How does it feel to now be a taxpayer?

Darla said:
That's barring a debate moment. If Obama can get off one moment that really encompasses Romney pushing this very legislation in MA and then signing it into law, Romney will lose the election on that moment. It's there. All the pieces are in place. You have a very loose guy who is fully capable of delivering a devastating insult while still retaining complete likability. You have another guy who is transparently the biggest phony of our lifetime. You have a guy who fully supported a mandate until Obama supported it. If Obama pulls off that moment this legislation can still cost Romney the election.
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Romney really bristles, too. He's a bristler.

He'll get that "If we weren't on national TV, I'd probably try to hold you down & cut your hair off" look, and it will cost him a few million votes....
 
Rana said:
I just had my knees done, I sat in the office for an hour, the doctor walked in, asked if I had any questions,gave me a pen to mark my knees,walked out, I then sat in the office again for another half hour, the PA walked in, listened to my heart, listened to my lungs.

I went to the reception desk to pay, $800.00 please! I was in shock. I do not deny there are some very devoted people in the medical profession, but it is charges like the one above that are obscene.

My surgery took one hour, the doctor's charge alone was $9,083.00. It is just obscene. I realize they have a high cost for education and malpractice insurance, but come on! The MRI's were $5,000.00. Something has to give!

It has become ridiculous!

I have paid out $6,000 dollars so far, that is my 20% so far and I haven't received all the bills, yet!

Other countries with socialized medicine have great doctors and devoted medical personnel and they don't pay what we in the USA pay.

I don't know where we start or how we go about this, but if we don't fix this, I hate to think what will happen.

People should not be denied healthcare because they can't afford it.
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OMG!! If I saw a doctor's bill like that I would have a heart attack and it would end up costing me more and I'd have another heart attack and ..... :lol:
 
General Buck Turgidson said:
Congress already passed the taxes to fund it, Dix. The Supreme Court decision has nothing to do with those taxes, other than the tax on people who don't get insurance.
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I think you might want to look into that, because they certainly didn't pass taxes to pay for Obamacare. The president specifically promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone making over $200k a yr. So how do you figure they passed taxes to pay for 40 million people to get health insurance? Didn't happen! What they did, was take money from Medicare and mandate costs to the states, and run around lying about how it wouldn't increase the debt or deficit. The SCOTUS ruling says they CAN'T do that... the money can't come from Medicare, and the states can't be forced to pay for it out of their Medicare funds. In order to fund this thing, Congress is going to have to enact specific tax legislation, and because it's a tax, a supermajority will be needed in both houses. Again... don't see that happening, but we shall find out come November... maybe people are fine with massive tax increases to pay for Obamacare? You better tap into some of that HOPE!
 
Rana said:
I just had my knees done, I sat in the office for an hour, the doctor walked in, asked if I had any questions,gave me a pen to mark my knees,walked out, I then sat in the office again for another half hour, the PA walked in, listened to my heart, listened to my lungs.

I went to the reception desk to pay, $800.00 please! I was in shock. I do not deny there are some very devoted people in the medical profession, but it is charges like the one above that are obscene.

My surgery took one hour, the doctor's charge alone was $9,083.00. It is just obscene. I realize they have a high cost for education and malpractice insurance, but come on! The MRI's were $5,000.00. Something has to give!

It has become ridiculous!

I have paid out $6,000 dollars so far, that is my 20% so far and I haven't received all the bills, yet!

Other countries with socialized medicine have great doctors and devoted medical personnel and they don't pay what we in the USA pay.

I don't know where we start or how we go about this, but if we don't fix this, I hate to think what will happen.

People should not be denied healthcare because they can't afford it.
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Here's what you need to do, sweetheart... Go out and plop down a cool million for the MRI machine. Then find you a couple of nice radiology techs certified in doing MRIs to run it. Rent your building, and oh... hire a receptionist, pay the necessary fees and licensing... THEN, you can decide what you need to charge in order to pay for all of this and still make enough to buy groceries this week.

I've already explained "other countries" to about every socialist here... We aren't "other countries" ....we have a constitution, and a SCOTUS, and there is a limit to the power our government has to do this sort of thing. We're a free nation, with free market capitalism, and free enterprise. We lead the world in almost every area of technology, science, and medicine, precisely because of this. We don't want to be like "other countries" who can't do this.

If you don't know how to go about fixing this, it's better if you stay out of the way and stop trying to dream up Utopian solutions that can't work. Magic fairies aren't going to come down and make health care things cheap and inexpensive... that isn't going to happen in our universe. Turning our freedoms over to government, is also not going to do a thing about cost... except maybe make it cost more, because the government is picking up the tab and not some poor schmuck on a budget.

And people aren't denied health care because they are poor. I really wish you people would stop spreading that lie. For DECADES we have had, in EVERY state, and every COUNTY, federally-supported state health clinics. These clinics are open normal hours, and are available to anyone who is part of the general public.... (you're part of the general public, right?) If you have low income or no income, you don't pay! It's absolutely FREE to people who can't afford it. If you require some sort of surgery or procedure requiring a hospital, there is Medicaid to pitch in, and the hospital is obligated by law, to give you the care and treatment you require.
 
Dixie said:
Here's what you need to do, sweetheart... Go out and plop down a cool million for the MRI machine. Then find you a couple of nice radiology techs certified in doing MRIs to run it. Rent your building, and oh... hire a receptionist, pay the necessary fees and licensing... THEN, you can decide what you need to charge in order to pay for all of this and still make enough to buy groceries this week.

I've already explained "other countries" to about every socialist here... We aren't "other countries" ....we have a constitution, and a SCOTUS, and there is a limit to the power our government has to do this sort of thing. We're a free nation, with free market capitalism, and free enterprise. We lead the world in almost every area of technology, science, and medicine, precisely because of this. We don't want to be like "other countries" who can't do this.

If you don't know how to go about fixing this, it's better if you stay out of the way and stop trying to dream up Utopian solutions that can't work. Magic fairies aren't going to come down and make health care things cheap and inexpensive... that isn't going to happen in our universe. Turning our freedoms over to government, is also not going to do a thing about cost... except maybe make it cost more, because the government is picking up the tab and not some poor schmuck on a budget.

And people aren't denied health care because they are poor. I really wish you people would stop spreading that lie. For DECADES we have had, in EVERY state, and every COUNTY, federally-supported state health clinics. These clinics are open normal hours, and are available to anyone who is part of the general public.... (you're part of the general public, right?) If you have low income or no income, you don't pay! It's absolutely FREE to people who can't afford it. If you require some sort of surgery or procedure requiring a hospital, there is Medicaid to pitch in, and the hospital is obligated by law, to give you the care and treatment you require.
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LOL

Gee - what do you think pays for that stuff, Dix?
 
Dixie said:
Here's what you need to do, sweetheart... Go out and plop down a cool million for the MRI machine. Then find you a couple of nice radiology techs certified in doing MRIs to run it. Rent your building, and oh... hire a receptionist, pay the necessary fees and licensing... THEN, you can decide what you need to charge in order to pay for all of this and still make enough to buy groceries this week.

I've already explained "other countries" to about every socialist here... We aren't "other countries" ....we have a constitution, and a SCOTUS, and there is a limit to the power our government has to do this sort of thing. We're a free nation, with free market capitalism, and free enterprise. We lead the world in almost every area of technology, science, and medicine, precisely because of this. We don't want to be like "other countries" who can't do this.

If you don't know how to go about fixing this, it's better if you stay out of the way and stop trying to dream up Utopian solutions that can't work. Magic fairies aren't going to come down and make health care things cheap and inexpensive... that isn't going to happen in our universe. Turning our freedoms over to government, is also not going to do a thing about cost... except maybe make it cost more, because the government is picking up the tab and not some poor schmuck on a budget.

And people aren't denied health care because they are poor. I really wish you people would stop spreading that lie. For DECADES we have had, in EVERY state, and every COUNTY, federally-supported state health clinics. These clinics are open normal hours, and are available to anyone who is part of the general public.... (you're part of the general public, right?) If you have low income or no income, you don't pay! It's absolutely FREE to people who can't afford it. If you require some sort of surgery or procedure requiring a hospital, there is Medicaid to pitch in, and the hospital is obligated by law, to give you the care and treatment you require.
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Did you read the post by Rana regarding the charges she racked up just to get some minor knee surgery? It is just obscene, how the fuck do you justify that?
 
Onceler said:
Gee, ya got me. Nice goin'.

However, I would point out that most who pay health insurance premiums also pay taxes. But I realize that Friday afternoons are regularly scheduled for "hairsplitter's anonymous", so....
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???.....it's not hairsplitting.....it's what we were discussing......your comment was simply irrelevant to the discussion.....
 
ZappasGuitar said:
The premiums are split between my wife and her employer.

And I made a mistake...we've got a $500.00 deductible per person.

My cancer surgery a few years back ran me $2,000.00 total, despite over $30,000.00 in various and sundry bills.
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ah, so when you said
Then your insurance company is screwing you over.

My wife, myself and our daughter are all covered under the same typical 80/20 plan.

We pay something like $192.00 a month with a $1,000.00 deductible and $2,000.00 total out of pocket for the year for each of us.
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....you really meant we only have to pay $192 a month because my wife's employer pays the rest and we get it tax free......
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Why do you hate poor people and want then to have to spend more money or be taxed?
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If you are such a strong believer in the Constitution, why do you refuse to accept the verdict of the Supreme Court which is the final arbiter in deciding constitutional issues? Are you anti-American?
 
Onceler said:
LOL

Gee - what do you think pays for that stuff, Dix?
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Well the taxpayers pay for it, you dumbass! The POINT is, we already had "universal care!" We're already paying for this, and have been, for about 60-70 years now. This "myth" you've concocted, that poor people can't get medical attention because they are poor, is just plain BULLSHIT... always has been, always will be!
 
apple0154 said:
You forgot the part about the government offering subsidies to those who earn less. Who is going to be struggling? Do you mean the guy who buys a new car and then can't afford health insurance? Or buys a house with a big mortgage that results in him struggling?
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And where is the government going to get the funds to offer those subsidies?
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
And where is the government going to get the funds to offer those subsidies?
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They could make a very good start by stopping the huge abuses in prescribing unnecessary medications and extortionate consulting fees. I am sure that you would rail against unions like the Teamsters yet the AMA is just a legalised Mafia.
 
Jarod said:
Dixie, you are pittafull!

"CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS concluded in Part III–B that the individ- ual mandate must be construed as imposing a tax on those who do not have health insurance...
" - S.Ct. No. 11–393. Argued March 26, 27, 28, 2012—Decided June 28, 2012*
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Dixie?
 
Dixie said:
The president specifically promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone making over $200k a yr. So how do you figure they passed taxes to pay for 40 million people to get health insurance?
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I know you're ignoring me Dicksee, but you are wrong. Obama promised he wasn't going to raise taxes on anyone making LESS than $200k per year. Obamacare is partially funded with a tax increase for those who make over $250k.

I'm glad FactCheck has finally addressed this. Here's some reading for you that's not from FOX or Breitbart, where you got your original numbers.

http://factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/

Be sure to look at the "Exempt" portion. Here's more from FactCheck:

http://factcheck.org/2012/06/romney-obama-uphold-health-care-falsehoods/

Romney blamed the law for raising taxes and cutting Medicare, two claims that require further explanation.

Romney: Obamacare raises taxes on the American people by approximately $500 billion.

It’s certainly true that the health care law would raise taxes on some Americans, particularly those with higher incomes. The law includes a Medicare payroll tax of 0.9 percent on income over $200,000 for individuals or $250,000 for couples, and a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for those earning that much. The Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that the biggest chunk of revenue — $210.2 billion — comes from those taxes.

There are other taxes in the health care law — including an excise tax on the manufacturers of certain medical devices and on indoor tanning services. The health care law included $437.8 billion in tax revenue over 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation‘s calculations. Republicans tend to add in fees on individuals who don’t obtain health insurance (which the Supreme Court now agrees can be considered taxes) and businesses that don’t provide it to bump that up to about $500 billion.

Some taxes, such as those on medical devices, may or may not be passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices, but a large majority of Americans would not see any direct tax increase from the health care law.

Romney: Obamacare cuts Medicare by approximately $500 billion.

As we have written many times, the law does not slash the current Medicare budget by $500 billion. Rather, that’s a $500 billion reduction in the future growth of Medicare over 10 years, or about a 7 percent reduction in growth over the decade. In other words, Medicare spending would continue to rise, just not as much. The law stipulates that guaranteed Medicare benefits won’t be reduced, and it adds some new benefits, such as improved coverage for pharmaceuticals.

Most of those savings come from a reduction in the future growth of payments to hospitals and other providers (not physicians), and a reduction in payments to private Medicare Advantage plans to bring those payments in line with traditional Medicare. (MA plans have been paid more per beneficiary than traditional Medicare.)

And it assumes they actually happen. There’s good reason to think that some of those reductions won’t be implemented. The law calls for cuts in the future growth of reimbursement payments to hospitals and other health care providers — that accounts for $219 billion of the Medicare savings in the law. But Congress has consistently overridden similar scheduled cuts in payments to doctors.
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Aoxomoxoa said:
Did you read the post by Rana regarding the charges she racked up just to get some minor knee surgery? It is just obscene, how the fuck do you justify that?
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Well Tom, I don't have to justify it, I am not in that business. As I suggested, you or Rana are free to go purchase an MRI machine and hire staff that know how to operate it, and pay for the techs to come out and fix it when it breaks down, etc. It's a free country for now, you are perfectly welcome to go out there and give the public this service at whatever price you determine is fair, and if you can do it cheaper than the guy down the block, I guarantee people will be busting down your door!

Things cost what they do because of supply and demand. Medical stuff costs a lot of money because it involves people's health and lives, and it has to be right. The people who do health care as a profession, have to be paid well for what they do, or you end up with McDonald's fry cooks taking out your appendix, and you don't want that level of quality. Now... Four Seasons resorts would LOVE to lease you a room for $29.99 per night, if they could afford to do that and make the same profits. But in order to offer you the amenities you expect from a Four Seasons resort, they have to charge a lot of money. It's more expensive than other options... they wish it wasn't, because they would be able to corner the market if they could offer their resort for a cheap price... but no matter how much they wish they could, they simply can't. The same general principle applies when we're talking about health care. You can't offer the quality of American health care at Honduran health care prices... it doesn't work that way.
 
Dixie said:
Well Tom, I don't have to justify it, I am not in that business. As I suggested, you or Rana are free to go purchase an MRI machine and hire staff that know how to operate it, and pay for the techs to come out and fix it when it breaks down, etc. It's a free country for now, you are perfectly welcome to go out there and give the public this service at whatever price you determine is fair, and if you can do it cheaper than the guy down the block, I guarantee people will be busting down your door!

Things cost what they do because of supply and demand. Medical stuff costs a lot of money because it involves people's health and lives, and it has to be right. The people who do health care as a profession, have to be paid well for what they do, or you end up with McDonald's fry cooks taking out your appendix, and you don't want that level of quality. Now... Four Seasons resorts would LOVE to lease you a room for $29.99 per night, if they could afford to do that and make the same profits. But in order to offer you the amenities you expect from a Four Seasons resort, they have to charge a lot of money. It's more expensive than other options... they wish it wasn't, because they would be able to corner the market if they could offer their resort for a cheap price... but no matter how much they wish they could, they simply can't. The same general principle applies when we're talking about health care. You can't offer the quality of American health care at Honduran health care prices... it doesn't work that way.
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That is patent bullshit, US private healthcare is a classic cartel where the prices are set according to what the market can stand.
 
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