Is Islam evil?
- Thread starter tsuke
- Start date
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
If it's not, it is at least anti-Western, which means it is an adversary.
so its either an evil religion or an anti west religion.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Of course, generating conflict in Africa, India, China, Russia, the Philippines, everywhere, is a good way to be looked at as more than simply anti-Western.
Darth Omar
Russian asset
If the only two choices are good or evil, then it's evil. But it's probably more complicated than that.
<but there's billions of peaceful Muslims goes right here>
The Islam as practiced in many parts of the world produces a culture that is at odds with western values---as the Swedes have painfully learned. And that's not even getting into the terrorism aspect. It's a politically incorrect fact that Islam produces terrorists at a higher rate than any other religion.
And not terrorists who are incidentally Muslim; rather, their acts are directly rooted in their interpretation of Islam.
<but there's billions of peaceful Muslims goes right here>
The Islam as practiced in many parts of the world produces a culture that is at odds with western values---as the Swedes have painfully learned. And that's not even getting into the terrorism aspect. It's a politically incorrect fact that Islam produces terrorists at a higher rate than any other religion.
And not terrorists who are incidentally Muslim; rather, their acts are directly rooted in their interpretation of Islam.
"Beware the divine imprimatur!" sear's pappy
TOPIC: Is Islam evil?
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." sometimes attributed to Seneca the Younger (c.3 BCE - CE 65)
Any "magical thinking" (thought or belief not grounded on fact or logic) is potentially perilous.
It's not merely a hypothetical danger. Public beheadings have been returned to the 3rd millennium by deranged religious zealots that call their homicidal club "Islamic State".
They're thugs of the worst order.
And Islam is their claim to legitimacy.
Is religion evil? Or is it humanity that is prone to evil?
TOPIC: Is Islam evil?
"The tragedy of religion is that it languishes if unorganized, and it suffers corruption if it is organized, and when badly corrupted it has demonstrated a fierce ability to do harm." author Will Durant
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." sometimes attributed to Seneca the Younger (c.3 BCE - CE 65)
Any "magical thinking" (thought or belief not grounded on fact or logic) is potentially perilous.
It's not merely a hypothetical danger. Public beheadings have been returned to the 3rd millennium by deranged religious zealots that call their homicidal club "Islamic State".
They're thugs of the worst order.
And Islam is their claim to legitimacy.
Is religion evil? Or is it humanity that is prone to evil?
There are 3.3 million Muslims who live peacefully in the United States
There are 44 million Muslims in Europe.
This would tell me they aren't at odds with Western values, but have seemed to embrace our culture.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
They haven't really embraced Western culture all that well. Just look at the next DNC Chairperson (probable), who hates the Jews.
Bannon hates Jews as well, what does that have to do with embracing Western culture?
Define "our culture".
"There are 3.3 million Muslims who live peacefully in the United States
There are 44 million Muslims in Europe.
This would tell me they aren't at odds with Western values, but have seemed to embrace our culture." QS #8
After the attacks of 09/11/01 pan Islam was quite subdued in its reaction to the horrific carnage perpetrated in its name.
But when a Danish cartoon showing a bomb in the Prophet Mohammed's turban was published, the rioting by Muslims around the globe was so vehement that human life was lost.
What more clear indication of the collective Muslim priority can there be?
We can't attribute either of these to one Muslim having a bad day, or one Muslim being psychologically off-kilter.
These are each unambiguous demonstrations of the values intrinsic to Muslims: a cartoon is more offensive than the murder of ~3,000 innocent humans in a single day.
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
The sanity check is quite simple.
Where are the protests over such heinous acts as the attempted execution by Taliban thugs of Malala Yousafzai? She committed the unpardonable sin of attending school.
What may be the eternal scourge on humanity from Islam:
Christendom underwent the Reformation, the Enlightenment. There was a path to redemption via a single primary leader in the Pope, DESPITE the theological divisions.
Without a corresponding organizational structure in Islam, at best Imams would be left to squabble amongst themselves, never resolving the issues of their apparently eternal dark age.
There are 44 million Muslims in Europe.
This would tell me they aren't at odds with Western values, but have seemed to embrace our culture." QS #8
After the attacks of 09/11/01 pan Islam was quite subdued in its reaction to the horrific carnage perpetrated in its name.
But when a Danish cartoon showing a bomb in the Prophet Mohammed's turban was published, the rioting by Muslims around the globe was so vehement that human life was lost.
What more clear indication of the collective Muslim priority can there be?
We can't attribute either of these to one Muslim having a bad day, or one Muslim being psychologically off-kilter.
These are each unambiguous demonstrations of the values intrinsic to Muslims: a cartoon is more offensive than the murder of ~3,000 innocent humans in a single day.
88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
The sanity check is quite simple.
Where are the protests over such heinous acts as the attempted execution by Taliban thugs of Malala Yousafzai? She committed the unpardonable sin of attending school.
What may be the eternal scourge on humanity from Islam:
Christendom underwent the Reformation, the Enlightenment. There was a path to redemption via a single primary leader in the Pope, DESPITE the theological divisions.
Without a corresponding organizational structure in Islam, at best Imams would be left to squabble amongst themselves, never resolving the issues of their apparently eternal dark age.
cancel2 2022
Canceled
That's because you are mostly uninformed and naive. Now that you are retired why don't you go to the banlieues of Paris, Molenbeek in Brussels or many former Lancashire mill towns. Trouble is, like so many, you accept filtered information.
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Where did those demonstrations that ended life take place? Were they in Western countries? Did Muslims react that way in the USA?
Right now I'm reading a book about honor killings that Tom mentioned, Murder in the Name of Honor by Rana Husseini. Ms. Husseini was born in Jordan but her nationality is Palestinian. Here are a couple of excerpts.
"Ms. Husseini describes an interview in a Jordanian jail she had with a young man named Sarhan who in 1999 shot his sister Yasmin because she was no longer a virgin after she had been raped by a brother-in-law. In the interview, Sarhan explained, “‘I killed her because she was no longer a virgin,’ he told me. ‘She made a mistake, willingly or not. It is better that one person dies than the whole family of shame and disgrace. It is like a box of apples. If you have one rotten apple would you keep it or get rid of it? I just got rid of it.’
When I challenged Sarhan by pointing out that his act contradicted the teachings of Islam and was punishable by God, he said, ‘I know that killing my sister is against Islam and it angered God, but I had to do what I had to do and I will answer to God when the time comes.” He added, “I know my sister was killed unjustly but what can I do? This is how society thinks. Nobody really wants to kill his own sister.”
An honor killing occurs when a male relative decides to take the life of a female relative because, in his opinion, she has dishonored her family’s reputation by engaging in an "immoral" act. An immoral act could be that she was simply seen with a strange man or that she slept with a man. In many cases, women are killed just because of rumors or unfounded suspicions.When I went to investigate the crime I met with her two uncles. At first when I questioned them about the murder they got defensive and asked, "Who told you that?" I said it was in the newspaper. They started telling me that she was "not a good girl." So I asked, "Why was it her fault that she has been raped? Why didn’t the family punish her brother?" And they both looked at each other and one uncle said to the other, "What do you think? Do you think we killed the wrong person?" The other replied, "No, no. Don’t worry. She seduced her brother." I asked them why, with millions of men in the street, would she choose to seduce her own brother? They only repeated that she had tarnished the family image by committing an impure act.
Honor killings are part of a culture, not a religion, and occur in Arab communities in the United States and many countries. One-third of the reported homicides in Jordan are honor killings. The killers are treated with leniency, and families assign the task of honor killing to a minor, because under Jordanian juvenile law, minors who commit crimes are sentenced to a juvenile center where they can learn a profession and continue their education, and then, at eighteen, be released without a criminal record. The average term served for an honor killing is only seven and a half months.
"Ms. Husseini describes an interview in a Jordanian jail she had with a young man named Sarhan who in 1999 shot his sister Yasmin because she was no longer a virgin after she had been raped by a brother-in-law. In the interview, Sarhan explained, “‘I killed her because she was no longer a virgin,’ he told me. ‘She made a mistake, willingly or not. It is better that one person dies than the whole family of shame and disgrace. It is like a box of apples. If you have one rotten apple would you keep it or get rid of it? I just got rid of it.’
When I challenged Sarhan by pointing out that his act contradicted the teachings of Islam and was punishable by God, he said, ‘I know that killing my sister is against Islam and it angered God, but I had to do what I had to do and I will answer to God when the time comes.” He added, “I know my sister was killed unjustly but what can I do? This is how society thinks. Nobody really wants to kill his own sister.”
An honor killing occurs when a male relative decides to take the life of a female relative because, in his opinion, she has dishonored her family’s reputation by engaging in an "immoral" act. An immoral act could be that she was simply seen with a strange man or that she slept with a man. In many cases, women are killed just because of rumors or unfounded suspicions.When I went to investigate the crime I met with her two uncles. At first when I questioned them about the murder they got defensive and asked, "Who told you that?" I said it was in the newspaper. They started telling me that she was "not a good girl." So I asked, "Why was it her fault that she has been raped? Why didn’t the family punish her brother?" And they both looked at each other and one uncle said to the other, "What do you think? Do you think we killed the wrong person?" The other replied, "No, no. Don’t worry. She seduced her brother." I asked them why, with millions of men in the street, would she choose to seduce her own brother? They only repeated that she had tarnished the family image by committing an impure act.
Honor killings are part of a culture, not a religion, and occur in Arab communities in the United States and many countries. One-third of the reported homicides in Jordan are honor killings. The killers are treated with leniency, and families assign the task of honor killing to a minor, because under Jordanian juvenile law, minors who commit crimes are sentenced to a juvenile center where they can learn a profession and continue their education, and then, at eighteen, be released without a criminal record. The average term served for an honor killing is only seven and a half months.
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Neither. How simplistic.
If they don't live in Western countries then why should they embrace Western culture?
Quote Originally Posted by tsuke View Post
so its either an evil religion or an anti west religion.
"Neither. How simplistic." c9 #17
"Both" may be the more accurate answer. "Simplistic" doesn't apply to that quotation.
t may not be an expert on it.
c9 may not be an expert on it.
sear may not be an expert on it.
So I'll quote the one that was one of our CIA's highest ranking authorities on it:
On Nov. 21, 2004 Meet The Press Former CIA Senior Analyst Michael Scheuer; formerly referred to as author "Anonymous" of Imperial Hubris said of bin Laden:
Scheuer may know more about it than the three of us combined.
I'm not saying 100% of all Islam is anti-West.
But there's a variety of different forms of Islam:
Wahabi: reportedly one of the most radical
Shi'ah: the Islamist sect that marches in public flagellating themselves, literally beating themselves with chains, bleeding from their scalps
Sunni: Saddam's preference, iirc
Make no mistake:
The Taliban has religious tenets, and they're not Christian or Jewish. They're MUSLIM! And they are assuredly anti-West.
ISIL? Tell me they're not anti-west. They're as megalomaniacal as Hitler was. They won't rest until the entire planet is a caliphate under their control.
so its either an evil religion or an anti west religion.
"Neither. How simplistic." c9 #17
"Both" may be the more accurate answer. "Simplistic" doesn't apply to that quotation.
t may not be an expert on it.
c9 may not be an expert on it.
sear may not be an expert on it.
So I'll quote the one that was one of our CIA's highest ranking authorities on it:
On Nov. 21, 2004 Meet The Press Former CIA Senior Analyst Michael Scheuer; formerly referred to as author "Anonymous" of Imperial Hubris said of bin Laden:
Scheuer may know more about it than the three of us combined.
I'm not saying 100% of all Islam is anti-West.
But there's a variety of different forms of Islam:
Wahabi: reportedly one of the most radical
Shi'ah: the Islamist sect that marches in public flagellating themselves, literally beating themselves with chains, bleeding from their scalps
Sunni: Saddam's preference, iirc
Make no mistake:
The Taliban has religious tenets, and they're not Christian or Jewish. They're MUSLIM! And they are assuredly anti-West.
ISIL? Tell me they're not anti-west. They're as megalomaniacal as Hitler was. They won't rest until the entire planet is a caliphate under their control.
I used simplistic in this sense: "treating complex issues and problems as if they were much simpler than they really are." And I consider the choice (evil or anti-west) to be a false premise and a false dichotomy.
I mostly agree with Scheuer's solutions but not necessarily with this comment: "the reality that many of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims hate us for actions, not values," because how does he conclude that "many hate us" without showing how he arrived at that conclusion.
The Taliban and Isil are not what I call mainstream. Even the so-called mainstream Muslims hate and fear ISIL and the Taliban and those two torture and kill more Muslims than any other group of people. I see them as fighting to gain power, not to convert infidels.