Happy Trayvon Martin Day

[Timshel]

But you have successfully shown that there was plenty of time for Martin to return home; so I wonder why he didn't, instead of stalking and then assaulting Zimmerman.

Those are just your crackpot assumptions and attempt to put the victim on trial.

Zimmerman's claims don't add up. He had enough time to travel the distance he claimed to be travelling while on the call. It seems he may be lying about where he walked and was continuing to pursue Martin. His self defense defense is going to rely on his credibility and the credibility of his story.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Those are just your crackpot assumptions and attempt to put the victim on trial.

Zimmerman's claims don't add up. He had enough time to travel the distance he claimed to be travelling while on the call. It seems he may be lying about where he walked and was continuing to pursue Martin. His self defense defense is going to rely on his credibility and the credibility of his story.

Now you appear to be concerned that what you've presented also shows that Martin had more then enough time to return home and yet he didn't.
Instead he stalked Zimmerman, attacked him, and got shot in the process.

I wonder why Martin would confront someone that he knew had a gun.

 

[Phantasmal]

Those are just your crackpot assumptions and attempt to put the victim on trial.

Zimmerman's claims don't add up. He had enough time to travel the distance he claimed to be travelling while on the call. It seems he may be lying about where he walked and was continuing to pursue Martin. His self defense defense is going to rely on his credibility and the credibility of his story.

They are also now trying to destroy the credibility of Martin's girlfriend because her testimony is damaging to Zimmerman.

 

[Timshel]

Now you appear to be concerned that what you've presented also shows that Martin had more then enough time to return home and yet he didn't.
Instead he stalked Zimmerman, attacked him, and got shot in the process.

I wonder why Martin would confront someone that he knew had a gun.

No, I am not concerned at all. Superfreak provided a source speculating on it several pages ago. It is not relevant and there is no proof of your claims that he stalked or attacked Zimmerman.

He knew had a gun? Wtf?

The trial is not going to go over Trayvon's story but George's.

 

[DamnYankee]

They are also now trying to destroy the credibility of Martin's girlfriend because her testimony is damaging to Zimmerman.

Which is exactly what defense attorneys are supposed to do.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

No, I am not concerned at all. Superfreak provided a source speculating on it several pages ago. It is not relevant and there is no proof of your claims that he stalked or attacked Zimmerman.

He knew had a gun? Wtf?

The trial is not going to go over Trayvon's story but George's.

I was just addressing the asinine assertion that this was an armed pursuit, so Martin must have known.

Oh, they'll be going over Martin's "story" and it will be presented that instead of him going home; he decided to stalk and then attack Zimmerman.

 

[Timshel]

TheCu

I was just addressing the asinine assertion that this was an armed pursuit, so Martin must have known.

Oh, they'll be going over Martin's "story" and it will be presented that instead of him going home; he decided to stalk and then attack Zimmerman.

It does not follow that because Zimmerman was armed and following Trayvon that Trayvon knew he was armed. What are you even talking about? It's an unchallenged fact that Zimmerman was armed.

They can't simply engage in the sort of wild speculation you have, Martin will not be testifying and there are no witnesses that know his route for certain. They could introduce facts about the time that was available, rates of travel and how far he was from the house. Zimmerman on the other hand has given evidence that can be questioned and if he hopes to win is probably going to have to testify. He is going to need some sort of satisfactory answer and won't be able to do as you have and ignore the questions.

http://trial.laws.com/objection/speculation

 

[USFREEDOM911]

TheCu

It does not follow that because Zimmerman was armed and following Trayvon that Trayvon knew he was armed. What are you even talking about? It's an unchallenged fact that Zimmerman was armed.

They can't simply engage in the sort of wild speculation you have, Martin will not be testifying and there are no witnesses that know his route for certain. They could introduce facts about the time that was available, rates of travel and how far he was from the house. Zimmerman on the other hand has given evidence that can be questioned and if he hopes to win is probably going to have to testify. He is going to need some sort of satisfactory answer and won't be able to do as you have and ignore the questions.

http://trial.laws.com/objection/speculation

Like I said; that comment was regarding all those that wanted to continue to call this an armed pursuit.

You're correct; they will introduce evidence that will show that Martin had ample time to return home, after fleeing from Zimmerman, but instead he choose to stalk and then assault Zimmerman.

The only thing I've ignored, are your wild assertions and assumptions.

 

[Timshel]

Like I said; that comment was regarding all those that wanted to continue to call this an armed pursuit.

You're correct; they will introduce evidence that will show that Martin had ample time to return home, after fleeing from Zimmerman, but instead he choose to stalk and then assault Zimmerman.

The only thing I've ignored, are your wild assertions and assumptions.

Another redundant and non responsive post. You are boring me. If you are just instistent on having the last word I will give it to you but I continue hoping you are actually going to put up a real fight.

And like I said, your response does not follow. He was certainly pursuing Trayvon and was armed. You don't like the connotations of those words, but both statements are unchallenged facts. From that it does not follow that Trayvon knew he was armed. Again, your assertion does not make any sense.

They won't be allowed to engage in the wild speculation, about Trayvon stalking Zimmerman, that you do.

I bet the issue of why it took him so long to travel 200 feet comes up at trial. I have not asserted or assumed anything. I am simply pointing out that his explanation does not account for the time and distance well and it is likely to be used to challenge his credibility. I have not made assertions or assumptions about what he did in that time. As I indicated, there is other physical evidence that challenges the credibility of Zimmerman's account. Zimmerman's defense is going to depend on his credibility alone, there is plenty to challenge it and so I would say he should be very worried.

 

[zappasguitar]

TheCu

It does not follow that because Zimmerman was armed and following Trayvon that Trayvon knew he was armed. What are you even talking about? It's an unchallenged fact that Zimmerman was armed.

They can't simply engage in the sort of wild speculation you have, Martin will not be testifying and there are no witnesses that know his route for certain. They could introduce facts about the time that was available, rates of travel and how far he was from the house. Zimmerman on the other hand has given evidence that can be questioned and if he hopes to win is probably going to have to testify. He is going to need some sort of satisfactory answer and won't be able to do as you have and ignore the questions.

http://trial.laws.com/objection/speculation

These are just a few of the tactics USF uses to avoid answering other people's questions and for diverting the discussion.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Another redundant and non responsive post. You are boring me. If you are just instistent on having the last word I will give it to you but I continue hoping you are actually going to put up a real fight.

And like I said, your response does not follow. He was certainly pursuing Trayvon and was armed. You don't like the connotations of those words, but both statements are unchallenged facts. From that it does not follow that Trayvon knew he was armed. Again, your assertion does not make any sense.

They won't be allowed to engage in the wild speculation, about Trayvon stalking Zimmerman, that you do.

I bet the issue of why it took him so long to travel 200 feet comes up at trial. I have not asserted or assumed anything. I am simply pointing out that his explanation does not account for the time and distance well and it is likely to be used to challenge his credibility. I have not made assertions or assumptions about what he did in that time. As I indicated, there is other physical evidence that challenges the credibility of Zimmerman's account. Zimmerman's defense is going to depend on his credibility alone, there is plenty to challenge it and so I would say he should be very worried.

The FACT that Martin had plenty of time to return home, but instead choose to stalk and then assault Zimmerman, is definetly going to come up.
Martin rolled the dice, tried to live the thug life, and came up snake eyes.

 

[Timshel]

The FACT that Martin had plenty of time to return home, but instead choose to stalk and then assault Zimmerman, is definetly going to come up.
Martin rolled the dice, tried to live the thug life, and came up snake eyes.

You really suck at this.

Yeah, again, they won't be able to engage in that sort of speculation. They can introduce the facts and hope the jury will speculate as you have. The thing is there is no telling what Trayvon was doing and one could speculate about numerous possibilities. As I mentioned earlier, maybe he decided it was best to hide but seeing Zimmerman persist he came out. Maybe he ran to the house could not get in and kept going. Maybe he decided to stand his ground and find out why he was being pursued. There is no telling and very little reason to assume he "stalked" the person he had ran away from. It seems most likely that he either felt he could not get away or decided he was no longer going to run. Unless, he was giving the gf a play by play and more details than has been previously reported, there does not appear to be much evidence to support a conclusion. The defense is going to have to rely on the credibility of Zimmerman's account.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

You really suck at this.

Yeah, again, they won't be able to engage in that sort of speculation. They can introduce the facts and hope the jury will speculate as you have. The thing is there is no telling what Trayvon was doing and one could speculate about numerous possibilities. As I mentioned earlier, maybe he decided it was best to hide but seeing Zimmerman persist he came out. Maybe he ran to the house could not get in and kept going. Maybe he decided to stand his ground and find out why he was being pursued. There is no telling and very little reason to assume he "stalked" the person he had ran away from. It seems most likely that he either felt he could not get away or decided he was no longer going to run. Unless, he was giving the gf a play by play and more details than has been previously reported, there does not appear to be much evidence to support a conclusion. The defense is going to have to rely on the credibility of Zimmerman's account.

I see that the idea of Martin's own behavior is disturbing to you and that you're worried that is behavior might be seen as being thugish. Just think; if he had gone home, instead of stalking and then attacking Zimmerman, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If someone looks like a thug.
Walks like a thug.
Acts like a thug.
Probably a thug.

 

[Timshel]

I see that the idea of Martin's own behavior is disturbing to you and that you're worried that is behavior might be seen as being thugish. Just think; if he had gone home, instead of stalking and then attacking Zimmerman, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

If someone looks like a thug.
Walks like a thug.
Acts like a thug.
Probably a thug.

It's not disturbing to me. Courts have rules and lawyers/witnesses are not allowed to just engage in wild speculation. There is no proof to any stalking by Trayvon and no witness that can introduce such a claim.

As far as thuggish behavior I am not sure if they will or should be able to introduce evidence concerning Zimmerman's record of battery on a LEO or his bragging on MySpace about his domestic abuse case.

You act and argue like a race-baiting douchebag. It's not just Trayvon whom I mourn. I feel somewhat sorry for Zimmerman as he may have had good intentions but has thrown his life away on a stupid hero complex. To you neither party is real and you, apparently, have less empathy for them than an average human would have for fictional characters. But, your repeated baiting is not going to work. Trayvon is dead and there is nothing I can do about it.

 

[Phantasmal]

It's not disturbing to me. Courts have rules and lawyers/witnesses are not allowed to just engage in wild speculation. There is no proof to any stalking by Trayvon and no witness that can introduce such a claim.

As far as thuggish behavior I am not sure if they will or should be able to introduce evidence concerning Zimmerman's record of battery on a LEO or his bragging on MySpace about his domestic abuse case.

You act and argue like a race-baiting douchebag. It's not just Trayvon whom I mourn. I feel somewhat sorry for Zimmerman as he may have had good intentions but has thrown his life away on a stupid hero complex. To you neither party is real and you, apparently, have less empathy for them than an average human would have for fictional characters. But, your repeated baiting is not going to work. Trayvon is dead and there is nothing I can do about it.

I feel the same way, his, I am a neighborhood cop syndrome, has ruined his life. If he had a do over, I bet he would stay in hs truck.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

It's not disturbing to me. Courts have rules and lawyers/witnesses are not allowed to just engage in wild speculation. There is no proof to any stalking by Trayvon and no witness that can introduce such a claim.

As far as thuggish behavior I am not sure if they will or should be able to introduce evidence concerning Zimmerman's record of battery on a LEO or his bragging on MySpace about his domestic abuse case.

You act and argue like a race-baiting douchebag. It's not just Trayvon whom I mourn. I feel somewhat sorry for Zimmerman as he may have had good intentions but has thrown his life away on a stupid hero complex. To you neither party is real and you, apparently, have less empathy for them than an average human would have for fictional characters. But, your repeated baiting is not going to work. Trayvon is dead and there is nothing I can do about it.

It's obviously disturbing to you, or you wouldn't have tried so hard to exclude it.

This isn't wild speculation, it's reasonable doubt; seeing as how so many of you appear to have forgotten the "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN QUILTY" part of the Courts.

You would probably feel better, if Zimmerman had just allowed Martin to beat him senseless, steal his gun, and have shot him.

Martin is the one who threw his life away and lost.

How does this make me racist?

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I feel the same way, his, I am a neighborhood cop syndrome, has ruined his life. If he had a do over, I bet he would stay in hs truck.

I bet if there was a do over, Martin wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman and had gone home instead.

 

[Timshel]

It's obviously disturbing to you, or you wouldn't have tried so hard to exclude it.

I am not excluding anything. I have no idea what he did as I mentioned previosuly and repeatedly. There is no evidence about what he did, just speculation. The court is not likely to allow it.

This isn't wild speculation, it's reasonable doubt; seeing as how so many of you appear to have forgotten the "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN QUILTY" part of the Courts.

You would probably feel better, if Zimmerman had just allowed Martin to beat him senseless, steal his gun, and have shot him.

Martin is the one who threw his life away and lost.

How does this make me racist?

Maybe you are not, but you act and argue like one.

To establish reasonable doubt you need evidence or an ability to challenge the evidence of the prosecution. I have seen very little evidence about what Trayvon was doing between the time he ranand the time of the confrontation. The girlfriend's testimony and maybe something useful from neighbors will shed more light on it but there is nothing to indicate he was stalking Zimmerman. That is just a weird claim by you apparently meant to elicit some sort of emotional response. Not even Zimmerman mentions anything that would lead a reasonable person to believe it. I seriously doubt the defense will make such a claim as it seems rather fantastic, as if you are imagining that it was all a plot to lure Zimmerman in. I don't think they are going to want to strain their credibility with such wild tales.

The fact that there was time for him to run home is not evidence that he "stalked" or attacked Zimmerman. It does not even take away the possibility that Trayvon felt threatened which is clearly implied by the fact that he ran away and there is the girlfriend's testimony.

Zimmerman's testimony is the only evidence he has and the credibility of his account will be challenged. Why he was only able to travel 300 feet in 3:20-3:45 I would expect to be questioned. The other problems with the location of Trayvon's phone and body in conjunction with Zimmerman's account of the struggle and where it began may come up too.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I am not excluding anything. I have no idea what he did as I mentioned previosuly and repeatedly. There is no evidence about what he did, just speculation. The court is not likely to allow it.

Maybe you are not, but you act and argue like one.

To establish reasonable doubt you need evidence or an ability to challenge the evidence of the prosecution. I have seen very little evidence about what Trayvon was doing between the time he ranand the time of the confrontation. The girlfriend's testimony and maybe something useful from neighbors will shed more light on it but there is nothing to indicate he was stalking Zimmerman. That is just a weird claim by you apparently meant to elicit some sort of emotional response. Not even Zimmerman mentions anything that would lead a reasonable person to believe it. I seriously doubt the defense will make such a claim as it seems rather fantastic, as if you are imagining that it was all a plot to lure Zimmerman in. I don't think they are going to want to strain their credibility with such wild tales.

The fact that there was time for him to run home is not evidence that he "stalked" or attacked Zimmerman. It does not even take away the possibility that Trayvon felt threatened which is clearly implied by the fact that he ran away and there is the girlfriend's testimony.

Zimmerman's testimony is the only evidence he has and the credibility of his account will be challenged. Why he was only able to travel 300 feet in 3:20-3:45 I would expect to be questioned. The other problems with the location of Trayvon's phone and body in conjunction with Zimmerman's account of the struggle and where it began may come up too.

If what I'm offering is "speculation" then what in the hell do you call what you've presented?
You're comments have been nothing but speculation also; but since it fits your desire for a conviction, that makes it OK.

Since you're so convinced that I'm a racist, why don't you present your "proof"; instead of just stating your conjecture?

The transcript from the dispatcher shows that Zimmerman no longer knew where Martin was and was returning to his vehicle; so where was Martin during this time and why wasn't he returning to his home, if he was so frightened?
I'ld like to know what was the girlfriends phone also; because they won't turn the phone records over to the defense, nor will they allow the defense access to his mom's phone records.
Sounds to me like they've got something to hide.
Once again; Innocent until proven quilty and reasonable doubt.

Martin had no defensive wounds on his body, while Zimmerman shows numerous wounds.
To all appearances, Martin ambushed Zimmerman and lost.

"...Why he was only able to travel 300 feet in 3:20-3:45 I would expect to be questioned..."
Now who's the one "speculating"; especially since you can't even get the time long right?
At 3:21 the dispatcher asks Zimmerman: "Alright, what address are you parked in front of?"
And after an exchange that took a whole 46 SECONDS , the call ends at 4:07.
Maybe he was just standing there, or walking really slow.

Are you getting that 300 feet, from some Zimmerman hate sight?

 

[Timshel]

If what I'm offering is "speculation" then what in the hell do you call what you've presented?
You're comments have been nothing but speculation also; but since it fits your desire for a conviction, that makes it OK.

I am about done with your redundant nonsense. If you want to have an actual discussion try to be specific. On what am I speculating? The timeframe? Nope. The distance that Zimmerman claimed to be travelling? Nope. Where he claimed to encounter Martin and where the body, cellphone? Nope, nope, nope. I have not speculated at all except to suggest some of the numerous alternatives to your speculation.

Since you're so convinced that I'm a racist, why don't you present your "proof"; instead of just stating your conjecture?

The transcript from the dispatcher shows that Zimmerman no longer knew where Martin was and was returning to his vehicle; so where was Martin during this time and why wasn't he returning to his home, if he was so frightened?

The transcript from the dispatcher does not show that he was returning to his vehicle. I am not sure what in it you think does or how you expect it could offer any conclusive proof. At no point during the conversation did Zimmerman say he was returning to his vehicle or would be, but even if he had it would just be his word.

I'ld like to know what was the girlfriends phone also; because they won't turn the phone records over to the defense, nor will they allow the defense access to his mom's phone records.
Sounds to me like they've got something to hide.

The phone records used in the prosecutions case have been released. I don't know to what you are referring.

Once again; Innocent until proven quilty and reasonable doubt.

Martin had no defensive wounds on his body, while Zimmerman shows numerous wounds.
To all appearances, Martin ambushed Zimmerman and lost.

"...Why he was only able to travel 300 feet in 3:20-3:45 I would expect to be questioned..."
Now who's the one "speculating"; especially since you can't even get the time long right?
At 3:21 the dispatcher asks Zimmerman: "Alright, what address are you parked in front of?"

You are not paying attention. 3:20 in 3:20-3:45 is not a reference to a point in the call. It is the amount of total time, as in three minutes and twenty seconds, between the point when Zimmerman acknowledges that he need not follow Martin and the time he encountered Martin. He was was on the phone for 1:40 after acknowledging that he need not follow Martin. That is enough time to walk the 200 feet across the top of the tee and back.

And after an exchange that took a whole 46 SECONDS , the call ends at 4:07.
Maybe he was just standing there, or walking really slow.

Again you are not paying attention. Zimmerman's claims in the reenactment dispel this. He claimed he left his vehicle and walked along the "cut through" in his odd quest to find the street sign on the other side. He says he paused but he does not mention just standing around or that he was walking very slowly. Why would he?

Are you getting that 300 feet, from some Zimmerman hate sight?

It's 200 feet.

http://www.constitutionaldaily.com/...ayvon-martin-shooting&catid=42:news&Itemid=71

Hardly a Zimmerman hate sight, but the scale is useful.