Hey BAC! Can you BELIEVE that this guy thinks Obama is a Black President?

Socrtease said:
I make no such claim at all you simpleton fuck! I know that racism is still alive and well in america. One need only look to the shooting by the BART officer to know that. But you want us to believe that because Obama is not toting JUST the black man's water, that he has chosen to lead a country and not just a small group of people, that makes him some how less black than he is. You are the one doing EXACTLY what I pointed out in an earlier post, he refuses to be just like you so "he ain't black enough."
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The BART shooting could well be just some scared and wrong cop that acted like an idiot. He should be prosecuted but sole acts are not proof of any mass feeling of any kind.

On the other side, I think you miss Bac's bigger point, that there are some number of Liberal whites who are viewing Obama's position in power as perhaps not the end of racism but the strongest thing they can to do to rid themselves of any societal liability over past acts of racism.
And I'm not including you in that, I consider both you and BAC to be independent thinkers.
 
Topspin said:
I like BAC
But SOC nice BURN
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I don't dislike BAC either, but he wants to pretend that because I am not black I can have no opinion on things black, even though he freely admits that Bill Clinton was called the first black president because for a white guy he had an affinity for Black people and Black issues. So only if you agree with BAC can you have an opinion about such things but if you disagree you are a racists that has no clue about the black community or black issues. His opinion of Obama is just like his opinion of Cosby, because they refuse to see the victimization in everything, and ask people to take some responsibility for their own lives then they "ain't black enough". It is bullshit.
 
Socrtease said:
I make no such claim at all you simpleton fuck! I know that racism is still alive and well in america. One need only look to the shooting by the BART officer to know that. But you want us to believe that because Obama is not toting JUST the black man's water, that he has chosen to lead a country and not just a small group of people, that makes him some how less black than he is. You are the one doing EXACTLY what I pointed out in an earlier post, he refuses to be just like you so "he ain't black enough."
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Fuck you moron.

How fucking many times do I have to repeat that NOBODY, including me you fucking asswipe, expects Obama to be the black president. You continue toi invent what I am not saying so you can have a goddamn point.

No more would be expected of him than would be expected by women if Hillary Clinton was the president.

If you didn't get it that time you stupid son-of-a-bitch then you won't because I'm done talking to your ignorant ass about it.
 
KingCondanomation said:
On the other side, I think you miss Bac's bigger point, that there are some number of Liberal whites who are viewing Obama's position in power as perhaps not the end of racism but the strongest thing they can to do to rid themselves of any societal liability over past acts of racism.
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This.

I think two very intelligent people are sailing parallel courses.
 
Dungheap said:
Revenge of the Danedote.

I know this one white guy that voted for Obama because Obama isn't a very good bowler. I mean, obviously Obama is a great speaker and people are angry at Republicans, but bowling plays into it too.
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I actually got that from a magazine article a long time ago where the author was trying to show both sides and trying to get a feeling for where Obama's support is coming from. He was also unabashedly pro-Obama but did make small effort to show some other points.
Let's face it, there are a lot of lefty whites who are jumping for joy over the election of the first black president. Yet it begs wondering about such strong support for someone who is black when they've had opportunities to vote for a black president in the past. One is left wondering, why this time with Obama?
And my answer is that yes he's a great speaker but more than that there are these lingering feelings and comments you get from whites who like him that they are making a statement and looking to expunge their collective guilt and Obama is the vehicle to make it happen.
I mean what stronger statement can a group make to try and pretend that there is a new America than to elect someone who is black to the highest office you can?

You are just doing damage control and strong intellectual though you are, you always immediately dismiss any firsthand comment from anyone that is not on the left as anecdotal without first even bothering to contrast it against your own personal gut and experience in gauging whether it has any larger relevance to how things are. Sometimes I wonder if you've really every gone out in life and had any experiences with people different than yourself.
 
blackascoal said:
Fuck you moron.

How fucking many times do I have to repeat that NOBODY, including me you fucking asswipe, expects Obama to be the black president. You continue toi invent what I am not saying so you can have a goddamn point.

No more would be expected of him than would be expected by women if Hillary Clinton was the president.

If you didn't get it that time you stupid son-of-a-bitch then you won't because I'm done talking to your ignorant ass about it.
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No nothing is expected of him by you, but when Damo posted the BBC video with MLK and seeing a black president your comment was "Too bad we never got one." That is what this whole argument has been about, you thinking the President doesn't possess the bona fides to be considered black.

That conversation by the way was here http://www.justplainpolitics.com/bbc-mlk-video-see-black-president-within-40-t16929.html which in turn led me to starte this thread.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I actually got that from a magazine article a long time ago where the author was trying to show both sides and trying to get a feeling for where Obama's support is coming from. He was also unabashedly pro-Obama but did make small effort to show some other points.
Let's face it, there are a lot of lefty whites who are jumping for joy over the election of the first black president. Yet it begs wondering about such strong support for someone who is black when they've had opportunities to vote for a black president in the past. One is left wondering, why this time with Obama?
And my answer is that yes he's a great speaker but more than that there are these lingering feelings and comments you get from whites who like him that they are making a statement and looking to expunge their collective guilt and Obama is the vehicle to make it happen.
I mean what stronger statement can a group make to try and pretend that there is a new America than to elect someone who is black to the highest office you can?

You are just doing damage control and strong intellectual though you are, you always immediately dismiss any firsthand comment from anyone that is not on the left as anecdotal without first even bothering to contrast it against your own personal gut and experience in gauging whether it has any larger relevance to how things are. Sometimes I wonder if you've really every gone out in life and had any experiences with people different than yourself.
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The "white guilt" nonsense is a load of horseshit arm-chair pop psychology. It was when Ralph Nader said it. It was when whomever you read wrote it. it was when Shelby Steele said it. It was when Tom Davis said it.

One thing you may note about most of the people that are claiming Obama rode into office on a wave of white guilt is that they all oppose Obama and dislike his policies and want to diminish and undermine the fact that people voted for Obama because they agree with him, not the Naders, Stelles, Davises and Danos of the world.
 
800px-The_million_march_man.jpg


Two million men who travelled from all across the country .. including me .. to listen to those who asserted we must take responsibilty for our lives.

It was a message I didn't need but wholeheartedly agreed with.
 
Dungheap said:
The "white guilt" nonsense is a load of horseshit arm-chair pop psychology. It was when Ralph Nader said it. It was when whomever you read wrote it. it was when Shelby Steele said it. It was when Tom Davis said it.

One thing you may note about most of the people that are claiming Obama rode into office on a wave of white guilt is that they all oppose Obama and dislike his policies and want to diminish and undermine the fact that people voted for Obama because they agree with him, not the Naders, Stelles, Davises and Danos of the world.
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LOL.
Again you are just showing your ability to argue from your office. This was a quote sought out specifically from a regular Joe or Jane type lady that was in the crowd supporting Obama.
The reporter saw it as one of those typical on the ground type responses that gives readers a feel for what was unique about supporting Obama.
I could give a crap what Nader or those others you mentioned think about it.
 
Dungheap said:
One thing you may note about most of the people that are claiming Obama rode into office on a wave of white guilt is that they all oppose Obama and dislike his policies and want to diminish and undermine the fact that people voted for Obama because they agree with him, not the Naders, Stelles, Davises and Danos of the world.
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I almost never agree with dung but here is a place where I do agree. Are there some people who voted for Obama simply because he is black? Yes, but I think these are few. Are there some people who voted against Obama because he is black? Yes, but I think they also are few.

From everything I have read and watched about the results of the election it boiled down to a large group of people who voted for the man because they agree with him, politically speaking. Why can't folks accept that?
 
Socrtease said:
I am not being paternalistic. I am just laffing at how ignorant you and whoa boy! thousands of other black people are being because he picked several jews to work for him (can't have them kikes working in the whitehouse huh?) and he is attempting to be the president of the United States of America. I was unaware that he was supposed to be the president of black america first. The fact that you say there are thousands of black voices that sound like yours when there are roughly 40 million black americas does not sway me in the least to your view that he is not black and it is not just about skin color. You are the one trying to reduce this to the lowest common denominator.
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Well, I don't think he should be President of black America first, exactly. But I do think that race plays a role in expectations. I calculated that Obama would be less likely to cavalierly kill dark-skinned people in these meaningless wars. Only because in my experience, many whites see "the other" rather than another human being, all too easily. So I think that is what bac means by black consciousness. That in other words, if Obama were to take the lives of say, Palestinians, or Iraqis as lightly as many of our white officials have, then we could maybe say he lacks this black consciousness. I think. I am no expert, that is for sure. I am just a long island white girl who likes Banana Republic and Ann Taylor, so, you know, I could be way off!
 
leaningright said:
I almost never agree with dung but here is a place where I do agree. Are there some people who voted for Obama simply because he is black? Yes, but I think these are few. Are there some people who voted against Obama because he is black? Yes, but I think they also are few.

From everything I have read and watched about the results of the election it boiled down to a large group of people who voted for the man because they agree with him, politically speaking. Why can't folks accept that?
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Who's disagreeing? I think Obama's support comes from 3 things:
1. Desire for change from Repubs
2. Great inspirational speaker
3. White guilt

And probably in that order. Most people certainly voted for him because of number 1 and 2, but most lefties and moderates could have voted for any Dem based on number 1.

Do most people agree with him politically? I don't think most people or at least most moderates/independents really understand where he is politically. He sold himself correctly as a Liberal in the primaries (going by his voting record) and then pulled off looking like a centrist once those were over.

Obama doesn't have to say too much, just talk about "change" nonstop and you'd be amazed at how many people, even normally objective people are willing to not ask for more than that.
 
Personally I think that Obama is going to be much less cavalier about using force in general. I might be wrong. But after watching Hillary get her welcome at state this morning I feel particularly hopeful that we are going to go back to using the long ignored art of diplomacy. But all things be equal I think that if he was Barry O'Connel rather than Barack Obama he would believe more in diplomacy than force. And now that he is actually president lets see what he does about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
 
Darla said:
Well, I don't think he should be President of black America first, exactly. But I do think that race plays a role in expectations. I calculated that Obama would be less likely to cavalierly kill dark-skinned people in these meaningless wars. Only because in my experience, many whites see "the other" rather than another human being, all too easily. So I think that is what bac means by black consciousness. That in other words, if Obama were to take the lives of say, Palestinians, or Iraqis as lightly as many of our white officials have, then we could maybe say he lacks this black consciousness. I think. I am no expert, that is for sure. I am just a long island white girl who likes Banana Republic and Ann Taylor, so, you know, I could be way off!
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NOBODY DOES.

That's the lie that keeps getting repeated for lack of a real point.

If gays expect Obama to address their issues, does that make Obama the Gay President?

And no, you're not way off.

I did not support Obama because he's "not black enough." I didn't support him because of the issues of war .. which I've stated many times.
 
Damocles said:
This.

I think two very intelligent people are sailing parallel courses.
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No true liberal believes that. It is like a white friend of mine says - his life has been shitty and 43 white presidents never changed that. Sorry but you have to be a real simplistic person to believe otherwise, and frankly between the two of you, you wouldn't know what an actual liberal thinks.
 
blackascoal said:
NOBODY DOES.

That's the lie that keeps getting repeated for lack of a real point.

If gays expect Obama to address their issues, does that make Obama the Gay President?

And no, you're not way off.

I did not support Obama because he's "not black enough." I didn't support him because of the issues of war .. which I've stated many times.
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See, I think I understand what you are saying, but where we disagree is, you are convinced that he is going to be a warmonger or something close, and I still think he might be forging another way. Now, if I end up to be wrong bac, I will say to you, I was wrong, you were right, and I think we'll both be sorry it turned out that way.
 
"Obama doesn't have to say too much, just talk about "change" nonstop and you'd be amazed at how many people, even normally objective people are willing to not ask for more than that. "

I know specifics that he has put out there on energy, education, Iraq/Afghanistan, foreign policy, immigration, healthcare, stem cells, the economy, terrorism and most other issues.

Not sure which campaign you were watching.
 
Darla said:
See, I think I understand what you are saying, but where we disagree is, you are convinced that he is going to be a warmonger or something close, and I still think he might be forging another way. Now, if I end up to be wrong bac, I will say to you, I was wrong, you were right, and I think we'll both be sorry it turned out that way.
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Now we're talking meat and potatoes.

I hope I'm the one who is wrong and I'd get down on my knees and apologize if I am.

However, it doesn't look good.

His plan to engage further into Afghanistan is scary as fuck .. particularly for military families .. like mine .. who has spent many a night waking up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my daughter. But, it isn't just my daughter, or the sons and daughters of other American military families I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and possibly Iran get shot, blown apart, and melted for our for-profit aggression.

His plan to increase the size of the military budget when the Pentagon suggests it should be slashed is troubling. His selection of Arne Duncan, who wants to privatize schools and turn inner-city schools into military acadamies is SERIOUSLY troubling and not at all consistent with the consciousness I spoke of.

I hope I'm wrong .. but I don't believe in assumption when it comes to the horrors of war.
 
blackascoal said:
Now we're talking meat and potatoes.

I hope I'm the one who is wrong and I'd get down on my knees and apologize if I am.

However, it doesn't look good.

His plan to engage further into Afghanistan is scary as fuck .. particularly for military families .. like mine .. who has spent many a night waking up in a cold sweat from nightmares about my daughter. But, it isn't just my daughter, or the sons and daughters of other American military families I'm concerned about. I'm concerned about innocent people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and possibly Iran get shot, blown apart, and melted for our for-profit aggression.

His plan to increase the size of the military budget when the Pentagon suggests it should be slashed is troubling. His selection of Arne Duncan, who wants to privatize schools and turn inner-city schools into military acadamies is SERIOUSLY troubling and not at all consistent with the consciousness I spoke of.

I hope I'm wrong .. but I don't believe in assumption when it comes to the horrors of war.
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Well, i also believe in activism, as I know you do, to help ensure that what's important to you is what is acted on.
 
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