HIV DOES NOT EQUAL AIDS

[Taichiliberal]

I've recently watched (yet another) feature news program regarding the AIDS epidemic in African countries, and how whole regional populations are being decimated.

Well, here's something that the rest of the world either forgot or does not want to deal with, from one of the people who discovered the HIV virus, Dr. Peter Deusberg.

http://www.duesberg.com/subject/africa2.html

 

[Minister of Truth]

I've recently watched (yet another) feature news program regarding the AIDS epidemic in African countries, and how whole regional populations are being decimated.

Well, here's something that the rest of the world either forgot or does not want to deal with, from one of the people who discovered the HIV virus, Dr. Peter Deusberg.

http://www.duesberg.com/subject/africa2.html

HIV is what causes the count of T-Cells to plummet to the levels at which time the patient is diagnosed as having AIDS. Seriously, how many people contract HIV and die without ever coming down with AIDS?

 

[Mott the Hoople]

HIV is what causes the count of T-Cells to plummet to the levels at which time the patient is diagnosed as having AIDS. Seriously, how many people contract HIV and die without ever coming down with AIDS?

Not many. Unless the virus is in it's lysogenic phase it doesn't have an impact on the autoimmune system.

There seems to be a correalation between immune suppresion and the development of full blown AIDS. It seems those who contract HIV tend to develop AIDS if they have existing autoimmune suppresion due to other reasons, such as, drug abuse, malnutrition, other immune suprresing diseases such as mylaria, etc. It's been hypothethized that one of the reasons HIV was so virulent in gay men was due to their use of amyl nitrates to facilitate anal sex. Amyl nitrate is a well established immune suppresant. It also helps explain why IV drug users are so susceptable to HIV developing into full blown AIDS and why it's been such a problem in Sub-Saharan Africa with it's public health problems and endemic mylaria.

 

[LadyT]

I've read that some people with HIV who never end up developing AIDS can have some kind of genetic immunity.

 

[RockX]

Analysis finding drop in Africa HIV credits Bush project
Associated Press
July 19, 2009, 8:03PM

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — The president of the International AIDS Society says new research indicates the incidence of HIV is decreasing in African countries helped by George W. Bush's AIDS initiative.

Thousands of AIDS experts at an international AIDS conference cheered Sunday when Dr. Julio Montaner announced the result, saying it is from a yet-to-be published analysis of the U.S. President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, called PEPFAR.

Bush's pet project is credited with saving millions of lives. It focused on the worst-hit African countries.

Montaner said: “My research team was able to document a decrease in HIV incidence among PEPFAR focus countries, when compared with non-focus countries, in Africa.”

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6537104.html

LOL

And all this time I thought Bush hated blacks. Kayne West must be very upset that Bush spent all that money trying to combat AIDS in Africa.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I've read that some people with HIV who never end up developing AIDS can have some kind of genetic immunity.

Not really. That's not how the immune system works. The immune systems is a complex chemical cascade system (e.g. compliment) akin to blood clotting and is not really genetically mediated. If you have HIV antibodies and do not express symptoms of the disease AIDS, this indicates that the bodies immune system has functioned properly and has produced the neccessary antigens to counter HIV and that this person would now be immune to HIV but it's not "genetic immunity". However, this person can still potentially pass on the virus to others.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

Analysis finding drop in Africa HIV credits Bush project
Associated Press
July 19, 2009, 8:03PM

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — The president of the International AIDS Society says new research indicates the incidence of HIV is decreasing in African countries helped by George W. Bush's AIDS initiative.

Thousands of AIDS experts at an international AIDS conference cheered Sunday when Dr. Julio Montaner announced the result, saying it is from a yet-to-be published analysis of the U.S. President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, called PEPFAR.

Bush's pet project is credited with saving millions of lives. It focused on the worst-hit African countries.

Montaner said: “My research team was able to document a decrease in HIV incidence among PEPFAR focus countries, when compared with non-focus countries, in Africa.”

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6537104.html

LOL

And all this time I thought Bush hated blacks. Kayne West must be very upset that Bush spent all that money trying to combat AIDS in Africa.

Considering his gross inadequecies and his legacy as a failed President PEPFAR will probably go down as President Bush's most significant accomplishment as a US President and, in this case, he richly deserves the credit for his leadership as does congress and the American people for it's bipartisan support. Keep in mind that PEPFAR also funds the fight against Mylaria and Tuberculosis both of which are vastly greater public health threats than HIV/AIDS.

PEPFAR is probably the biggest US lead public health initiative since the development and dissemination of the Polio vaccine. All Americans, left, right and center can pat themselves on the back for this effort.

 

[LadyT]

Not really. That's not how the immune system works. If you have HIV antibodies and do not express symptoms of the disease AIDS, this indicates that the bodies immune system has functioned properly and has produced the neccessary antigens to counter HIV and that this person would now be immune to HIV. However, this person can still potentially pass on the virus to others.

I never said you can't pass it along. I'm merely stating that I've read that some people who have HIV and never develop AIDS have some sort of natural immunity. In recent years they've focused their study to these people in the hopes developing cures.


http://pozguys.tribe.net/thread/07363ffe-28c0-428f-b255-600843914461

"MARCH 2009: LONG TERM HIV POSITIVES THAT NEVER DEVELOP AIDS SICKNESS USED FOR ANTIBODY PROTOCOLS

In a desperate attempt to reverse 25 years of failure to develop an Aids vaccine, scientists have a new approach: studying people who have been infected with HIV for many years without any signs of ill-health. The patients' secret? Natural immunity. "

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I never said you can't pass it along. I'm merely stating that I've read that some people who have HIV and never develop AIDS have some sort of natural immunity. In recent years they've focused their study to these people in the hopes developing cures.


http://pozguys.tribe.net/thread/07363ffe-28c0-428f-b255-600843914461

"MARCH 2009: LONG TERM HIV POSITIVES THAT NEVER DEVELOP AIDS SICKNESS USED FOR ANTIBODY PROTOCOLS

In a desperate attempt to reverse 25 years of failure to develop an Aids vaccine, scientists have a new approach: studying people who have been infected with HIV for many years without any signs of ill-health. The patients' secret? Natural immunity. "

I wasn't criticizing your post. Just pointing it out that one could still pass on the virus.

The concept of "Natural Immunity" in HIV/AIDS is probably better understood then the question as to why those infected with the virus do not develop natural immunity. As I said previously. The fact that someone should be exposed to HIV, test positive to HIV antibodies but be asymptomatic of AIDS is indicative of normal immune response function (i.e. natural immunity). Studying anitbody protocols of asymptomatic HIV persons could provide much insite into this process and could help to develop a vaccine.

However, I suspect that the results will correalate to some sort of impairment of the immune system itself that is not genettically related.

 

[Taichiliberal]

HIV is what causes the count of T-Cells to plummet to the levels at which time the patient is diagnosed as having AIDS. Seriously, how many people contract HIV and die without ever coming down with AIDS?

Not necessarily.....HIV can be found in people who have had seasonal flus or other infections like upper respiratory and survive. HIV in and of itself is NOT a killer virus per se....but that's how it's being treated to keep the machine humming.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Not many. Unless the virus is in it's lysogenic phase it doesn't have an impact on the autoimmune system.

There seems to be a correalation between immune suppresion and the development of full blown AIDS. It seems those who contract HIV tend to develop AIDS if they have existing autoimmune suppresion due to other reasons, such as, drug abuse, malnutrition, other immune suprresing diseases such as mylaria, etc. It's been hypothethized that one of the reasons HIV was so virulent in gay men was due to their use of amyl nitrates to facilitate anal sex. Amyl nitrate is a well established immune suppresant. It also helps explain why IV drug users are so susceptable to HIV developing into full blown AIDS and why it's been such a problem in Sub-Saharan Africa with it's public health problems and endemic mylaria.

You should find this interesting:

http://www.duesberg.com/papers/continu1.html

 

[Taichiliberal]

Analysis finding drop in Africa HIV credits Bush project
Associated Press
July 19, 2009, 8:03PM

CAPE TOWN, South Africa — The president of the International AIDS Society says new research indicates the incidence of HIV is decreasing in African countries helped by George W. Bush's AIDS initiative.

Thousands of AIDS experts at an international AIDS conference cheered Sunday when Dr. Julio Montaner announced the result, saying it is from a yet-to-be published analysis of the U.S. President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, called PEPFAR.

Bush's pet project is credited with saving millions of lives. It focused on the worst-hit African countries.

Montaner said: “My research team was able to document a decrease in HIV incidence among PEPFAR focus countries, when compared with non-focus countries, in Africa.”

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/world/6537104.html

LOL

And all this time I thought Bush hated blacks. Kayne West must be very upset that Bush spent all that money trying to combat AIDS in Africa.

A little reality check for our resident neocon parrot.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=how_bushs_aids_program_is_failing_africans

 

[Taichiliberal]

Considering his gross inadequecies and his legacy as a failed President PEPFAR will probably go down as President Bush's most significant accomplishment as a US President and, in this case, he richly deserves the credit for his leadership as does congress and the American people for it's bipartisan support. Keep in mind that PEPFAR also funds the fight against Mylaria and Tuberculosis both of which are vastly greater public health threats than HIV/AIDS.

PEPFAR is probably the biggest US lead public health initiative since the development and dissemination of the Polio vaccine. All Americans, left, right and center can pat themselves on the back for this effort.

Good points, but as with all things Shrub, the devil is in the details:

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=how_bushs_aids_program_is_failing_africans

 

[Taichiliberal]

Not really. That's not how the immune system works. The immune systems is a complex chemical cascade system (e.g. compliment) akin to blood clotting and is not really genetically mediated. If you have HIV antibodies and do not express symptoms of the disease AIDS, this indicates that the bodies immune system has functioned properly and has produced the neccessary antigens to counter HIV and that this person would now be immune to HIV but it's not "genetic immunity". However, this person can still potentially pass on the virus to others.

Which is not, for the most part, a dire situation, since HIV is found in people who have had a very nasty cold or flu. That is what has to be stressed to people, and that is what Deusberg is trying to do.

 

[LadyT]

Which is not, for the most part, a dire situation, since HIV is found in people who have had a very nasty cold or flu. That is what has to be stressed to people, and that is what Deusberg is trying to do.

Do you have links to any studies about this?

Thorn,

Is this true?

 

[Thorn]

Do you have links to any studies about this?

Thorn,

Is this true?

Those conditions are mutually exclusive, i.e. not related except that the flu can be a challenge to the immune system. It is entirely possible for someone who is HIV positive to contract something like the flu and not develop fullblown AIDS. HIV in most inflicted people weakens the immune system functioning. Not necessarily right away, but ultimately, again in most patients, it does. Why certain individuals do not develop the full syndrome is still a mystery. Given the way that vaccines work, I'm not certain that this is really the best approach. So much further work is needed and not nearly enough questions have even been asked yet, let alone answered, even in part.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Do you have links to any studies about this?

Thorn,

Is this true?

Scan this site, it's a goldmine

www.duesberg.com

 

[LadyT]

Those conditions are mutually exclusive, i.e. not related except that the flu can be a challenge to the immune system. It is entirely possible for someone who is HIV positive to contract something like the flu and not develop fullblown AIDS. HIV in most inflicted people weakens the immune system functioning. Not necessarily right away, but ultimately, again in most patients, it does. Why certain individuals do not develop the full syndrome is still a mystery. Given the way that vaccines work, I'm not certain that this is really the best approach. So much further work is needed and not nearly enough questions have even been asked yet, let alone answered, even in part.

So if you weren't infected withbeforehand HIV, and you get a really nasty cold or flu, is it possible to find HIV in a person?

 

[Thorn]

So if you weren't infected withbeforehand HIV, and you get a really nasty cold or flu, is it possible to find HIV in a person?

No. You have to be exposed specifically to the HIV virus. Colds and flu are exposed mainly by touch, contrary to what most people think. You sneeze or cough into your hand, for instance, then open a door or push a shopping cart. The next person touches the door handle, then touches their mouth, or eye, or something. Cold/flu viruses also can be airborne so you wouldn't want someone sneezing into your face for example!

The HIV virus is spread exclusively via blood and blood products, including semen. It may remain dormant for years in an infected person before it leads to the development of AIDS, but can be detected by routine testing. HIV and other viruses, such as colds and flus, are completely independent of one another.

That doesn't mean that someone who has succumbed to the immune deficiency effects of HIV wouldn't be more vulnerable to the effects of other viruses; a compromised immune system certainly cannot fight against other infections in the way that a healthy system would. But you'll never get HIV from a cold or flu virus. They're different animals entirely and are transmitted via different vectors.

 

[LadyT]

No. You have to be exposed specifically to the HIV virus. Colds and flu are exposed mainly by touch, contrary to what most people think. You sneeze or cough into your hand, for instance, then open a door or push a shopping cart. The next person touches the door handle, then touches their mouth, or eye, or something. Cold/flu viruses also can be airborne so you wouldn't want someone sneezing into your face for example!

The HIV virus is spread exclusively via blood and blood products, including semen. It may remain dormant for years in an infected person before it leads to the development of AIDS, but can be detected by routine testing. HIV and other viruses, such as colds and flus, are completely independent of one another.

That doesn't mean that someone who has succumbed to the immune deficiency effects of HIV wouldn't be more vulnerable to the effects of other viruses; a compromised immune system certainly cannot fight against other infections in the way that a healthy system would. But you'll never get HIV from a cold or flu virus. They're different animals entirely and are transmitted via different vectors.

OK, just checking. everytime I hear something new about HIV/AIDS it seems be completely different from what I previously thought.

Just making sure.