Health care backlash

apple0154 said:
Do tell. What, in your mind, is ironic and absurd?
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people are supposed to take care of themselves. this country was founded on the basis of freedom for ourselves to determine our own health, wealth, and prosperity instead of an oppressive government that takes our freedoms to provide that 'safety net', then renege on the deal and claim immunity. If people failed to save for themselves, then they should do the suffering for their bad choices. It was never the intention of the founders to have the government do anything more than protect the rights of the people.

so your ironic and absurd statement as follows:
Yours is just one more example of not thinking things through. It's the same crazy, irresponsible argument used for Social Security when people say if one invested they'd have more money at retirement. For the last time, people don't save.
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the bolded portions are important, for its everyone's individual responsibility to provide for themselves and their future.
 
NigelTufnel said:
Do you have any idea the skill involved in shooting up into the air such that the bullet comes on a downward trajectory to hit a target window such that it shatters the glass, lands one foot inside the window and does not penetrate the blinds?

The idea that this was an intentional act to threaten Cantor is laughable.
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The fact that you are so fucking knee-kerk stupid to not get that firing a gun in front of his office NO MATTER where the bullet was intended is inconsefuckingquential...
 
Cypress said:
Note to teabaggers who continue to defend Eric Cantor's lie.


Please, please excuse yourself from jury duty, or any venue where you are asked to make a reasoned decision on the basis of plausible evidence.

The fact that the cops said this bullet bounced against an office window on a downward trajectory is prima facie evidence that the bullet was not "shot at" cantor or his office. There's no other reasonable explanation. It's beyond any reasonable doubt that the bullet wasn't shot at cantor's office......unless you want to believe that the shooter flew by in a helicopter and shot down at cantor's office.
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You really are the shill everyone on here claims you are...please explain a random bullet making it into a "known" republican office?

2 hours ago from the Washington Post

"Richmond police are investigating a shot fired at U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's downtown office on Main Street early Tuesday when no one was in the building.

A police statement this afternoon said that a preliminary investigation shows that a bullet struck a window, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the window but did not penetrate the blinds.

Cantor's office is in a small building several blocks from the heart of downtown, near the historic Jefferson Hotel. It has several small offices in it, of which Cantor's is one.There are no Cantor signs on the doors or windows.

Various Republican candidates have occupied the offices in the historic Reagan Building through the years, including former governor Jim Gilmore."
 
Ice Dancer said:
The fact that you are so fucking knee-kerk stupid to not get that firing a gun in front of his office NO MATTER where the bullet was intended is inconsefuckingquential...
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Actually, the intent is kind of the important thing, isn't it. I mean, "random 1 a.m. gunshot in Richmond results in bullet breaking window of building that happens to house Cantor's campaign headquarters" is a whole different story from "Cantor's Office Shot Up," innit?
 
Ice Dancer said:
You really are the shill everyone on here claims you are...please explain a random bullet making it into a "known" republican office?

2 hours ago from the Washington Post

"Richmond police are investigating a shot fired at U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's downtown office on Main Street early Tuesday when no one was in the building.

A police statement this afternoon said that a preliminary investigation shows that a bullet struck a window, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the window but did not penetrate the blinds.

Cantor's office is in a small building several blocks from the heart of downtown, near the historic Jefferson Hotel. It has several small offices in it, of which Cantor's is one.There are no Cantor signs on the doors or windows.

Various Republican candidates have occupied the offices in the historic Reagan Building through the years, including former governor Jim Gilmore."
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The stuff you are quoting is from yesterday's reporting. The very piece you linked to was updated this morning:

The bullet that hit U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's campaign office in downtown Richmond early Tuesday was random, Richmond police spokesman Gene Lepley said this morning.

"It is a stray bullet as part of random gunfire,'' Lepley said. Police said they have no suspects.

Cantor's office declined comment.

Cantor announced Thursday at a news conference in Washington that his office had been fired at. Police confirmed that, saying that a bullet struck a window, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the window but did not penetrate the blinds. The bullet triggered an alarm and the police were notified immediatedly.

Cantor's office is in a small building several blocks from Capitol Square. It has several small offices in it. There are no Cantor signs on the doors or windows. Various Republican candidates have occupied the offices in the historic Reagan Building through the years, including former governor Jim Gilmore.

At the news conference Thursday, Cantor angrily lashed out at Democratic leaders for their handling of reported threats against members of Congress.

"I've received threats since I assumed elected office, not only because of my position but also because I'm Jewish,'' he said. "I've never blamed anyone in this body for that, period. Any suggestion that a leader in this body would incite threats or acts against other members is akin to saying that I would endanger myself, my wife or my children."
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Hilarious.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/police_say_gunfire_that_hit_ca.html
 
NigelTufnel said:
The stuff you are quoting is from yesterday's reporting. The very piece you linked to was updated this morning:




Hilarious.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/police_say_gunfire_that_hit_ca.html
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Somehow if it was a Democrat's office being shot at I don't think you would believe it to be hilarious. And maybe you've had your office shot at but if I knew people I worked with in Congress had been getting threats and I walk into my office and saw a bullet hole I'd probably think someone shot at my office too. Maybe that's just thinking crazy.

Edit: I'm not even trying to stand up for Cantor. He reacted the same way I would if I walked into my office and saw a bullet hole through a window.
 
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SmarterThanYou said:
people are supposed to take care of themselves. this country was founded on the basis of freedom for ourselves to determine our own health, wealth, and prosperity instead of an oppressive government that takes our freedoms to provide that 'safety net', then renege on the deal and claim immunity. If people failed to save for themselves, then they should do the suffering for their bad choices. It was never the intention of the founders to have the government do anything more than protect the rights of the people.

so your ironic and absurd statement as follows:


the bolded portions are important, for its everyone's individual responsibility to provide for themselves and their future.
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"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

How is something promoted? By doing nothing?

Promote: to help or encourage to exist or flourish; (Dictionary.com)

Then we have "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves ."

Let's put them together. The purpose of the government is to help us regarding our welfare and our ability to secure the blessings of liberty.

If the government was strictly for defense and order in society why even write "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty"? If the government's roll was to be minimal why write it in such a general way? If we were to determine our own health, wealth, and prosperity what is the government supposed to help us with in regards to securing the blessings of liberty?

They mention justice, domestic tranquility, and the common defence. Why not just leave it there? After that, you're on your own. But they didn't leave it there. They left it open. They stated it in general terms so that as the world changed should the government be able to help/promote other things that would benefit ones welfare, that would help/promote people to secure the blessings of liberty, it was the government's obligation to do so just as it is the government's obligation to insure justice, domestic tranquility, and the common defence.
 
cawacko said:
Somehow if it was a Democrat's office being shot at I don't think you would believe it to be hilarious. And maybe you've had your office shot at but if I knew people I worked with in Congress had been getting threats and I walk into my office and saw a bullet hole I'd probably think someone shot at my office too. Maybe that's just thinking crazy.
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First of all, it wasn't Cantor's actual office where he goes to work everyday. If it were, maybe you'd have a point. It was a campaign office.

Second, yes, I would probably think my office was shot at, too. But, given that the bullet landed one foot from the broken window and didn't penetrate the blinds, I would try to find out from the police what exactly was going on.

Since the window smashed on Tuesday at 1 a.m. and Cantor's ridiculous press conference was yesterday, by the time he delivered the press conference he had to know that his campaign office was not intentionally shot up. It's fine to initially think it was a intentional act of violence, and if Cantor's press conference was in the immediate aftermath, he would be excused from know all the facts.

As it stands, Cantor had to know full well what the situation was and, notwithstanding that, tired to use the incident for political advantage. That is hilarious. As are the idiots that were bamboozled by Cantor's shameful display.
 
NigelTufnel said:
First of all, it wasn't Cantor's actual office where he goes to work everyday. If it were, maybe you'd have a point. It was a campaign office.

Second, yes, I would probably think my office was shot at, too. But, given that the bullet landed one foot from the broken window and didn't penetrate the blinds, I would try to find out from the police what exactly was going on.

Since the window smashed on Tuesday at 1 a.m. and Cantor's ridiculous press conference was yesterday, by the time he delivered the press conference he had to know that his campaign office was not intentionally shot up. It's fine to initially think it was a intentional act of violence, and if Cantor's press conference was in the immediate aftermath, he would be excused from know all the facts.

As it stands, Cantor had to know full well what the situation was and, notwithstanding that, tired to use the incident for political advantage. That is hilarious. As are the idiots that were bamboozled by Cantor's shameful display.
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Well I'm not aware of the timeline my response was simply as I said in my edit if I found my office or campaign office shot at after hearing about threats to collegues (sp) my initial reaction would be one of concern as well.
 
apple0154 said:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

How is something promoted? By doing nothing?

Promote: to help or encourage to exist or flourish; (Dictionary.com)

Then we have "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves ."

Let's put them together. The purpose of the government is to help us regarding our welfare and our ability to secure the blessings of liberty.

If the government was strictly for defense and order in society why even write "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty"? If the government's roll was to be minimal why write it in such a general way? If we were to determine our own health, wealth, and prosperity what is the government supposed to help us with in regards to securing the blessings of liberty?

They mention justice, domestic tranquility, and the common defence. Why not just leave it there? After that, you're on your own. But they didn't leave it there. They left it open. They stated it in general terms so that as the world changed should the government be able to help/promote other things that would benefit ones welfare, that would help/promote people to secure the blessings of liberty, it was the government's obligation to do so just as it is the government's obligation to insure justice, domestic tranquility, and the common defence.
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you're espousing 'living constitution' crap. useless and meaningless.

"On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you're espousing 'living constitution' crap. useless and meaningless.

"On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson
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Then what was the purpose of writing it? What is the government supposed to promote? It already covers defence and justice and domestic tranquility.

To promote the "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" . That means doing something.
 
christiefan915 said:
One of Obama's campaign promises was to reform health care. Starting in 2007 Obama made reform a centerpiece of his campaign. Americans knew that Obama was determined to reform health care, it wasn't a secret. And being fully aware that this was one of the major features of his agenda, Americans elected him president, 52.9% to McCain's 45.7%.

Conservatives like to point to polls showing that "most" Americans are against health care but the only poll that counts shows that the majority supported Obama's agenda, including health care. Nothing was sneaked by the population, and that's what's killing you guys.
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Makes you wonder why they continually spout the lie that no Americans want HCR...because that's one of the reasons we voted for Obama!!
 
Ice Dancer said:
You really are the shill everyone on here claims you are...please explain a random bullet making it into a "known" republican office?

2 hours ago from the Washington Post

"Richmond police are investigating a shot fired at U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor's downtown office on Main Street early Tuesday when no one was in the building.

A police statement this afternoon said that a preliminary investigation shows that a bullet struck a window, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the window but did not penetrate the blinds.

Cantor's office is in a small building several blocks from the heart of downtown, near the historic Jefferson Hotel. It has several small offices in it, of which Cantor's is one.There are no Cantor signs on the doors or windows.

Various Republican candidates have occupied the offices in the historic Reagan Building through the years, including former governor Jim Gilmore."
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Cypress is a disgusting pig.
 
apple0154 said:
Then what was the purpose of writing it? What is the government supposed to promote? It already covers defence and justice and domestic tranquility.

To promote the "general welfare" and "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves" . That means doing something.
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doing something like maintaining fairness and equality from state to state, ensuring that opportunities for prosperity are not restricted among certain peoples. Not mandating that everyone have a health insurance policy to enrich health insurance companies.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
doing something like maintaining fairness and equality from state to state, ensuring that opportunities for prosperity are not restricted among certain peoples. Not mandating that everyone have a health insurance policy to enrich health insurance companies.
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Sounds like a universal medical plan would address all those concerns. Fairness and equality from state to state by having one plan for all, ensuring the ill are treated so as to be able to pursue opportunities and the health insurance companies would be a thing of the past.
 
apple0154 said:
Sounds like a universal medical plan would address all those concerns. Fairness and equality from state to state by having one plan for all, ensuring the ill are treated so as to be able to pursue opportunities and the health insurance companies would be a thing of the past.
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congress was never meant to have that kind of power. limited government and all. all they had the authority to do was make the states provide fairness between them.
 
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