Health Care Law Declared Void by Florida Judge

The health-care overhaul bill stipulates targets of 80% for small-business plans and 85% for large-company plans, so plug that into your calculations.

Why didn't you answer my question about the interview?


I read the Transcript of the interview, I did not physically watch the video.

Since Large group Admin Costs are only 12.5%. It would seem Obama just gave them an additional 2.5% profit, By law. And that was 12.5% including taxes paid to government.
 
You were reading the transcript of his testimony before Congress, not the interview. Where did you get the 12.5%?

I read both. The second qoute is from the interview.

I would love to post a link to the 12.5% number... Maybe in 3 more posts.
If you can't wait "Medicare versus Private Health Insurance:
The Cost of Administration" from the CAHI.org.
 
I read both. The second qoute is from the interview.

I would love to post a link to the 12.5% number... Maybe in 3 more posts.
If you can't wait "Medicare versus Private Health Insurance:
The Cost of Administration" from the CAHI.org.

I am more than willing to debate you on any topic, but one of the rules is you provide a link or some way to verify what you post. I have watched the interview a couple times and I have scanned the transcript, I don't recall or see any mention of the 12.5% in the interview.

CAHI is a front group.

The Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) is "a research and advocacy association of insurance carriers active in the individual, small group, MSA and senior markets. CAHI's membership includes insurance companies, small businesses, providers, nonprofit associations, actuaries, insurance brokers and individuals. Since 1992, CAHI has been an active advocate for market-oriented solutions to the problems in America's health care system ... CAHI is an association of small and mid-sized insurance companies, actuarial firms, legislative consultants, physicians and insurance agents," its website states.
 
The Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) is "a research and advocacy association of insurance carriers active in the individual, small group, MSA and senior markets. CAHI's membership includes insurance companies, small businesses, providers, nonprofit associations, actuaries, insurance brokers and individuals. Since 1992, CAHI has been an active advocate for market-oriented solutions to the problems in America's health care system ... CAHI is an association of small and mid-sized insurance companies, actuarial firms, legislative consultants, physicians and insurance agents," its website states.

I am well aware of who and what CAHI is nad appears yuo now are also, that however doesn't negate the information. If you wish to provide a counter number or conflicting source that claims the 12.5% number is false or misleading. I challenge you to do so now. As it stands now. the number for large group plans is 12.5% to which Obama will extend out to 15%.
 
I am well aware of who and what CAHI is nad appears yuo now are also, that however doesn't negate the information. If you wish to provide a counter number or conflicting source that claims the 12.5% number is false or misleading. I challenge you to do so now. As it stands now. the number for large group plans is 12.5% to which Obama will extend out to 15%.

Listen, you are the one that brought in the numbers without providing your source. Your source is dubious at best.

What I DO know is we face a health care crisis in our country, AND no nation has ever used 'market' based solutions to solve them. Anyone with a brain can see why; the incentives for the patient and the incentives for the insurance provider are in direct conflict. The only way the patient can use the leverage a market provides is if reincarnation exists.
 
Horseshit, phoney crisis trumped up by limosine liberals to get in office. It could only be sold to the public with the unconstitutional mandates.
Increase the supply of Doctors and nurses and you'll have a great first step at managing HC cost.
 
Horseshit, phoney crisis trumped up by limosine liberals to get in office. It could only be sold to the public with the unconstitutional mandates.
Increase the supply of Doctors and nurses and you'll have a great first step at managing HC cost.

Phony crisis?

The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform

Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

http://www.newamerica.net/publications/policy/cost_doing_nothing
 
Yes Obama trumped you economic illiterate libbies with the 40 million uninsured. He failed to tell you 35 MILLION DIDN'T WANT TO BUY IT. Thus slip in the mandate to make the socialism math work out.
 
Listen, you are the one that brought in the numbers without providing your source. Your source is dubious at best.

What I DO know is we face a health care crisis in our country, AND no nation has ever used 'market' based solutions to solve them. Anyone with a brain can see why; the incentives for the patient and the incentives for the insurance provider are in direct conflict. The only way the patient can use the leverage a market provides is if reincarnation exists.

I know it's probably been awhile for you. But your software does not allow me to post links till I reach 15 posts. My dubious Source as you so state also match's the PricewaterhouseCoopers reference I made using your link.

If you like search "PricewaterhouseCoopers Cost Study 2008" (since I can't post links yet)
PricewaterhouseCoopers latest cost study finds that 87 cents out of every premium dollar go directly towards paying for medical services.
Are they Dubious? if so, do you have a list of all dubious sources so I may avoid them in the future.


There hasn't been an attempted "market based" solution since the Feds passed "McCarran–Ferguson Act" in 1945. It was the Feds that have created this convoluted piece of shit system we currently enjoy.
 
Yes Obama trumped you economic illiterate libbies with the 40 million uninsured. He failed to tell you 35 MILLION DIDN'T WANT TO BUY IT. Thus slip in the mandate to make the socialism math work out.

Really? Did you talk to the 35 million? Or are you emoting?

What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?

Or the people who show up to the free health fairs where eighty-three percent of the patients they see are employed?

6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a53e2d6b970c-800wi
 
Really? Did you talk to the 35 million? Or are you emoting?

What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?

Or the people who show up to the free health fairs where eighty-three percent of the patients they see are employed?

6a00d8341c630a53ef0120a53e2d6b970c-800wi

Child please did Obama ask the 40m?
He's rightfully getting his ass handed to him on this one.
 
Really? Did you talk to the 35 million? Or are you emoting?



What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?

Uhhh, they don't buy insurance, but they can afford it. Seems to me they don't want it.

What part makes you think they want it? You fucking libtard

"What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?"

Citation needed! That's pure fantasy. How can you know that insurance would have made a difference ?

You logic is so convoluted
 
Really? Did you talk to the 35 million? Or are you emoting?

What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?

Or the people who show up to the free health fairs where eighty-three percent of the patients they see are employed?
ooooo, 45,000 people, sounds terrible. Even though it only reflects .0000009% of the 50 million. Which is almost the exact same percentage that die from Medical errors for having health insurance. .00000078% (195,000)

You excited, next post I get to post links.
 
Uhhh, they don't buy insurance, but they can afford it. Seems to me they don't want it.

What part makes you think they want it? You fucking libtard

"What about the 45,000 American citizens who die every year because they don't have access to affordable heath care?"

Citation needed! That's pure fantasy. How can you know that insurance would have made a difference ?

You logic is so convoluted

HarvardScience_logo.gif


New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts


By David Cecere

Cambridge Health Alliance

Thursday, September 17, 2009
HealthMed

Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a new study published online today by the American Journal of Public Health. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002.

The study, conducted at Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance, found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25 percent excess death rate found in 1993.

“The uninsured have a higher risk of death when compared to the privately insured, even after taking into account socioeconomics, health behaviors, and baseline health,” said lead author Andrew Wilper, M.D., who currently teaches at the University of Washington School of Medicine. “We doctors have many new ways to prevent deaths from hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease — but only if patients can get into our offices and afford their medications.”

The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking into account education, income, and many other factors, including smoking, drinking, and obesity. It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2009/09/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/
 
Phoney HC crisis needed to get Obama elected.

4 years before Barack Obama was inaugurated.

Sick and Broke

By Elizabeth Warren
Wednesday, February 9, 2005

Nobody's safe. That's the warning from the first large-scale study of medical bankruptcy.

Health insurance? That didn't protect 1 million Americans who were financially ruined by illness or medical bills last year.

A comfortable middle-class lifestyle? Good education? Decent job? No safeguards there. Most of the medically bankrupt were middle-class homeowners who had been to college and had responsible jobs -- until illness struck.

As part of a research study at Harvard University, our researchers interviewed 1,771 Americans in bankruptcy courts across the country. To our surprise, half said that illness or medical bills drove them to bankruptcy. So each year, 2 million Americans -- those who file and their dependents -- face the double disaster of illness and bankruptcy.

But the bigger surprise was that three-quarters of the medically bankrupt had health insurance.

How did illness bankrupt middle-class Americans with health insurance? For some, high co-payments, deductibles, exclusions from coverage and other loopholes left them holding the bag for thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket costs when serious illness struck. But even families with Cadillac coverage were often bankrupted by medical problems.

Too sick to work, they suddenly lost their jobs. With the jobs went most of their income and their health insurance -- a quarter of all employers cancel coverage the day you leave work because of a disabling illness; another quarter do so in less than a year. Many of the medically bankrupt qualified for some disability payments (eventually), and had the right under the COBRA law to continue their health coverage -- if they paid for it themselves. But how many families can afford a $1,000 monthly premium for coverage under COBRA, especially after the breadwinner has lost his or her job?

Often, the medical bills arrived just as the insurance and the paycheck disappeared.

Bankrupt families lost more than just assets. One out of five went without food. A third had their utilities shut off, and nearly two-thirds skipped needed doctor or dentist visits. These families struggled to stay out of bankruptcy. They arrived at the bankruptcy courthouse exhausted and emotionally spent, brought low by a health care system that could offer physical cures but that left them financially devastated.
Washington Post

median-family-spending.png
 
4 years before Barack Obama was inaugurated.

Sick and Broke

By Elizabeth Warren
Wednesday, February 9, 2005

The Medical Bankruptcy Myth

Dranove and Millenson critically analyzed the data from the 2005 edition of the medical bankruptcy study. They found that medical spending was a contributing factor in only 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies. They also reviewed other research, including studies by the Department of Justice, finding that medical debts accounted for only 12 percent to 13 percent of the total debts among American bankruptcy filers who cited medical debt as one of their reasons for bankruptcy.
 

You are quite the cynic. So we must throw out studies done by Harvard and major universities and replace them with studies by the American Enterprise Institute?

Please tell me why EVERY conservative 'debunking' is always funded by the same corporations and cartels? The same conservative 'debunking' funded by the same corporations and cartels that argued cigarette smoking was not linked to cancer?

The Medical Bankruptcy Myth according to the best deniers money can buy.

Foundation funding

* Carthage Foundation
* Castle Rock Foundation
* Earhart Foundation
* John M. Olin Foundation, Inc.
* Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation
* Philip M. McKenna Foundation, Inc.
* Scaife Foundations (Scaife Family, Sarah Mellon Scaife, Carthage)
* Smith Richardson Foundation

Amounts contributed by the Coors Foundation are not included.

Funding has come from many other sources, such as Amoco, the Kraft Foundation, and the Procter & Gamble Fund. AEI, unlike some think tanks, has no endowment - something which has led the organization into financial embarrassment in 1985 when its operating budget outstripped its donations by 25 percent (Newsweek, 1984).

A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
 
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