Jack Smith is the Republiclowns worst nightmare. His work is just beginning.

Geeko Sportivo said:
You may want to start listening to what your own children and grand children have to say about it, and get off your HIGH OLD-FART HORSE!

Because you are due for a rude awakening!
Click to expand...

Biden beat Trump by 7 million votes and 70+ electoral votes. Four years later and a violent insurrection, two indictments, stealing top secret documents allegations, Georgia phone call allegations and more indictments on the way, Trump looks like an even worse candidate than he does in 2020. And I guarantee you America's doesn't want to go through another election fraud bullshit.
America's is tired of Trump's depressing drama. He's a loser. All he's done is lose and scam people his whole life. MAGA morons are blinded to this but there's not enough of them out there to re-elect him. He's done.
 
Joe Capitalist said:
Biden beat Trump by 7 million votes and 70+ electoral votes. Four years later and a violent insurrection, two indictments, stealing top secret documents allegations, Georgia phone call allegations and more indictments on the way, Trump looks like an even worse candidate than he does in 2020. And I guarantee you America's doesn't want to go through another election fraud bullshit.
America's is tired of Trump's depressing drama. He's a loser. All he's done is lose and scam people his whole life. MAGA morons are blinded to this but there's not enough of them out there to re-elect him. He's done.
Click to expand...

If you think Biden is going to again perform better than Obama did in a national election you are crazy.

The media can only shine shit for so long before it gets smeared on everything
 
T. A. Gardner said:
2029598-Carl-Sagan-Quote-The-absence-of-evidence-is-not-the-evidence-of.jpg
Click to expand...

Right.

so where is your EVIDENCE that mail in voting is bad and should not be done?

You have not offered any yet despite claiming it should be stopped so the onus is on you.
 
QP! said:
Right.

so where is your EVIDENCE that mail in voting is bad and should not be done?

You have not offered any yet despite claiming it should be stopped so the onus is on you.
Click to expand...

Mail in voting alone isn't likely to be that rife with fraud until you add other elements necessary to allow it to happen. These are:

Ballot harvesting. This allows political operatives to legally handle large numbers of ballots outside of the voting system.

No careful control on voter registration roles-- ie., not continually updating and purging voter registrations as one example. This allows persons deliberately or accidentally to be sent a ballot who should be ineligible to vote.

Same day voter registration. Allows persons, so inclined, to potentially vote in different states.

No national cross check of registration. Each state operates their voter registration system largely independent of other states. Thus, people can be registered in more than one state whether it is on purpose or accidental.

No voter ID. Again, whether in person or by mail, lax checks on who's actually casting a vote increases the possibility of undetected fraud.

Voting 'seasons.' When the voting period covers a month or more, that gives those wanting to commit fraud plenty of time to do it on a mass scale with mail-in balloting.

Automatic voter registration. This coupled with automatic mailing of a ballot to each voter again increases chances of fraud and unaccounted for ballots. In most cases, where this is done you register when you get a driver's license or state ID. If you change address and don't notify the DMV, your ballot gets mailed to your old address. Now there are lots of ballots floating around that were mailed to the wrong location. It also raises the potential for illegal immigrants and others ineligible to vote being registered because they could legally get a driver's license and were not screened about their eligibility to vote.

Ballots mailed to mass delivery addresses. An example of this might be a nursing home where all the ballots arrive to an office before distribution to individual tenants.

It isn't one thing that causes it. It is the aggregate of multiple bad practices that culminate in a high potential for fraud. The simpler and more direct the balloting process is, the less potential for fraud. Thus, the best system is you are screened when you register to vote. Your registration requires you update things periodically. On election day, you show up at a designated voting location, present valid ID, are given a ballot you fill out there, and it is turned in and counted.

Nothing is done out of sight of election officials.

Given the current system, there is reasonable doubt that the system is free of corruption or fraud. It isn't sufficient to claim without proof that the system is fraud free and accurate. The proof of that is the declining percentage of people that buy those claims. A majority of Americans now have little or no faith in the accuracy of elections and simply saying they are free of fraud and accurate isn't going to change that. If anything, it will only increase their belief the system isn't working.
 
QP! said:
Right.

so where is your EVIDENCE that mail in voting is bad and should not be done?

You have not offered any yet despite claiming it should be stopped so the onus is on you.
Click to expand...

A bipartisan commission long ago studied this and came to a joint conclusion that “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud”

I think the onus is on you to dispel those fears
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Mail in voting alone isn't likely to be that rife with fraud until you add other elements necessary to allow it to happen. These are:

Ballot harvesting. This allows political operatives to legally handle large numbers of ballots outside of the voting system.

No careful control on voter registration roles-- ie., not continually updating and purging voter registrations as one example. This allows persons deliberately or accidentally to be sent a ballot who should be ineligible to vote.

Same day voter registration. Allows persons, so inclined, to potentially vote in different states.

No national cross check of registration. Each state operates their voter registration system largely independent of other states. Thus, people can be registered in more than one state whether it is on purpose or accidental.

No voter ID. Again, whether in person or by mail, lax checks on who's actually casting a vote increases the possibility of undetected fraud.

Voting 'seasons.' When the voting period covers a month or more, that gives those wanting to commit fraud plenty of time to do it on a mass scale with mail-in balloting.

Automatic voter registration. This coupled with automatic mailing of a ballot to each voter again increases chances of fraud and unaccounted for ballots. In most cases, where this is done you register when you get a driver's license or state ID. If you change address and don't notify the DMV, your ballot gets mailed to your old address. Now there are lots of ballots floating around that were mailed to the wrong location. It also raises the potential for illegal immigrants and others ineligible to vote being registered because they could legally get a driver's license and were not screened about their eligibility to vote.

Ballots mailed to mass delivery addresses. An example of this might be a nursing home where all the ballots arrive to an office before distribution to individual tenants.

It isn't one thing that causes it. It is the aggregate of multiple bad practices that culminate in a high potential for fraud. The simpler and more direct the balloting process is, the less potential for fraud. Thus, the best system is you are screened when you register to vote. Your registration requires you update things periodically. On election day, you show up at a designated voting location, present valid ID, are given a ballot you fill out there, and it is turned in and counted.

Nothing is done out of sight of election officials.

Given the current system, there is reasonable doubt that the system is free of corruption or fraud. It isn't sufficient to claim without proof that the system is fraud free and accurate. The proof of that is the declining percentage of people that buy those claims. A majority of Americans now have little or no faith in the accuracy of elections and simply saying they are free of fraud and accurate isn't going to change that. If anything, it will only increase their belief the system isn't working.
Click to expand...

Evidence... EVIDENCE...

I did not ask for your speculation devoid of a single fact.

You criticized the other person for not having 'evidence' and have offered none, despite this being your point.

So again, please provide the EVIDENCE of what you are claiming in your next post reply.
 
zymurgy said:
A bipartisan commission long ago studied this and came to a joint conclusion that “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud”

I think the onus is on you to dispel those fears
Click to expand...

I can play your game too.

A bipartisan commission last year found concluded that fraud was not possible via absentee ballots.

You see how easy it is for us to just make up things and state them as true with no citations to any study or facts?

You guys are the ones making the claims about absentee and Mail in voting, and you are the ones who need to support your statements.
 
QP! said:
Evidence... EVIDENCE...

I did not ask for your speculation devoid of a single fact.

You criticized the other person for not having 'evidence' and have offered none, despite this being your point.

So again, please provide the EVIDENCE of what you are claiming in your next post reply.
Click to expand...

That's just moving the goalposts in the form of a McNamara fallacy. What you demand is 100% tangible proof, knowing that doesn't exist. What you then do is dismiss all of the subjective and reasonable doubt as irrelevant and proof that what is suspected or speculated on could not possibly happen.

In a nutshell, what you are saying Well, this hasn't happened that we know of so therefore it can't happen...
 
QP! said:
I can play your game too.

A bipartisan commission last year found concluded that fraud was not possible via absentee ballots.

You see how easy it is for us to just make up things and state them as true with no citations to any study or facts?

You guys are the ones making the claims about absentee and Mail in voting, and you are the ones who need to support your statements.
Click to expand...

you are a lying piece of shit. I see how easy that is for you to be that guy
 
QP! said:
I can play your game too.

A bipartisan commission last year found concluded that fraud was not possible via absentee ballots.

You see how easy it is for us to just make up things and state them as true with no citations to any study or facts?

You guys are the ones making the claims about absentee and Mail in voting, and you are the ones who need to support your statements.
Click to expand...

Then that commission was either deliberately oblivious or lying.

An example of that would be the dual state registration and mail exchange scheme. This one happened for real between about a dozen people each in Ohio and Arizona about two decades ago now.

What they did was all were registered to vote in both states as there was no cross-check on registration so neither state knew they were. They elected to get mail in ballots. All 12 (or whatever) were sent to one address that all of the participants in the other state were registered as their home address in that state. The person that was key in each state then sent the ballots for the other state persons to them via fed ex. They were filled out, returned fed ex, and then mailed in from the appropriate state location.

The scam only became known because someone checking the voter rolls thought it was strange that 12 people all lived at the same address, a small house. It unraveled from there.

If voter rolls aren't being checked purged regularly as the Democrats want to have happen, that would make the above virtually impossible to detect.

When the ballots are out of sight, and there is weeks of voting time involved, such schemes are doable and virtually undetectable. Yet, your claim is because it hasn't happened (that we know of) it can't happen. Well, it can and it likely does.

Vote pairing or swapping, is a questionable but legal variant of the above.

https://mashable.com/article/people-are-trading-votes-and-its-legal

The only sure way to ensure clean and open elections is in-person voting with ID and careful checking for validity on an election day at a polling location where everything is under surveillance. Mail-in voting, especially when coupled with all the stuff I mentioned, is nothing but a mass fraud possibility one election away.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That's just moving the goalposts in the form of a McNamara fallacy. What you demand is 100% tangible proof, knowing that doesn't exist. What you then do is dismiss all of the subjective and reasonable doubt as irrelevant and proof that what is suspected or speculated on could not possibly happen.

In a nutshell, what you are saying Well, this hasn't happened that we know of so therefore it can't happen...
Click to expand...
BINGO!
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Then that commission was either deliberately oblivious or lying.

An example of that would be the dual state registration and mail exchange scheme. This one happened for real between about a dozen people each in Ohio and Arizona about two decades ago now.

What they did was all were registered to vote in both states as there was no cross-check on registration so neither state knew they were. They elected to get mail in ballots. All 12 (or whatever) were sent to one address that all of the participants in the other state were registered as their home address in that state. The person that was key in each state then sent the ballots for the other state persons to them via fed ex. They were filled out, returned fed ex, and then mailed in from the appropriate state location.

The scam only became known because someone checking the voter rolls thought it was strange that 12 people all lived at the same address, a small house. It unraveled from there.

If voter rolls aren't being checked purged regularly as the Democrats want to have happen, that would make the above virtually impossible to detect.

When the ballots are out of sight, and there is weeks of voting time involved, such schemes are doable and virtually undetectable. Yet, your claim is because it hasn't happened (that we know of) it can't happen. Well, it can and it likely does.

Vote pairing or swapping, is a questionable but legal variant of the above.

https://mashable.com/article/people-are-trading-votes-and-its-legal

The only sure way to ensure clean and open elections is in-person voting with ID and careful checking for validity on an election day at a polling location where everything is under surveillance. Mail-in voting, especially when coupled with all the stuff I mentioned, is nothing but a mass fraud possibility one election away.
Click to expand...
People living in apartments have reported receiving multiple ballots for previous tenets.
 
zymurgy said:
A bipartisan commission long ago studied this and came to a joint conclusion that “Absentee ballots remain the largest source of potential voter fraud”

I think the onus is on you to dispel those fears
Click to expand...

The real question is are they a significant source of actual voter fraud, and after numerous state and federal elections that included them there is no evidence that they are. Any significant numbers of fraudulent mail in ballots would inevitably run up against ballots also cast by the real voter, either in person or by his or her own mail in ballot, and the alarms would go off. Hasn't happened.
 
martin said:
The real question is are they a significant source of actual voter fraud, and after numerous state and federal elections that included them there is no evidence that they are. Any significant numbers of fraudulent mail in ballots would inevitably run up against ballots also cast by the real voter, either in person or by his or her own mail in ballot, and the alarms would go off. Hasn't happened.
Click to expand...

On that I agree. Mail in balloting makes it possible that a sufficient number of fraudulent votes could be easily generated--say several thousand at most--to change the outcome of a close election. On that note,

They can't cheat if it isn't close.

That's what it comes down to. If it is close, cheating can change the outcome.

So, with respect to the 2020 election: Was their significant voter fraud. Probably. Did it change the outcome? No. The outcome wasn't close enough for that.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
That's just moving the goalposts in the form of a McNamara fallacy. What you demand is 100% tangible proof, knowing that doesn't exist. What you then do is dismiss all of the subjective and reasonable doubt as irrelevant and proof that what is suspected or speculated on could not possibly happen.

In a nutshell, what you are saying Well, this hasn't happened that we know of so therefore it can't happen...
Click to expand...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA.

You and others started this claim that this mass fraud, and you called out those who oppose your view to provide evidence for their stance while you say asking you for any evidence is 'moving the goalpost' because 'you have subjective and reasonable doubts'.

You really are empty posting clown. NOt even the trolls on this thread as they are playing a game. You are just stupid.

There is FAR MORE reasonable subjective and reasonable' data suggesting that any such voter fraud is so small, that it is non existent, as study after study has sought to find and CANNOT. Highly motivated people who share your view have tried to find and CANNOT.

And yet as with all Trump arguments you site your 'belief' that flies in the face of all evidence as something to be taken seriously because 'you believe it'.
 
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