History of Segregationist Housing in the U.S.

cawacko

Well-known member
BAC, you claim I have an agenda wanting more housing built. What is my end game in your opinion? Why would I care, or post, something like this then? This is the CATO Institute writing this article here. Much of the black/white wealth divide is due to housing and blacks weren't able to purchase housing back when it was cheap, and once the laws finally changed values had climbed so much they were already priced out.

Should this not be spoken about? Should I or others not push for more housing development in urban areas where prices are rising and people of color are forced out?

My ultimate agenda is to see where I live stay economically competitive and to do that we need workers in all income levels and pricing out businesses and workers with such high housing prices doesn't help us achieve that.






Knowing about Segregationist Housing Policy Is the First Step to Justice



In education, there is a widespread belief: the federal government ended segregation. This is, of course, based on the Supreme Court’s landmark ruling in Brown v. Board of Education, and subsequent federal efforts to end segregated schooling. But as a sobering new book by the Economic Policy Institute’s Richard Rothstein makes clear, while all levels of government forced, coerced, or cajoled racial segregation through housing policy, the feds may have been the worst, and the crippling legacy of those actions may be much further reaching than even schooling policy.

The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America is essentially a catalogue of discriminatory housing policies perpetrated throughout the 20th Century, but peaking from the 1930s through the 1960s. It chronicles local injustices including police ignoring or even stoking mobs that tormented African Americans who dared buy a home in a white neighborhood, and states with segregationist intent mandating local referenda to approve low-income family public housing. But it is the federal government that seems to have had the most powerful hand in it all, if for no other reason than only it could sweep every American into the corners where it decided they did—or did not—belong.

Much of the major federal impact started with the New Deal and World War II. As Washington sought to provide housing first for the economically displaced, then for workers at newly opened arsenal-of-democracy factories, racial segregation was the norm. Rothstein examines the case of Richmond, California, not far from uber-progressive Berkeley where he lives. He writes:

From 1940 to 1945, the influx of war workers resulted in Richmond’s population exploding from 24,000 to more than 100,000. Richmond’s black population soared from 270 to 14,000….With such rapid population growth, housing could not be put up fast enough. The federal government stepped in with public housing. It was officially and explicitly segregated. Located along railroad tracks and close to the shipbuilding area, federally financed housing for African Americans in Richmond was poorly constructed and intended to be temporary. For white defense workers government housing was built farther inland, closer to white residential areas, and some of it was sturdily constructed and permanent. Because Richmond had been overwhelmingly white before the war, the federal government’s decision to segregate public housing established segregated living patterns that persist to this day.
Discriminatory poison was spread even more widely by Washington via housing assistance programs, especially Federal Housing Administration-backed loans that were awarded with relative ease for white people moving into white neighborhoods, or developers aiming to build housing for whites, while freezing out African Americans. Levittowns—massive developments of cookie-cutter houses that made thousands of people homeowners—illustrate the crippling consequences of discriminatory aid. While access to good, affordable housing had many immediate benefits, the long-term consequences of such access may have been even greater—accumulation of wealth:

By the time the federal government decided finally to allow African Americans into the suburbs, the window of opportunity for an integrated nation had mostly closed. In 1948, for example, Levittown homes sold for about $8,000, or about $75,000 in today’s dollars. Now, properties in Levittown without major remodeling…sell for $350,000 and up. White families who bought those homes in 1948 have gained, over three generations, more than $200,000.
While white homeowners were living in, essentially, little banks, African Americans were often renters, accumulating no equity, or owners of far less desirable houses. It is a major reason that African Americans typically have only a tiny fraction of the accumulated wealth of whites.

The question this shameful history inevitably leads to, of course, is what can we do to remedy its effects? But many, if not all, of the possible answers carry major unintended consequences, likely one reason that Rothstein is hesitant to propose any in the book. His other reason is that the vast majority of people likely have little if any knowledge of the history he recounts, and knowledge of the disease must precede a cure. Such ignorance may be manifested in the tendency to see Washington as a savior against all discrimination, or my own mental imagery of housing discrimination before reading this book, consisting of hazy apparitions of homeowners entering covenants against selling to African Americans, or realtors redlining neighborhoods, but no concrete government policies essentially requiring such things.

Rothstein only outlines some food-for-thought proposals, including the federal government buying for-sale houses in Levittowns at today’s prices and selling them to African Americans at the price their grandparents would have paid, or ending zoning requiring that homes be built only on large—and expensive—lots.

My own, still embryonic thought is that solutions may have to eschew overtly race-based remedies, even though the wrong we’re trying to right was indisputably grounded in race. Clichéd though it may seem, “two wrongs do not make a right” feels correct: moving from race-based preferences for whites to such preferences for African-Americans, even to ameliorate unquestionable racial injustice, seems unacceptable. We must have preferences for no race under the law, but rather equal treatment for all.

Perhaps more practically, we have seen powerful evidence with policies ranging from affirmative action to forced busing that race-based policies foster resentment and can ignite conflicts that may well make matters worse. We should also be clear-eyed that even if we tear down all barriers to housing integration we may not see much of it, at least not at first. Research has repeatedly found that people are strongly inclined to self-segregate. Indeed, even in schools where physical integration has largely been achieved, friendship groups are often decidedly homogenous.

Perhaps the solution is to focus not on policy prescriptions, but to constantly and powerfully educate the public about the massive injustice that has been done—the primary goal of Rothstein’s volume. Then change efforts should be concentrated on an avenue we too often forget: civil society—individuals voluntarily forming communities that take collective action, such as churches, Kiwanis clubs, Habitat for Humanity, or any other groups people freely choose to form. They could perhaps pool funds to help African Americans purchase homes, or reach out to black communities and say “consider moving where we live, and if you come we will greet you with open arms,” or other potential actions.

Does this feel satisfactory in light of the grave injustice that has been done? No. But it seems crucial that government cease putting its thumb on the scale for any race, both as a matter of principle and of practical effect. No one would be forced to help make things right, but they may well feel compelled. Compelled by the conviction, grounded in knowledge, that African Americans have been grievously wronged, and that we should all strive to set things, as closely as possible, right.


https://www.cato.org/blog/knowing-a...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
 
I didn't say your agenda was wanting more housing built .. that's news to me.

I said your agenda was attacking the Left on issues where your side has always been the impediment, like free speech and fair housing. Liberals and the Left have done FAR, FAR more in support of both issues than your side ever will.

If these are your issues, shouldn't you be challenging the people you vote for?
 
I didn't say your agenda was wanting more housing built .. that's news to me.

I said your agenda was attacking the Left on issues where your side has always been the impediment, like free speech and fair housing. Liberals and the Left have done FAR, FAR more in support of both issues than your side ever will.

If these are your issues, shouldn't you be challenging the people you vote for?

Look where I live. Do you think it's Republicans preventing housing from being built? There are no Republicans in the Bay Area. So how are liberals doing more to create more affordable housing? Look at Texas and their zoning laws compared to California. There's a reason housing in Texas is so much more affordable. Developers are allowed to build. Do you think it's right-wingers fighting the keep CEQA laws in California which allow individuals to stop or delay almost any development?

Not everything is Republican vs. Democrat. That's too simplistic.
 
Look where I live. Do you think it's Republicans preventing housing from being built? There are no Republicans in the Bay Area. So how are liberals doing more to create more affordable housing? Look at Texas and their zoning laws compared to California. There's a reason housing in Texas is so much more affordable. Developers are allowed to build. Do you think it's right-wingers fighting the keep CEQA laws in California which allow individuals to stop or delay almost any development?

Not everything is Republican vs. Democrat. That's too simplistic.

HISTORY is where liberals have decidedly created more affordable housing. Do I need to post the evidence of that obvious truth?

I don't know your area, don't know the dynamics of that situation .. but I do know there are indeed republicans living there .. which I've already proven many times.

If the Bay area is heavily populated by the Left and liberals who stand against affordable housing .. then please tell me how it is that affordable housing measures throughout the Bay area are passing by WIDE margins?

Who is passing these measures .. non-existent republicans?
 
HISTORY is where liberals have decidedly created more affordable housing. Do I need to post the evidence of that obvious truth?

I don't know your area, don't know the dynamics of that situation .. but I do know there are indeed republicans living there .. which I've already proven many times.

If the Bay area is heavily populated by the Left and liberals who stand against affordable housing .. then please tell me how it is that affordable housing measures throughout the Bay area are passing by WIDE margins?

Who is passing these measures .. non-existent republicans?

There are no Republican representatives in the Bay Area. The City of SF has none, there are no Republicans where who make legislation in the Bay Area. We don't build enough housing to meet demand thus our prices have skyrocketed. Liberals want "affordable" housing built, i.e. subsidized by tax payers, but not market rate housing. We don't live in Cuba where the gov't owns all the housing. There has to be market rate housing.

So considering it's a pro development Dems vs anti development Dems issue here I'm not sure how your focus is on Republicans vs. Democrats.
 
There are no Republican representatives in the Bay Area. The City of SF has none, there are no Republicans where who make legislation in the Bay Area. We don't build enough housing to meet demand thus our prices have skyrocketed. Liberals want "affordable" housing built, i.e. subsidized by tax payers, but not market rate housing. We don't live in Cuba where the gov't owns all the housing. There has to be market rate housing.

So considering it's a pro development Dems vs anti development Dems issue here I'm not sure how your focus is on Republicans vs. Democrats.

That's all a good thing .. but you didn't answer my question.

OBVIOUSLY it is liberals and the Left who are behind passing all this progressive housing legislation .. by WIDE MARGINS.

Where does your argument go from that truth?

Not sure why your argument focuses on liberals .. who are passing the legislation.

That is where your argument fails.
 
That's all a good thing .. but you didn't answer my question.

OBVIOUSLY it is liberals and the Left who are behind passing all this progressive housing legislation .. by WIDE MARGINS.

Where does your argument go from that truth?

Not sure why your argument focuses on liberals .. who are passing the legislation.

That is where your argument fails.

My guess is you are talking about gov't owned housing. That's not what's being discussed (though they did in the article). California isn't going to get out of its housing crisis by building more gov't housing.

As a socialist making market rate housing is anathema to you hence the focus on gov't housing.

But it is liberal backed policies that are the cause of our housing crisis.
 
"affordable housing"? "progressive housing legislation"?
lolol

let me translate those for you,
I pay for your housing so that liberals can feel good about themselves and the moochers will vote "D"
 
My guess is you are talking about gov't owned housing. That's not what's being discussed (though they did in the article). California isn't going to get out of its housing crisis by building more gov't housing.

As a socialist making market rate housing is anathema to you hence the focus on gov't housing.

But it is liberal backed policies that are the cause of our housing crisis.

Much of the legislation will finance the construction and rehabilitation of affordable rental units, loans for moderate-income homebuyers and upgrades to existing low-income housing.

What more do you want?

If you want to se affordable housing, shouldn't you be voting for these measures and the liberals who pass them instead of attacking them when your side isn't doing squat?
 
Much of the legislation will finance the construction and rehabilitation of affordable rental units, loans for moderate-income homebuyers and upgrades to existing low-income housing.

What more do you want?

If you want to se affordable housing, shouldn't you be voting for these measures and the liberals who pass them instead of attacking them when your side isn't doing squat?

BAC, CEQA laws and others here prevent development. I know you know how markets work. If you don't build in an area were there is an increase in demand what's going to happen to prices? They go up.

The history of segregation in housing was based on zoning laws and where people could live. Today zoning laws are being used to prevent development which has the same net effect of pricing people out. Democrats have a super majority in California. Democrats run the Bay Area. I'm not sure why you are so focused on Republicans here. There are people here who don't want any market rate housing built, maybe you are in that group.
 
BAC, CEQA laws and others here prevent development. I know you know how markets work. If you don't build in an area were there is an increase in demand what's going to happen to prices? They go up.

The history of segregation in housing was based on zoning laws and where people could live. Today zoning laws are being used to prevent development which has the same net effect of pricing people out. Democrats have a super majority in California. Democrats run the Bay Area. I'm not sure why you are so focused on Republicans here. There are people here who don't want any market rate housing built, maybe you are in that group.

exactly,
people crying for affordable housing just want to say they are trying to "help".
Not "helping" anyone to in any way encourage getting on the system and staying there for generations, teaching your next generation how to work the system.
Poverty needs a good dose of reality, not a handout.
 
exactly,
people crying for affordable housing just want to say they are trying to "help".
Not "helping" anyone to in any way encourage getting on the system and staying there for generations, teaching your next generation how to work the system.
Poverty needs a good dose of reality, not a handout.

this isn't about poverty or teaching the poor a lesson. Middle class people are leaving the area and state because of the cost of housing. It's about letting new development occur to meet the demand. Yet people here fight tooth and nail against it.
 
BAC, CEQA laws and others here prevent development. I know you know how markets work. If you don't build in an area were there is an increase in demand what's going to happen to prices? They go up.

The history of segregation in housing was based on zoning laws and where people could live. Today zoning laws are being used to prevent development which has the same net effect of pricing people out. Democrats have a super majority in California. Democrats run the Bay Area. I'm not sure why you are so focused on Republicans here. There are people here who don't want any market rate housing built, maybe you are in that group.

Why am I so focused on republicans?

Because you're a republican trying to point fingers at liberals and democrats. If I was having this discussion with not-a-republican, we would be talking about the issue, not fingers. The history of segregation views liberals as heroes, not villains.

California has a HUGE housing problem just about everywhere because they've got too many people living on too little space.

As I've said, I don't know the all the dynamics of the Bay Area situation .. but what I do know is that it isn't because 'liberals don't want non-white people living next to them.' That's a meme.

I lived in California for many years. Ever talk about affordable housing in San Diego where republicans rule?

This isn't even about segregation. It's about too many people living on too little space.
 
this isn't about poverty or teaching the poor a lesson. Middle class people are leaving the area and state because of the cost of housing. It's about letting new development occur to meet the demand. Yet people here fight tooth and nail against it.

I understand what you are saying, but it's all tied in.
the rising cost of affordable housing for the middle class means nothing to those crying for "affordable housing".
They mean free housing for the do nothings while the working class is struggling to come up with a down payment and pay an out of control mortgage every month.
They are all tied in to entitlement vs self respect.

talking to people like this blackascoal character is like talking to a tree stump.
he's probably this miserable black man that grew up in the sixties angry, changed to feeling sorry for himself when he struggled like the rest of us, back to anger.

The affordable housing you speak of means nothing to him. Either switch it to "black people being held down by the white man" or talk to someone else.
 
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Why am I so focused on republicans?

Because you're a republican trying to point fingers at liberals and democrats. If I was having this discussion with not-a-republican, we would be talking about the issue, not fingers. The history of segregation views liberals as heroes, not villains.

California has a HUGE housing problem just about everywhere because they've got too many people living on too little space.

As I've said, I don't know the all the dynamics of the Bay Area situation .. but what I do know is that it isn't because 'liberals don't want non-white people living next to them.' That's a meme.

I lived in California for many years. Ever talk about affordable housing in San Diego where republicans rule?

This isn't even about segregation. It's about too many people living on too little space.

perfect example of why things never get done, the idea that because we are 'opponents' we can't agree on anything or discuss possible solutions; it has to be an "us vs them" mentality and war like mindset.

We have plenty of room to build in California. We choose to make much of it off limits. Compare pricing in SD to LA or the Bay Area. Expensive still yes but much more affordable.

I've spoken before the San Francisco Planning Commission and Board of Supervisors in attempts to get approvals for a residential development. I've seen first hand how people try and stop development.

The very real world result is California has huge economic inequality because the middle class can't afford to live here. I care because I don't want to live in an area of rich and poor only which is what the Bay Area is becoming. You clearly don't have an issue with the lack of development and that's fine, to each his own, but that's the cause of our housing crisis.
 
First, you're the proponent of 'market forces' not me. :0)

Of course we can talk about serious issues .. that have been properly framed. Segregation is not the issue here. Too many people is the issue.

California faces serious issues of resources and over-population.

Start from there and we can have a good conversation about this.
 
First, you're the proponent of 'market forces' not me. :0)

Of course we can talk about serious issues .. that have been properly framed. Segregation is not the issue here. Too many people is the issue.

California faces serious issues of resources and over-population.

Start from there and we can have a good conversation about this.

Yes, it is market forces, in this case more development, that will get us out of this crisis. If the goal is to reduce California's population we're doing a good job by pricing poor and middle class out. But the native population gets back filled my many people here illegally so as long as that is continued to be allowed we aren't reducing our overall population.
 
Why am I so focused on republicans?

Because you're a republican trying to point fingers at liberals and democrats. If I was having this discussion with not-a-republican, we would be talking about the issue, not fingers. The history of segregation views liberals as heroes, not villains.

California has a HUGE housing problem just about everywhere because they've got too many people living on too little space.

As I've said, I don't know the all the dynamics of the Bay Area situation .. but what I do know is that it isn't because 'liberals don't want non-white people living next to them.' That's a meme.

I lived in California for many years. Ever talk about affordable housing in San Diego where republicans rule?

This isn't even about segregation. It's about too many people living on too little space.

It's a meme, except in practice.
 
Yes, it is market forces, in this case more development, that will get us out of this crisis. If the goal is to reduce California's population we're doing a good job by pricing poor and middle class out. But the native population gets back filled my many people here illegally so as long as that is continued to be allowed we aren't reducing our overall population.

Market forces are your problem. If people are willing to pay through the nose to live in California, who are we to oppose that .. according to people who believe in the rule of market forces. I don't.

The hard truth is that although you live in California, it's not your state. People who just got there 5 minutes ago have just as much claim to it as you do.

More development means more strain on the state's resources .. not the least of which is water.

california-traffic-save-water-AP_281311805550.jpg


California’s Drought Is Part of a Much Bigger Water Crisis. Here’s What You Need to Know
https://www.propublica.org/article/california-drought-colorado-river-water-crisis-explained
 
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