If the universe is infinitely old, how did Today ever get here?

[Into the Night]

No. You assume your position to criticize the other.
There is no such thing as an "infinite amount of time."

Unit error. Time itself is not a quantity, Hugo.

 

[Into the Night]

That's not what the scientists who advocate an eternal universe are saying:

The Theory of the Big Bang is not a theory of science, Sybil. Religion is not science.

 

[Into the Night]

I am not a scientist. The concept of the universe always existing is at least as old as Aristotle.

Older, and Aristotle did not make this argument.

 

[Into the Night]

What is special about today?

I don't ask that to be problematic but rather to point up the concept that if the universe is infinite in time then any point along that time line is as likely as any other.

Which means today is possibly the ONLY day that does exist.

And I haven't even taken an edible today!

A universe has no day or night, Gunky.

 

[Cypress]

What is special about today?

Nothing's special.

But calling today either special, or typical is not an explanation for how we could have somehow gone through an infinite number of days to arrive at today. Infinity is uncountable. It literally does not have a quantifiable limit or value.

That is a logical paradox independent of what kind of value we assign to today.

 

[gmark77]

Nothing's special.

But calling today either special, or typical is not an explanation for how we could have somehow gone through an infinite number of days to arrive at today. Infinity is uncountable. It literally does not have a quantifiable limit or value.

That is a logical paradox independent of what kind of value we assign to today.

I'm still struggling to see it as a "paradox". It is like saying that the set of Real Numbers is infinite so I can't possibly have "5" of anything.

Further we know time passes (as we define it by entropy) so if today is separable from yesterday then of course there is a "today" that is unique.

 

[gmark77]

A universe has no day or night, Gunky.

Please leave this thread alone. It is interesting. You make everything more horrible.

 

[Cypress]

The universe has no day or night, Sybil.

We use Earth-based time units to define the age of the universe at 13.7 billion years.

That should tell you that, prior to this thread, nobody ever had a problem with using Earth-based time units to describe cosmic ages.

 

[Into the Night]

Nothing's special.

But calling today either special, or typical is not an explanation for how we could have somehow gone through an infinite number of days to arrive at today. Infinity is uncountable. It literally does not have a quantifiable limit or value.

That is a logical paradox independent of what kind of value we assign to today.

The universe has no day or night. There is no paradox.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm still struggling to see it as a "paradox".

You should. There is no paradox.

It is like saying that the set of Real Numbers is infinite so I can't possibly have "5" of anything.

That's certainly one way to put it!

Further we know time passes (as we define it by entropy) so if today is separable from yesterday then of course there is a "today" that is unique.

Time is not entropy. Entropy is not time. Entropy stays in the same for the universe. It does not increase.
The universe has no day or night.

 

[Into the Night]

Please leave this thread alone. It is interesting. You make everything more horrible.

I'll comment where I please, Gunky. You just have a bad case of bulverism.

 

[Into the Night]

We use Earth-based time units to define the age of the universe at 13.7 billion years.

And how do you arrive at this magickal number?

That should tell you that, prior to this thread, nobody ever had a problem with using Earth-based time units to describe cosmic ages.

Earth has only existed for a short time. What about when Earth didn't exist?

 

[Cypress]

I'm still struggling to see it as a "paradox". It is like saying that the set of Real Numbers is infinite so I can't possibly have "5" of anything.

Further we know time passes (as we define it by entropy) so if today is separable from yesterday then of course there is a "today" that is unique.

This is simple.

Infinity is uncountable.

Counting requires a numerical origin point and a numerical end point.

There is no origin point in an infinitely old universe to count forward from until it reaches today.


The arrow of time in physics is based on the Past Hypothesis - that there was a fixed time in the past having an initial low entropy state which evolved to a higher entropy state today. That concept is not supporting an infinitely old universe

 

[Cypress]

Earth has only existed for a short time. What about when Earth didn't exist?

Earth has only existed for 4.5 billion years. The universe is supposed to be 13.7 billion years old.

So we still use Earth-based time units to measure times for when Earth didn't exist.
And prior to this thread, nobody ever questioned that.

So your goal and motivation here is to just be an annoying contrarian.

 

[Into the Night]

Earth has only existed for 4.5 billion years. The universe is supposed to be 13.7 billion years old.

How do you know, Sybil? You are just making up numbers again. Argument from randU fallacy.

We still use Earth-based time units to measure times for when Earth didn't exist.

Who is 'we'? Are you having another schizophrenic episode, Sybil?

And prior to this thread, nobody ever questioned that.

You don't get to speak for everyone, Sybil. Omniscience fallacy.

So your goal and motivation here is to just be an annoying contrarian.

You can't blame your problems on me or anybody else, Sybil.

 

[Into the Night]

This is simple.

Infinity is uncountable.

Counting requires a numerical origin point and a numerical end point.

There is no origin point in an infinitely old universe to count forward from until it reaches today.

The universe has no day or night, Sybil.

The arrow of time in physics is based on the Past Hypothesis - that there was a fixed time in the past having an initial low entropy state which evolved to a higher entropy state today. That concept is not supporting an infinitely old universe

There is no 'arrow of time' anywhere in physics where entropy is not changing, Sybil.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The universe is supposed to be 13.7 billion years old.

How do we describe 14 billion years ago, then?

Since I have neither the knowledge nor the intellectual curiosity
to attempt a scientific or mathematical explanation,
I just fall back on infinite time and infinite space.

That wraps up all the loose ends
and lets me think about something else.

 

[Cypress]

The universe has no day or night, Sybil.

Prior to this thread, you never, ever, under any circumstances complained about using Earth-based time units to describe cosmic age scales.

Since you went through the first 75 years of your life without complaining about it - until you got to this thread - your goal here is just to be an annoying contrarian troll.

 

[Cypress]

How do we describe 14 billion years ago, then?

We have a fairly good handle on the expansion rates of the universe, so we just run the clock backwards until the universe reaches it's initial hot, ultra dense state.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

We have a fairly good handle on the expansion rates of the universe, so we just run the clock backwards until the universe reaches it's initial hot, ultra dense state.

Yes. That gives us the exploding dot.
It doesn't give us its origin or what was there before it.

The Kentucky Derby begins at a starting gate and
even actually ends
at a wire about two minutes later.

We don't have a finish time for the Big Bang yet,
but knowing post time doesn't give us the entire history of the universe, does it?