yep..the rise of the salafists along with the rise of "political Islam"created a powder keg.
Allahu Akbar
Is Islam evil?
- Thread starter tsuke
- Start date
Allahu Akbar
Yet people never use the word "evil" when talking about other religions that kill for power. Ex.: Catholics and Protestants in No. Ireland.
I remember a few IRA bombings that were evil..they were called hideous, criminal..who knows about evil -it's implied with murder.
Yes, the bombings were evil, not the religions themselves.
yep. like the terrorists attacks are, and the entire ISIS existence is evil.
salafi Islam is fine by me -as long as it's not jihad.
IRA bombings were the same as AQ itself -they kill civilians by design."radical Islamic terrorism"
It is an Abrahamic religion, one of 3.
The other two are Judaism and
Christianity.
All are derived from the same man.
All three share major beliefs and components.
Religion itself by it's nature isn't evil but religion is often used to justify great evil.
This can be said of any religion and it has been previously proven that more have died in the name of Christ than any other religion.
The issue isn't Islam but rather the culture of death that is Semitism.
Life simply has no value to Semites.
Therein lies your problem.
These are not people to be messed with.
They want to be left alone.
All they require of us is to be left to their own devices.
There is no solution to the ME.
When wr stop destroying their countries we will stop producing refugees.
Until then everything we do will be subject to the inexorable law of unintended consequences.
"Radical Islamic terrorism" but never "radical Catholic-Protestant terrorism" is my point.
Btw, I've heard trump use the words "radical Islamic terrorism" since he took office and how has that affected anything?
This is exactly my point.
The ME is a death culture.
Islam isn't the problem it is the excuse.
I used simplistic in this sense: "treating complex issues and problems as if they were much simpler" c9 #20
In that case I'd go w/ "simple" rather than "simplistic".
- "Simple" is the counterpart to "compound".
- "Simplistic" means oversimplification by dismissing relevant complexities.
"I consider the choice (evil or anti-west) to be a false premise and a false dichotomy."
It's an apparent attempt to connect explanation with reality.
We KNOW the fact. The question is, how do we explain it.
The attacks of 09/11/01, the African embassy bombings, the destruction of the U.S.S. Cole, and various other evil-doings indicate a severe & ruthless antagonism between SOME Islamists against the U.S.
"I mostly agree with Scheuer's solutions but not necessarily with this comment: "the reality that many of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims hate us for actions, not values," because how does he conclude that "many hate us" without showing how he arrived at that conclusion."
Scheuer may have devoted a decade or more to that narrow field of study.
It's impossible to blurt out every jot & tittle in a 4 minute TV interview; so he had to give conclusions.
That doesn't mean his conclusions are baseless. Instead it means they simply weren't disclosed in that one interview.
BUT !!
I've heard of some of them; and this may be the missing puzzle piece for you.
For decades traditionalist Muslims have seen the affects of Western culture on their own Muslim culture.
Their teenagers weren't listening to Muslim music. They were listening to Western music, wearing Western style clothing, carrying smart-phones, etc.
Western culture was simply over-running much of Islam.
And since Islam is an ancient tradition to begin with, the Muslim elders couldn't simply compete on market-driven basis; for they'd have had to destroy the Islam they knew.
So instead of winning away ethnic Muslims that were seduced by Western culture; the Muslim traditionalists turned violently radical, and coerced compliance: act Muslim, or you and your family will die.
That's how a school girl like Malala Yousafzai can get shot in the head, simply for attending school. An education is antithetical to these religious troglodytes.
"The Taliban and Isil are not what I call mainstream."
Per capita? OF COURSE NOT!
"Even the so-called mainstream Muslims hate and fear ISIL and the Taliban and those two torture and kill more Muslims than any other group of people."
But not enough to shut them down. I agree. They cower. But why must it be the job of the U.S. to rescue them? When Hitler threatened U.S., we didn't go to Damascus, and beg them to save us. We took care of it.
It does not speak well for Islam that Muslims are willing to have such flagrant atrocities perpetrated in the name of their religion.
I see them as fighting to gain power, not to convert infidels. c9 #20
For a population that size, it's probably both.
The proportion, the ratio is debatable, but almost certainly varies over time.
"Yet people never use the word "evil" when talking about other religions that kill for power. Ex.: Catholics and Protestants in No. Ireland." c9 #22
Yours is a point worth making.
But there's an important distinction as well.
To my knowledge, the Catholic / Protestant carnage in Northern Ireland was not preached from the pulpit; it was rather more freelance carnage; not based on religious / church teachings, but rather more despite them.
In that case I'd go w/ "simple" rather than "simplistic".
- "Simple" is the counterpart to "compound".
- "Simplistic" means oversimplification by dismissing relevant complexities.
"I consider the choice (evil or anti-west) to be a false premise and a false dichotomy."
It's an apparent attempt to connect explanation with reality.
We KNOW the fact. The question is, how do we explain it.
The attacks of 09/11/01, the African embassy bombings, the destruction of the U.S.S. Cole, and various other evil-doings indicate a severe & ruthless antagonism between SOME Islamists against the U.S.
"I mostly agree with Scheuer's solutions but not necessarily with this comment: "the reality that many of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims hate us for actions, not values," because how does he conclude that "many hate us" without showing how he arrived at that conclusion."
Scheuer may have devoted a decade or more to that narrow field of study.
It's impossible to blurt out every jot & tittle in a 4 minute TV interview; so he had to give conclusions.
That doesn't mean his conclusions are baseless. Instead it means they simply weren't disclosed in that one interview.
BUT !!
I've heard of some of them; and this may be the missing puzzle piece for you.
For decades traditionalist Muslims have seen the affects of Western culture on their own Muslim culture.
Their teenagers weren't listening to Muslim music. They were listening to Western music, wearing Western style clothing, carrying smart-phones, etc.
Western culture was simply over-running much of Islam.
And since Islam is an ancient tradition to begin with, the Muslim elders couldn't simply compete on market-driven basis; for they'd have had to destroy the Islam they knew.
So instead of winning away ethnic Muslims that were seduced by Western culture; the Muslim traditionalists turned violently radical, and coerced compliance: act Muslim, or you and your family will die.
That's how a school girl like Malala Yousafzai can get shot in the head, simply for attending school. An education is antithetical to these religious troglodytes.
"The Taliban and Isil are not what I call mainstream."
Per capita? OF COURSE NOT!
"Even the so-called mainstream Muslims hate and fear ISIL and the Taliban and those two torture and kill more Muslims than any other group of people."
But not enough to shut them down. I agree. They cower. But why must it be the job of the U.S. to rescue them? When Hitler threatened U.S., we didn't go to Damascus, and beg them to save us. We took care of it.
It does not speak well for Islam that Muslims are willing to have such flagrant atrocities perpetrated in the name of their religion.
I see them as fighting to gain power, not to convert infidels. c9 #20
For a population that size, it's probably both.
The proportion, the ratio is debatable, but almost certainly varies over time.
"Yet people never use the word "evil" when talking about other religions that kill for power. Ex.: Catholics and Protestants in No. Ireland." c9 #22
Yours is a point worth making.
But there's an important distinction as well.
To my knowledge, the Catholic / Protestant carnage in Northern Ireland was not preached from the pulpit; it was rather more freelance carnage; not based on religious / church teachings, but rather more despite them.
give it time. the use of radical islamic terrorism isn't going to change a lot of minds -
but it is effective description,as opposed to Obama's "violent extremists" blandishments.
That along with better vetting like the travel ban, until we can get a working realtionshiop with those countries
(excluding the green card holders -they are fine) reduces the opportunities,and shows a concern that
we aren't going to simply be all PC about this anymore..
In the long run it's our counter-terrorism strategy that is the most important. I'm not sur yet what Trump
is going to do -a lot of this is on autopilot.
But I did hear some IC analysts say they were prohibited to searching locales simply by religion ( Islam)-
which is foolish. Use everything we have. terrorism is an existential threat to the world peace and order.
Speaking of simplistic I implore you to cease trying to correct other posters.
Your points are often valid enough on their own legs but so are those of the others.
Nuance is a bitch and despite your experience and knowledge you are not the master of it.
look at the USA and look at Europe.
we really are a country that is open to all cultures,and it helps us to assimilate.
I still see a lot of Spanish/Hispanic enclaves down here-but it's not the norm..
2nd generation are decidedly "Americans"
For whatever reasons -and there are many-Europe simply doesn't assimilate that well -
some of it is sheer numbers of refugees there; but they had the same problem before the last migration
"The Islam as practiced produces a culture "
Almost but no.
The Culture precedes Islam by many millenia.
The Culture is of death.
Islam is the justification.
The distinction is very important.
Bigdog
Harris - make America a 3rd world shithole
OMG!
"The conflict was primarily political and nationalistic, fuelled by historical events.[27] It also had an ethnic or sectarian dimension,[28] although it was not a religious conflict.[11][29] A key issue was the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles
So brainwashed. Sooooo brainwashed.
Cancel 2018.2
Oh, hi
While this is partly true, the people's there who embraced Islam and incorporated previously secular culture, did not became as warlike until they embraced Islam. Jews were not second class citizens in the ME before Islam. Thus, you cannot say that this was part of the culture before Islam.
Assimilation is always an initial issue in immigration.
The Chineses, The Irish now the Mexicans, next the Muslims.
Xenophobia is a bitch.
Yes I can.
Jews are Semites.
The Semitic culture of death far precedes Muhammad.
Consider the initial journey around the sea of Galilee at which time the Jews killed all they encountered saving only healthy young males as slaves marked by blindling in one eye.
Yet the truth is also that the Catholics were bombing the Protestants.
Doesn't that suck for your "argument"_?