Illogical Hillary demands all schools be above average!!!!

Celticguy said:
Agreed that corruption and institutional incompetence are giant albatross around the neck
Another somewhat recent matter is special needs requirements. I'm not against this, just pointing out the financial impact. School budgets went up dramatically due to the personal intensive costs associated with it. In some cases, you have one to one educator to kid ratios.
Look into it if you are not familiar with how it works.
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What would be your solution to this?
 
Celticguy said:
Agreed that corruption and institutional incompetence are giant albatross around the neck
Another somewhat recent matter is special needs requirements. I'm not against this, just pointing out the financial impact. School budgets went up dramatically due to the personal intensive costs associated with it. In some cases, you have one to one educator to kid ratios.
Look into it if you are not familiar with how it works.
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This is true. On more than one occasion we have had had to pay a paraprofessional around $25K-30K to take care of one student because the parent demanded that student attend our public school instead of attending a school designed and funded to work with students who have disabilities. Our school budget is about $2,000,000. If you happen to have 3 or 4 of these kids in your district who have parents of the same mindset it can cripple a school our size financially. Once again, (I'll use christiefan's word) separation is needed.
 
Rana said:
What would be your solution to this?
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Which ?
Institutional incompetence and corruption?
Lose the unions. The second is difficult as there is no way to make the large sums of money beyond the siren call of the corrupt. You could try to put control of the checkbook in the hands of the principals but there is no guarantee the helps.
Special needs ?
As I said I don't object to this. If we can prepare kids for life after school it's a good thing. I'm lucky in that our school system does a really good job with this (some parents of SN kids might disagree) but it means I don't have visibility to problem school systems.
 
Celticguy said:
Drawing the mainstreaming line is very difficult.
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I know but it has to be done somehow. Teachers can't continue to try to teach a classroom range from on the verge of MR to very advanced and expect to be as successful as desired.

Remember cawacko' post earlier that stated that schools were more successful during the days of segregation. I don't believe for a second that he wants [racial] segregation, but think about what else was different back then. I was in school in the 70's and 80's. In elementary school we had a special ed teacher who came at an appointed time during the day to take the few kids out of our class and provide them some special help...usually in reading and math. We in the classroom continued working on a curriculum that challenged the vast majority of us and would have overwhelmed the kids who were taken out. In high school we took different classes because we had that choice available to us and those same special ed kids had labs to go to. They were still separated from the main class at times. Nowadays we can't do that whether it is in the name of labeling kids or whatever. I contend that what was done back then was better for both.
 
Rana said:
No, it doesn't. Equal doesn't mean everyone is failing. What a Negative Ned you are.
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except that it does... it used to be that you had remedial classes, regular classes and advanced. Now, because we don't want to hurt the feelings of some kids, we put those that are struggling to learn in with the average student. That means the teachers then must teach to the lowest common denominator in the class. At the pace of those that struggle to learn quickly. That brings everyone down. It bores the kids that 'get it' the first time it is explained. Which detracts from their learning experience.
 
cawacko said:
In your professional opinion could educational bureaucracy be reduced and schools perform better?
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Keep this in mind... We have 535 people in Congress, put in place to run the country.

We have over 15,000 school districts, each with its own superintendent/staff etc...

We have WAY to much admin in the educational system. (same can be said for the DoD)
 
leaningright said:
I know but it has to be done somehow. Teachers can't continue to try to teach a classroom range from on the verge of MR to very advanced and expect to be as successful as desired.

Remember cawacko' post earlier that stated that schools were more successful during the days of segregation. I don't believe for a second that he wants [racial] segregation, but think about what else was different back then. I was in school in the 70's and 80's. In elementary school we had a special ed teacher who came at an appointed time during the day to take the few kids out of our class and provide them some special help...usually in reading and math. We in the classroom continued working on a curriculum that challenged the vast majority of us and would have overwhelmed the kids who were taken out. In high school we took different classes because we had that choice available to us and those same special ed kids had labs to go to. They were still separated from the main class at times. Nowadays we can't do that whether it is in the name of labeling kids or whatever. I contend that what was done back then was better for both.
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It is a travesty that they don't listen to teachers, anymore.
 
leaningright said:
I know but it has to be done somehow. Teachers can't continue to try to teach a classroom range from on the verge of MR to very advanced and expect to be as successful as desired.

Remember cawacko' post earlier that stated that schools were more successful during the days of segregation. I don't believe for a second that he wants [racial] segregation, but think about what else was different back then. I was in school in the 70's and 80's. In elementary school we had a special ed teacher who came at an appointed time during the day to take the few kids out of our class and provide them some special help...usually in reading and math. We in the classroom continued working on a curriculum that challenged the vast majority of us and would have overwhelmed the kids who were taken out. In high school we took different classes because we had that choice available to us and those same special ed kids had labs to go to. They were still separated from the main class at times. Nowadays we can't do that whether it is in the name of labeling kids or whatever. I contend that what was done back then was better for both.
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To be clear I said that in response to Desh claiming schools were "fully funded" in the '50's and that's why they were so good.
 
cawacko said:
To be clear I said that in response to Desh claiming schools were "fully funded" in the '50's and that's why they were so good.
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Yes, I think I understood that but the "segregated" was what she grabbed onto, hence my supportive statement. There were good things happening in the "old days" right along with the bad. But we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bath water.
 
leaningright said:
Yes, I think I understood that but the "segregated" was what she grabbed onto, hence my supportive statement. There were good things happening in the "old days" right along with the bad. But we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bath water.
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Oh I hear you. :)
 
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