How many of the executed were innocent???

Return of Dune said:
That's right, even your scenario is not foolproof enough for me to support the death penalty, you see, people always bring up these bizare situations, as you described above, as proof of why the death penalty should continue, yet how many cases are ever that cut and dry?

Really, how many capitol cases are that cut and dry?

My answer is very few, not enough to encourage maintaining the death penalty.

Far too often long term incarcerated are exhonerated. It happens all the time and you know it, therefore, you would knowingly prescribe that a certain percentage of innocent people will be deprived of the ultimate civil right, by the very organisation most dedicated to preserving them. Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me.

Unless, and until we can have perfect proof of guilt, no one should be executed, and since we are but imperfect humans and can produce nothing perfect, that day will never come.
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what is not fool proof dune? you claimed there is no such thing as 100% proof because we are not perfect. step up and explain how that scenario is not fool proof. the scenarior also is not bizarre, murders have happened at weddings. your ignorance is appalling. further, you keep ignoring that i proved someone using your username made a post. that is 100% proof.

do you believe there is any doubt hinkley shot reagan?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
between you and I, you shouldn't rely on intelligence you don't have. I, however, am smarter than you.
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Some dumbed-down sheeple told you that.


Tell me, have any innocent people been convicted of crimes?


Have any people been executed and later found to have been innocent?
 
bravo said:
Well, that about proves beyond a reasonable doubt that pinheads are complete and utter idiots....

Nice job Yurt....thats 2 notches in your belt....Dune and Onecell...
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Here Bravo reinforces what I said in his thread on progress.

One could ask, having veiwed his input, what exactly is the correlation between IQ and conservatism
 
\\(\(\/)/)// said:
Some dumbed-down sheeple told you that.


Tell me, have any innocent people been convicted of crimes?


Have any people been executed and later found to have been innocent?
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yes, innocent people have been convicted of crimes. most likely an innocent person has been executed. that's why we're discussing this. did you miss part of the thread?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
very doubtful, as you managed to put it in another post, that most juries are full of dumbed down sheeple who felt obligated to follow the bullshit directions of the judge instead of exercising their own intellect.
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If this latest posit of yours is even remotely true, then that is all the more reason to NEVER execute people.
 
Yurt said:
what is not fool proof dune? you claimed there is no such thing as 100% proof because we are not perfect. step up and explain how that scenario is not fool proof. the scenarior also is not bizarre, murders have happened at weddings. your ignorance is appalling. further, you keep ignoring that i proved someone using your username made a post. that is 100% proof.

do you believe there is any doubt hinkley shot reagan?
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One more time for the stubborn and slow to comprehend;

Yes, you are able to construct a fantasy scenario in which one would seem to be guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

SO FUCKING WHAT!
Real life is not so cut and dry.

Every year innocent people are wrongfully convicted.
Hence the death penalty is not a safe path for the government to pursue.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
the problem is that your posit about NEVER having 100% proof is false. you're trying to use an extreme hypothetical to prove there is never 100% proof, which is just not true.
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No, the entire problem is that if there is even a possibility that an innocent is executed then the system is unjust.

That posibility does exist, in fact it happens routinely. Pleas note what I am saying to yurt, as well, there is no proof which is perfect enough to garrantee that it never happens.

The proof that I am correct is the fact that we are having this conversation at all, i.e, so far, many, many innocent people have been convicted of crimes, hence no proof is perfect. If the proof were perfect, NO INNOCENT PEOPLOE WOULD EVER HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME THEY DID NOT COMMIT.

How can you argue against reality?
 
Return of Dune said:
One more time for the stubborn and slow to comprehend;

Yes, you are able to construct a fantasy scenario in which one would seem to be guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

SO FUCKING WHAT!
Real life is not so cut and dry.

Every year innocent people are wrongfully convicted.
Hence the death penalty is not a safe path for the government to pursue.
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it matters about YOUR idiotic claim that there can never be 100% proof. you keep deflecting from your claim because you now realize you are wrong. that is why you won't answer my question about hinkley. i knew you would keep spazzing about the hypothetical, so i gave you a real world case and you keep running away from it.

i've already made my opinion clear on the DP. this is about YOUR claim. do try and keep up.
 
Return of Dune said:
No, the entire problem is that if there is even a possibility that an innocent is executed then the system is unjust.
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there is no system of justice that is infallible. we have to do the best that we can.

Return of Dune said:
That posibility does exist, in fact it happens routinely. Pleas note what I am saying to yurt, as well, there is no proof which is perfect enough to garrantee that it never happens.
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this is opinion only, not fact. and i'm referring to some proof not being perfect enough. I don't doubt that some innocent people have been executed. It's tragic. but it's also our fault. Like I said in the other thread, people need to be educated about what their rights and responsibilities are as a juror and not taught to just blindly accept the judges instructions.

Return of Dune said:
The proof that I am correct is the fact that we are having this conversation at all, i.e, so far, many, many innocent people have been convicted of crimes, hence no proof is perfect. If the proof were perfect, NO INNOCENT PEOPLOE WOULD EVER HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME THEY DID NOT COMMIT.
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We're having the conversation to prove that todays system isn't working correctly. The reasons behind that discussion are what's debatable.

Return of Dune said:
How can you argue against reality?
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the only one doing that here is you.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
there is no system of justice that is infallible. we have to do the best that we can.

this is opinion only, not fact. and i'm referring to some proof not being perfect enough. I don't doubt that some innocent people have been executed. It's tragic. but it's also our fault. Like I said in the other
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Right, no system is infallible. Knowing that, why gamble with life and death?

Tragic? That is all? Some mother and father lose their child to the illwill of the government and it is tragic?

The tragedy is that it can happen at all. That is what is tragic.

The best we can do is what Damocles said in his post on the topic. Put the convicted in jail for life. If they are exhonerated, release them, ansd compensate them for their lost time. If they are guilty, let them rot. The death penalty is barbaric, and an indication of our lack of sufficient social evolution.

Killing people is not "the best we can do".
 
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