Ignorance and the Bible

gmark77 said:
Which means that atheism simply means without God.
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Okay. And if there is a GOD (something we do not know) an atheist IS WITH A GOD...despite what you "believe."

So unless you are able to provide proof that no gods exist...the only way you can claim to be without a God...is through belief.

gmark77 said:
Which means that it is not a belief system qua belief system.
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There is no doubt that atheism IS a belief system. Anyone using "atheist" as a self-descriptor either BELIEVES there are no gods...or BELIEVES it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.


gmark77 said:
Just as NOT playing baseball is not itself a sport.
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Yeah...and bald is not a hair color.

Atheists love that shit. What they do not love is just acknowledging that the reason they describe themselves as atheists...is because of "beliefs."

This is interesting and fun, Mark. Let's keep at it.
 
Isn't it interesting that people are free to believe that God manifested himself as himself to arrange to sacrifice himself to himself to atone his creation to himself but the minute someone says "I don't necessarily believe that" suddenly they are

1. Unfamiliar with their own atheist position
2. Defining atheism wrong (believers have a different version)
3. Not really an atheist
4. Acting from a position of BELIEF that this didn't happen

It really feels like atheism is a bigger threat to religion than anything else. That's because religion is, at is heart, the acceptance of things without evidence or with a lower bar for what counts as "evidence" and the purveyors of religion realize this inherent weakness in the position so must punch back by merely suggesting atheists aren't really atheists.

Instead of taking atheism as the challenge for them to provide more evidence for their beliefs, they instead try to merely define out of existence the the possibility that someone could lack belief.
 
gmark77 said:
That is the most absurd statement and not worthy of this conversation.
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No absurd at all...totally relevant.

You say you are an atheist...and you also say that atheism means "without a god."

IF a GOD exists...YOU ARE NOT WITHOUT A GOD.

Just using your definition.

So...since you are saying you are without a god...and "belief" has nothing to do with it...

...prove there are no gods.

Or acknowledge that your schtick does not work.
 
Cypress said:
I would press people on what exactly they mean by "scholar".

To me, a scholar is someone with a PhD at a reputable university who does original research in their field of expertise.

I don't consider TikTok 'scholars', YouTube scholars, or Blog scholars to really be in that league.

With that definition in mind, I've never seen evidence that the majority of Religious scholars or Biblical scholars are atheists
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I can’t tell you any particular count, but a good number are. Plus, one needs to differentiate between Biblical scholars and theologians. Different approaches. Different agendas.
 
gmark77 said:
Isn't it interesting that people are free to believe that God manifested himself as himself to arrange to sacrifice himself to himself to atone his creation to himself but the minute someone says "I don't necessarily believe that" suddenly they are

1. Unfamiliar with their own atheist position
2. Defining atheism wrong (believers have a different version)
3. Not really an atheist
4. Acting from a position of BELIEF that this didn't happen

It really feels like atheism is a bigger threat to religion than anything else. That's because religion is, at is heart, the acceptance of things without evidence or with a lower bar for what counts as "evidence" and the purveyors of religion realize this inherent weakness in the position so must punch back by merely suggesting atheists aren't really atheists.

Instead of taking atheism as the challenge for them to provide more evidence for their beliefs, they instead try to merely define out of existence the the possibility that someone could lack belief.
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I agree.

BUT...I demand the same of atheists who BELIEVE...

...that there are no gods...

...or...

...that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Both theists and atheists should deal with their beliefs on the true nature of REALITY.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I agree.

BUT...I demand the same of atheists who BELIEVE...

...that there are no gods...

...or...

...that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Both theists and atheists should deal with their beliefs on the true nature of REALITY.
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totalitarians cannot acknowledge the unknown.

they're too narcissistic.
 
Ross Dolan said:
I agree.

BUT...I demand the same of atheists who BELIEVE...

...that there are no gods...

...or...

...that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

Both theists and atheists should deal with their beliefs on the true nature of REALITY.
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I am not an atheist who believes. I am an IMPLICIT athiest which has been defined for you now multiple times with external resources.

You are free to have your opinion on atheism but just be aware that actual atheists differ from your view. Just as I'm not free to tell you what your philosophy is, you are not free to define my philosophy for me when I've explicitly negated your "opinion" on it.
 
gmark77 said:
I am not an atheist who believes. I am an IMPLICIT athiest which has been defined for you now multiple times with external resources.

You are free to have your opinion on atheism but just be aware that actual atheists differ from your view. Just as I'm not free to tell you what your philosophy is, you are not free to define my philosophy for me when I've explicitly negated your "opinion" on it.
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you mean agnostic.
 
gmark77 said:
I am not an atheist who believes. I am an IMPLICIT athiest which has been defined for you now multiple times with external resources.

You are free to have your opinion on atheism but just be aware that actual atheists differ from your view. Just as I'm not free to tell you what your philosophy is, you are not free to define my philosophy for me when I've explicitly negated your "opinion" on it.
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You claim that atheism means being "without a god."

But IF one god happens to exist...that simply is not correct.

You just want me to accept that there are no gods...so that your belief system is justified.

That's cute.

Even you must adore it.
 
Ross Dolan said:
It is not a negative in your case.
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PRove God does not exist is an attempt to prove a negative.


Ross Dolan said:
Your entire presumption that you are without a god depends on it.
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The burden of proof of any given proposition does NOT rest on the listener. It is on the claimant. Ergo I have no burden of anything.


Ross Dolan said:
But we both know that you cannot establish that there are no gods.
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Just as you cannot prove there are no cows on Mars. They could be hiding underground.

Proving a negative is usually considered impossible. In the case of God it is impossible to prove his lack of existence.

And to suggest that one can is to show that one doesn't understand logic.


Ross Dolan said:
That is simply a "belief" of yours.

Live with it.
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You don't get to define my beliefs. Especially when it is abundantly clear you have a looser grasp of logic and rhetoric.
 
Ross Dolan said:
You claim that atheism means being "without a god."

But IF one god happens to exist...that simply is not correct.

You just want me to accept that there are no gods...so that your belief system is justified.

That's cute.

Even you must adore it.
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I'm tired of you now. Please go bother someone else.
 
domer76 said:
I don’t dictate what Christians do or do not believe. That’s up to the dogma of their own sect.

You can correct me if I’m wrong, but there are at least a couple of precepts that are required.

The Trinity
The acceptance of the resurrection and that Christ died for everyone’s sins.
That the Christian god is omni-everything.
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I'm just laughing at the arrogance of Christophobic bigots once again trying to dictate to Christians what they may or may not believe.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
I'm just laughing at the arrogance of Christophobic bigots once again trying to dictate to Christians what they may or may not believe.
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I did a quick Google on “core Christian beliefs” and this is what was returned.

- the existence of one God who is a Trinity (Father, Son/Jesus, and Holy Spirit),
- the deity of Jesus Christ, his sacrificial death for humanity's sins, his resurrection, and the promise of eternal life through faith in him.

So, it looks like I pretty much nailed it on my own. Feel free to add to that or subtract from it if you like, “Christian”.
 
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