If God were real, you wouldn’t need a book

[ZenMode]

2001 was 24 years ago. You aren't being convincing that global stem cell research has been stopped, stymied, sabotaged by Christianity by pointing to news stories a quarter of a century old.

I said we lost a decade of research. It was actually about 8 years, but those years were lost because of religion.

"Could" have come? Now who is engaging in blind faith and wishful thinking?

You have no evidence that Western science, literacy, art, music, education, universities, social ethics could have just easily come from any other source.

Experimental science is unique to the west, as is western forms of art, music, literature. Capitalism and democracy are unique to the West, and probably have roots in the Protestant reformation. Widespread literacy was unique to the West and is directly attributable to the Bible and Protestantism. Giotto. DaVinci, Bach would not exist without Christianity.

Even the esteemed atheist Bart Ehrman says the Christian social and ethical conscience was unique and did not exist in the Greco-Roman pagan world.

Your claim that Western Civilization would have easily been created in an atheist-irreligious vacuum without Christianity has no basis in fact or evidence.

Just because those things were done by Christians doesn't mean they were done because of Christianity.

 

[Into the Night]

no they have detected in the colliders.

fuck you're so dumb.

Please describe this 'detection'.
You can't see a quark.

 

[Into the Night]

what religions involves trying to convert all the Jews to Christianity ONE MORE TIME.

they have the good news already.

they can choose it if they want.

that is Christ's actual way.

you're insane.

Most Jews don't acknowledge Christ as the Son of God, NoName. Some have, and converted to Christianity.

 

[Into the Night]

Feel free to try to convince CERN, FermiLab, Brookhaven, and Stanford that all the precise properties of quarks they have measured are fallacious and that quarks are not real.

CERN hasn't discovered any quark.

 

[Into the Night]

If a god wanted to allow an adult male to walk on top of water, how would that work? Would the god change the atomic structure of the water to make it a solid?

Water is not an atom. It is a molecule. Whether water is liquid, solid, or gas, the molecule is the same.
Again, you assume that God has no control over his own creation.

 

[Into the Night]

Ambiguous meaning it's only evidence if you already believe in a god.

Nope. I have already presented you with objective evidence. You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void.

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't say God/Jesus violated what we know about science. I said claims made about them violate what we know about science.

Paradox. Irrational. You cannot argue both sides of a paradox, Void. Your word games won't work.

 

[Monad Portal]

Most Jews don't acknowledge Christ as the Son of God, NoName. Some have, and converted to Christianity.

no shit, Shadrach.

 

[Monad Portal]

Please describe this 'detection'.
You can't see a quark.

no thanks.

look it up.

 

[Into the Night]

I didn't say God/Jesus violated what we know about science. I said claims made about them violate what we know about science.

You deny science, Void. You have already ignored the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, the Stefan-Boltzmann law, the ideal gas law, Planck's law, Newton's laws of motion and gravitation, and Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

Nothing about God or Jesus Christ has violated any theory of science.

 

[Into the Night]

The question of how is a question that should be asked. You can't just assume God's exist and they can do such things without asking how.

Sure you can.

If you can't come up with a reasonable way to describe how all of these things can be done, that is evidence against the existence of gods.

Argument of Ignorance fallacy. Attempted negative proof fallacy. Ignorance is not evidence, Void. Try again.

 

[Into the Night]

I am using logic and reason.

You are denying both. A fallacy is an error in logic, similar to the way an arithmetic error is an error in mathematics.

You are turning religion into a scene from Harry Potter/Stranger Things and continuing to confuse probable and possible.

Some people worship a Harry Potter type world. Rowling tries to stop this wackiness, continually saying it's a work of fiction.
The Harry Potter series is a popular one, still enjoyed by people today despite the age of the work. It has become a classic, like the the Ring series by Tolkien. The movies were done well, with the earlier ones depending on 'old school' special effects and not overusing (or even using!) CGI techniques. Even the foley work was well done! It was even more successful than Star Wars.

Harry Potter is not God, the author never claimed that he was God or even god-like. You are making a false equivalence fallacy.

The series is based on a rather weird mashup of stories from many different mythologies and religions over the years and put into a boarding school tableau using magic (for some reason the spells are always in Latin or they don't work!), with Harry as the main protagonist, and Voldemort as the main antagonist. The large cast of characters aiding Harry and those aiding Voldemort make the series that much more entertaining.

I find quidditch, as a game, quite contrived, even more so than cricket. Well, that's the British way, it seems. At least cricket was born out of shear hypochondria. Quidditch seems to have no known origin described in the books.

 

[Into the Night]

Based on faith, not evidence.

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void. Otherwise, you are correct.

ALL religions are based on faith, even yours.

 

[IBDaMann]

I'm confident ...

Your errors are always proportional to your confidence.

It looks like you haven't really done any reading or investigation ...

Translation: I haven't spent any time being gullible and having the internet tell me what religion to worship.

 

[IBDaMann]

@IBDaMann has his own version of science that fits perfectly into this world view.

@ZenMode has his own version of science that fits precisely into his worship of the Climate goddess and aligns with his desperate desire to create energy out of nothing in violation of the 1st LoT.

 

[Cypress]

I said we lost a decade of research. It was actually about 8 years, but those years were lost because of religion.

I'm surprised you used stem cells as a powerful and convincing reason Christianity is evil. It's not the medical panacea we were told it would be 25 years ago. It's importance has so diminished I hardly ever see it in mainstream news sources anymore.

The promise of stem cell research has been hyped and overblown. It was particularly overblown and hyped by the media in those stories from 2001 you are basing your argument on.

Just because those things were done by Christians doesn't mean they were done because of Christianity.

You have zero evidence that the uniqueness of western science, art, music, social conscience, literature, education, literacy, democracy, capitalism would somehow have been cloned and created in an atheist-irreligious vacuum. There is no overarching ideology of atheism that serves as an anchor for inspiration, contemplation, unification, purpose, and meaning for a civilization.

There is plenty of evidence, and even testimony, that these facets of western civilization were directly or indirectly related to the ideological, historical, and unifying factors of European Christianity.

 

[Monad Portal]

You cannot make any evidence just disappear, Void. Otherwise, you are correct.

ALL religions are based on faith, even yours.

but morality is rational.

 

[Monad Portal]

they detected quarks in the colliders.

@IBDaMann
@Into the Night


dumbfucks.

 

[Into the Night]

I've never seen you say there is any redeeming qualities to Christianity, and you are relentlessly negative about it.

He is. On the contrary side, I've never seen you say there is any redeeming qualities to the Church of No God either.

I don't know enough about stem cell research to comment intelligently.

However, I do not recall reading in any reputable science journals that global stem cell research has been thwarted and saotaged by the Methodist or Baptist churches.

No, it's just not an easy field to advance. Only a very few people work in it, and information gathered is often lost and has to be relearned by someone else.

You're forgetting that science and universities were direct outgrowths of a ChristianIzed Europe.

No, they weren't.

Science is completely atheistic. It is not part of Christianity or it's history.
Universities (in the style of what Europe and U.S.), began in Bologna, IT, by students coming together and hiring their professors. Nothing to do with Christianity. This university still operates today.

The universities were a creation of the Catholic church,

No, they weren't.

and all the universities in colonial and post-revolutionary America were founded by Protestants.

No, they weren't.

Experimental science

Science is not 'experiments'.

was never consistently practiced

Science is not a 'practice'.

outside of Christian Europe and North America.

Both Europe and North America have many religions.

The world emulated Western science.

Science is not a compass direction.

America was the most literate society on Earth in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.

No. The 'education' system today is largely an indoctrination system, failing to teach even basic literacy or mathematics, and completely ignoring much of science and even much of history, even national history.

Thus, you have people today that can't even make change properly, can't read beyond a 3rd grade level, if at all, ignore many theories of science, ignore much of mathematics, and have no idea what philosophy even is. Indeed, many do not even speak English or understand many English words.

You can see it here. You are one of them. You are synthesizing a 'history' that never occurred even now.

Why? Because we were Protestant, and Protestants are expected to be able to read the Bible.

Well, you failed there!

It makes eminent sense that experimental science

Science is not 'experiments'.

was rooted in the Christian West.

Christianity is not a compass point.

If you believe in an omniscient monotheistic law-giver, you are going to expect to find lawful behavior in it's creation when you go looking for it. That's what Newton, Galileo, Kepler, Maxwell believed.

But what was created?

The Earth, certainly had an origin. It follows a stable orbit around its barycenter with the Sun. The Moon follows a mostly stable orbit around the barycenter with the Earth (the Moon is moving away from the Earth, increasing in altitude about 1.5 inches a year), while stealing energy from the Earth (causing tides twice a day).

There are two theories of the Universe, one of which you are using to build a paradox.

The Theory of the Big Bang (a religion), which you are using to build a paradox.

The Theory of the Continuum, in which the Universe has always existed and always will.

Assuming the Theory of Creation, God created the Earth.

Random equations are not the Earth.
Random equations are not the Universe. The Universe is unorganized.

 

[Into the Night]

but morality is rational.

Morality is not mathematics.