Health Care Reform

Both ends of the spectrum have corporate puppets. Lieberman, Feinstein, et al were eager to sign this first step.

Watch the puppets and soon you see the strings!
 
blackascoal said:
Had democrats actually fought for single-payer, we wouldn't be doing this dance today.
Click to expand...
Well we have that asshole Joe Lieberman to thank for that. He threatened to single handedly to scuttle the entire Bill if it included a single payer system.

Again, the ACA isn't perfect but to kill it because it doesn't go far enough is plain madness. Let it take affect, prove what aspects it has are affective and work, give them time to become popular and then implement further needed reforms. What does it do to throw the baby out with the bath water?
 
tinfoil said:
Both ends of the spectrum have corporate puppets. Lieberman, Feinstein, et al were eager to sign this first step.

Watch the puppets and soon you see the strings!
Click to expand...
That's absolutely true.

Personally I think the most important aspect of the ACA is that it requires standardized reporting of health care outcomes. We currently have a system that does not analyze what medical modalities work and those that do not and we end up paying for a ton of crap that doesn't work.

I'll give you an example for that. When my brother was dying of cancer they sent a Psychiatrist to him to treat him for depression. HE FUCKING HAD TERMINAL CANCER! Of course he was depressed. He was dying! There wasn't a freaking thing a psychiatrist could do for him. Yet they wanted to bill him 7 figures for psychiatric treatment and were pissed when my brother and the family sent the shrink packing. Hell he got far more results in dealing with the anxiety of dying by smoking herb....and at a far lower cost I might add.

Anyways this is the sort of information that needs to be collected and analyzed so we can make rational decisions about what we pay for and how much we pay for it. Crap like treating a dying person for depression via psychiatry is a waste of money!!
 
tinfoil said:
How long before we get to single payer?

I'd love to hear what everyone thinks on that question
Click to expand...
Oh that's an excellent question and I honestly don't have an answer. I can only speculate. My guess...and this is purely a guess, is that as the health care exchanges become popular and my guess is that they will become wildely popular, that the nature of the exchanges will force the issue. My guess is that you'll see the pressure to adopt a single payer system from the States as this would make it substantially easier to manage these exchanges. As to when that will occur.....don't honestly know.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's not true. The ACA provides quite a few health care reforms. Particularly in standardizing the reporting of outcomes, which is critical in analyzing what works and therefor should be paid for and what doesn't work, and therefor should not be paid for as well as the universal mandate, permitting parents to carry adult children on their policies, ending exceptions for pre-existing conditions, creating insurance exchanges, etc. These are very real reforms. So to say that the ACA is not health care reform is grossly inaccurate. Does the ACA reform all that will required to be reformed? Of course it doesn't.

You have to be careful to not throw the baby out with the bathwater cause you didn't get all that you wanted in this legislation the first go around. The most important aspect of the ACA is that it creates a legal precedent from which other health care reforms will be legislated in the future.

Most Americans realize this and that is why most Americans oppose the repeal of the ACA.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, by no stretch of the imagination is the ACA health care reform.

The “reform” introduced by this bill largely promotes the status quo by pulling more people into an expensive health care system that is managed and funded by private insurers with no countervailing government option. Given that over half of all household bankruptcies are due to health care costs, creating mandates to force people to turn over an even larger portion of their income to insurance companies will further erode household finances and exacerbate the problem of declining incomes. It’s the Wall Street bailout principle extended to the health insurance industry.
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/new-r...alth-insurance-subsidy-not-health-care-reform

It's health care tweaking at best, but 'reform' it's decidedly not.

Americans demanded reform, not baby steps. Democrats never fought for reform or a good health care plan. They settled for Romneycare because Obama told them to.

Who are you going to blame for this?

Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey.

By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

And 30 percent of respondents think it will have a negative impact on their families. Just 12 percent think it will be positive and a majority -- 53 percent -- don't believe it will have an impact one way or another.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well we have that asshole Joe Lieberman to thank for that. He threatened to single handedly to scuttle the entire Bill if it included a single payer system.

Again, the ACA isn't perfect but to kill it because it doesn't go far enough is plain madness. Let it take affect, prove what aspects it has are affective and work, give them time to become popular and then implement further needed reforms. What does it do to throw the baby out with the bath water?
Click to expand...

No, you have that asshole Barack Obama to thank for that .. who by the way, was mentored by Joe Lieberman.

OBAMA never wanted single-payer.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well we have that asshole Joe Lieberman to thank for that. He threatened to single handedly to scuttle the entire Bill if it included a single payer system.

Again, the ACA isn't perfect but to kill it because it doesn't go far enough is plain madness. Let it take affect, prove what aspects it has are affective and work, give them time to become popular and then implement further needed reforms. What does it do to throw the baby out with the bath water?
Click to expand...

You're right, it doesn't go far enough. Next they need to make it so medical debt can't be erased through bankruptcy. Then they can raise rates even higher so that no matter what happens they'll get millions. Dont buy insurance? You get taxed. Cant afford that? Go to jail. Can't get education because student loans will cost millions? Well sucks to be you. Mott your generation should be hung in the streets for treason.
 
blackascoal said:
Respectfully, by no stretch of the imagination is the ACA health care reform.

The “reform” introduced by this bill largely promotes the status quo by pulling more people into an expensive health care system that is managed and funded by private insurers with no countervailing government option. Given that over half of all household bankruptcies are due to health care costs, creating mandates to force people to turn over an even larger portion of their income to insurance companies will further erode household finances and exacerbate the problem of declining incomes. It’s the Wall Street bailout principle extended to the health insurance industry.
http://rooseveltinstitute.org/new-r...alth-insurance-subsidy-not-health-care-reform

It's health care tweaking at best, but 'reform' it's decidedly not.

Americans demanded reform, not baby steps. Democrats never fought for reform or a good health care plan. They settled for Romneycare because Obama told them to.

Who are you going to blame for this?

Poll: Obamacare remains highly unpopular as implementation looms

A large number of Americans continue to adamantly oppose the nation’s new health-care law and believe it will produce damaging results, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

Forty-four percent of respondents call the health-care law a bad idea, while 31 percent believe it's a good idea -- virtually unchanged from July's NBC/WSJ survey.

By a 45 percent to 23 percent margin, Americans say it will have a negative impact on the country's health-care system rather than a positive one.

And 30 percent of respondents think it will have a negative impact on their families. Just 12 percent think it will be positive and a majority -- 53 percent -- don't believe it will have an impact one way or another.
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/...highly-unpopular-as-implementation-looms?lite
Click to expand...
That's an opinion piece and it's factually wrong. I have actually read a large part of the legislation. The reforms implemented by the ACA are obvious to anyone reading it objectively.

Does it reform all that needs to be reformed? Hell no! Is it perfect? Hell no! Has it been manipulated by monied interest? Hell yes. Does it contain important reforms. Hell yes it does. Respectfully, don't tell me it doesn't. I've read the damned thing. At least a large portion of it. I don't need a third parties opinion as to whether it is reform or not. I'm more than capable of making that observation myself.
 
I'm hoping I'm wrong and ACA isn't a nudge.


I have been a bit lazy about researching my options so I guess I should see what I'm in for in my state. I think I may qualify for help. We'll see. Not counting on it. As a white male in a blue state, I don't qualify for too many programs. But then again, I know half a dozen white trash families with Obamaphones, so there's hope for low grade resident like me after all.
I wish the republitards would quit the repeal attempts. It's so fucking stupid at this point.
 
Mega Milk said:
You're right, it doesn't go far enough. Next they need to make it so medical debt can't be erased through bankruptcy. Then they can raise rates even higher so that no matter what happens they'll get millions. Dont buy insurance? You get taxed. Cant afford that? Go to jail. Can't get education because student loans will cost millions? Well sucks to be you. Mott your generation should be hung in the streets for treason.
Click to expand...
Sure, so let's just do it your way and pay 20% of GDP for third world outcomes just to appease your libertarian sentiments. LOL
 
tinfoil said:
I'm hoping I'm wrong and ACA isn't a nudge.


I have been a bit lazy about researching my options so I guess I should see what I'm in for in my state. I think I may qualify for help. We'll see. Not counting on it. As a white male in a blue state, I don't qualify for too many programs. But then again, I know half a dozen white trash families with Obamaphones, so there's hope for low grade resident like me after all.
I wish the republitards would quit the repeal attempts. It's so fucking stupid at this point.
Click to expand...
I'm looking forward to what options are available too. My wife and I don't have children (not a choice, just bad luck) and we are both covered as individuals by our respective employers. I think my total cost for insurance including what I pay and what my employer pays is around $3500/year. For that I get a fairly crappy high deductible premium. I have like a $3,000 annual deductible before the 20/80 co-pay kicks in with a life time $1 million pay out (which will be eliminated soon thanks to another reform by the ACA). So it will be interesting to me if I can get a higher quality of coverage at a comparable out of pocket expense or if the exchanges will drive down pricing enough so that my employer can offer a higher quality of health care insurance. Things should get very interesting after Oct. 1.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's an opinion piece and it's factually wrong. I have actually read a large part of the legislation. The reforms implemented by the ACA are obvious to anyone reading it objectively.

Does it reform all that needs to be reformed? Hell no! Is it perfect? Hell no! Has it been manipulated by monied interest? Hell yes. Does it contain important reforms. Hell yes it does. Respectfully, don't tell me it doesn't. I've read the damned thing. At least a large portion of it. I don't need a third parties opinion as to whether it is reform or not. I'm more than capable of making that observation myself.
Click to expand...

It's an opinion piece by the Roosevelt Institute, perhaps the most progressive non-profit organization in America on issues of health and security .. and founded on the legacy of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. Doubtful that you would be more accurate or better read on this issue than this organzation, or organizations like PNHP.

I've read the damned thing as well or even better than you have. It's a corporatist bill that was written and designed by the health insurance industry and the Heritage Foundation .. or didn't you know that?

I repeat .. Obama never wanted single-payer.
 
We have to pass it to see what's in it!

LOL I think that phrase was the most blatant evidence that it was written by the insurance industry.
 
Its an impossible thing to do.


How do you dismantle an entire industry right in the middle of the great recession?


The public option will come in time.


when the industry fails to deliver the people will dismantle it.

that time has not come yet but it will.

You can always trust industry to fuck the people over for profit if they can.
 
this bill was indeed in part written by the industry.


Its how it got passed.


It is still far better than what we had before.


rome wasn't built in a day
 
evince said:
this bill was indeed in part written by the industry.


Its how it got passed.


It is still far better than what we had before.


rome wasn't built in a day
Click to expand...

Rome was already built. All they had to do was to open its gates for all Americans by simply removing two words .. 'over 65.'

Infrastructure and popularity already in place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top