, and what happens in an inflationary economy... I'll take my chances with deflation any day! I'd rather my money be worth more than less! Waterhead would obviously rather his money be worth less! Tell ya what Waterhead... why don't you send me half of all your money, that way, the remaining money you have will have half the buying power, and you will be ecstatic! :)
 
Dixie, when a price drops, this may be "deflation", but that's not the economic term we're referring to. We're referring to "deflation" as a state of the overall economy.
 
Dixie said:
My point of this entire debate has been, "deflation" is not bad! Consumers love deflation! It makes money more valuable! Plain old common frikkin sense should tell you, that is not a bad thing!
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Ah, commmon sense rears its ugly head again.

There's a difference between the value of all our money going down together and the value of my money going down alone (for one thing, you've lost nothing in comparison to anyone else). Once again, you fail to seperate the individual from the collective.
 
ib1yysguy said:
so was he (originally).
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Dixie mix n matches random topics that sound simialar but have little to do with each other as a disingenuous debating tactic.

AssHat is simply stupid. There's a reason populists off years back wanted a system put in place specifically to cause inflation. Of course, they way oversimplified things, just like populists usually do, and thought that the more inflation, the better, since it pays off your debts after all! Now Asshat and Dixie are simialarly oversimplifying things, and making deflation into a panacea that cures all ills, when really it does nothing but lead to a spiral into depression.
 
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LOL... Deflation in prices of consumer goods in not Deflation? What is it then? I have made two points this entire debate, and I don't think you pinheads have grasped either one. 1.) Deflation is not bad, in fact, it is rather good from a consumer standpoint. 2.) Deflationary spirals can be bad, and can create depressions. What keeps happening here is, you keep confusing "deflation" with "deflationary spiral" and they are not one in the same. When I give examples of various consumer goods which have decreased in price to the consumer over recent years, that is indeed "deflation" and there is no other word you can find to describe it. When you say "deflation is bad" you really mean that "deflationary spiral" is bad, and I have agreed with you, (now 12 times), in this very thread. The only thing I disagree with you about, is Deflation itself... it's NOT bad, it is good! You keep spewing the idiocy that "deflation is bad" because "deflationary spirals" are bad, or can be bad. To the contrary, "inflation" is bad, as well as "inflationary spirals."

You guys sure you understand economics?
 
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