ZenMode
Well-known member
There is no paradox any more than I actually care about potatoes.
You play word games and troll. I ignore it or dismiss it as "incoherent babbling".
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If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book
- Thread starter domer76
- Start date
You play word games and troll. I ignore it or dismiss it as "incoherent babbling".
That happens
I wonder what that's supposed to mean?
So....not written by God, written by fallible men.
The Bible isn't a historical treatise.
The high school or college educated person recognizes there are different literary genres: parable, metaphor, hyperbole, poetry, historical narrative, etc.
The archeological data on the ground does not support a historicity of mass destruction and genocide in the archaic period. The most reasonable literary interpretation is that the Hebrew scribes were using hyperbole and literary licence.
Your strict biblical literalism and your repeated claims of mass genocide are not supported by the data on the ground.
By using high school and college level reasoning, and using the tools of literary criticism our teachers were supposed to teach us.
When Jesus said he was the door, he didn't literally mean he had hinges and a door knob.
Using the tools of literary criticism you were supposed to learn in high school and college, you should be able to reasonably ascertain what is parable, what is metaphor, what is hyperbole, what is poetry, what is historical narrative.
No, it was not Christian. That is why the abolition movement was spearheaded by British Christians and Northern Christians.
Morality is what you ought to do. Humans very frequently do not do what they ought to do.
Hardly anyone on this board follows the golden rule, even though our conscience tells us we should. You can't be on this board for 20 minutes without getting insulted or cussed at.
The fact that you hate the Hebrew Bible does absolutely nothing to disprove or undermine the possibility that a mathematically rational and lawful universe was caused by an underlying rational agency.
Not according to most of the atheists I have debated on the Internet. In fact, most deny that to be the case, which I expected you to do.
So...we are in agreement that theists/religionists "believe" (blindly guess) that at least one god exists...and that atheists "believe" (blindly guess) that no gods exist. We agree that there is no substantive, unambiguous evidence that gods exist and we agree that there is no substantive, unambiguous evidence that no gods exist.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I don't see how that answers my question about God/divine Jesus (vs human Jesus).
The Bible claims, and Christians believe, that there is only one real god in the universe and all the rest are fictional, despite there being stories and writings about them. So, why should anyone believe, if the Bible is full of made up stories, that the God of those stories is any more real than Zeus, Aphrodite, etc?
And, again, you add the made up stories to the laundry list of other inconsistencies in the Bible and it all starts to sound more and more like fairytales.
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ZenMode
Well-known member
No, I don't believe it's a blind guess. I believe there is virtually no evidence for the existence of gods, specifically the ones man has written about, so NOT believing is the logical conclusion, not a blind guess. I also wouldn't say it's a "blind guess" to say unicorns don't exist, for much the same reason it's not a blind guess to say gods don't exist.
Those who believe in a god are the the ones much close to blind guessing, hence their "faith".
Okay, you often "believe" incorrectly. No big deal.
Believing there are no gods,,,IS a blind guess. I have absolutely no problem with you NOT "BELIEVING IN" any gods. As I have mentioned dozens of times to you...I DO NOT "BELIEVE IN" any gods either.
But you say you do "believe" there are no gods...and that is not a logical conclusion in any way. IT IS, instead, A BLIND GUESS despite your desperation to pretend otherwise.
Whatever. We are discussing whether gods exist or not. And the only reasonable answer is, "I DO NOT KNOW."
Any GUESS "Yes at least one does" or "No, none do" are blind guesses. Any guesses about the probability of either YES or NO...also is a blind guess.
Not sure why you are having so much trouble with that.
By the way, how do you know unicorns do not exist...or are you actually saying that unicorns (meaning an equine-like animal with a horn growing out of its forehead) do not exist on planet Earth? How do you know that they are not plentiful on a planet circling a star relatively close to us?
Rephrase the question, because I don't see it
You are confusing metaphor, parable, poetry, hyperbole with lies and fabrications.
Metaphor, poetry, allegory, parable are universally used by humans to articulate universal truths and profound insights.
This is what should have been taught by high school and college literature teachers.
None of your complaints about a few passages in the Hebrew Bible does anything to support atheism. And it definitely doesn't disprove, undermine, dismiss the possibility of a lawful and mathematically rational universe being caused by a rational agency.
ZenMode
Well-known member
I mentioned before that a lot of what we believe are things we have no first hand experience with. A water molecule is 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen. The earth is a sphere. We landed on the moon. Russia interfered in the 2016 election by among other things, hacking Hillary's emails. There was significant voter fraud in the 2020 election.
Of all the things you believe to be true, when you have no first hand knowledge of the topic, do you "believe" all of them at exactly the same level?
Regret or disappointment after consenting is not rape.
In both American jurisprudence and in Christian ethics is illegal and sinful to falsely report a rape and bear false witness against another human.
ZenMode
Well-known member
If the Bible is full of fictitious events and fictitious people, why believe that the god described in the Bible is real?
The Bible isn't a high school assignment. It's a book that a) many people believe is literally true, including what you write off as hyperbole or metaphor and b) believers use as the basis for structuring their lives.
If you are writing off the miraculous events in the Bible, which are the basis for God and divine Jesus, why believe there is a god?
Your conflating metaphor, allegory, poetry, parable, hyperbole with lies and fabrications. That won't work.
Theism isn't limited to Christianity. Atheism isn't defined as disbelief in the religion Zenmode finds most annoying.
The only people I know who read the Bible in a strict and uncompromising literal sense are atheists, and American fundamentalists. That is a very curious fact.
Whether someone reads the Bible as literally true or not does nothing to support atheism, nor undermine the possibility that a lawful and mathematically rational universe was caused by a rational agency.
The only thing you really need to believe in essence to be christian is the death, resurrection, and saving grace of Christ.
You don't have to believe in the historicity of Noah's Ark or the garden of Eden.
The fact that the Hebrew scribes got the reality of God wrong is no more shameful than Galen getting the reality of medical science wrong, or Aristotle getting the reality of physics wrong. One could say they were all basically on the right track and they were asking the right questions.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Why believe that Jesus resurrection wasn't also hyperbole or a metaphor?
Monad Portal
Was it me?
Monad Portal
Was it me?
all are equally untrue literally.
it does work.
its defined as disbelief in any religion.
you've made yourself retarded with all you special pleading imbecilities.
I disagree. the important summary of christianity is to practice the golden rule.
the Hebrews got the racism wrong.
Yes you did. I prefer to word that differently, because for me, the word "believe" is loaded.
I stay away from "believing"...so your question is not one I can answer. But let me give you the courtesy of at least giving you some sort of response that may actually answer what you mean to ask. And I will use the example you offered to do so. If you have others, send them my way.
That is what scientists say...and I have little reason to oppose them. I know water is water...and I don't much think about the constituent parts of its make-up. It simply is not interesting enough for me to to do.
If a scientist were to offer that future scientists may significantly alter that dynamic...I would simply say, "Okay."
Science tells us that the Earth is not a sphere, but rather an oblate spheroid or a geoid. Who am I to question it. If someone were to tell me it is a pancake flat object in space...I would laugh at them. I've seen pictures taken from space...and I accept that they are real pictures taken from space. It looks like a sphere to me, but I accept that physical laws of gravity and torque contort it a bit. It also is something I do not find interesting enough to think about much.
Every indication is that we did. I accept that...just as I accept that we have sent investigative objects into space to study our solar system. We humans are like that...which is the reason we know there is an America of two continents.
I stay away from that kind of thing. If people want to think those things happened (or did not happen)...fine with me. Some conspiracy thoughts may have happened. No way I can figure out which have and which haven't. If Hitler, Elvis Presley or Lee Harvey Oswald are still alive...so be it.