Gun-toting soccer mom, husband shot

Topspin said:
God your a dubmass, I'm making the claim that 80% of murders are with guns as someone posted earlier.
Dropping out or skipping college is not good.
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staying in didn't do you a hell of alot of good either. tightening gun laws will not affect the crime rates. It will only change the tool of choice.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you think that will simply lower crime? or just homicides by firearm? I know alot of anti gun people could care less, right now, how many people die by stabbings or beatings, just so long as it's not by a firearm.
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Your fellow wingnuts held out Switzerland as the ideal paradise of gun ownership, not me.

They do have more restrictive gun control than us, so I have no choice but to assume wingnuts would like to see the swiss gun restrictions adopted here.
 
No one is disputing the France and England's 3x less per capita murder rate.
The main difference is the amount of guns per capita.
 
Topspin said:
God your a dubmass, I'm making the claim that 80% of murders are with guns as someone posted earlier.
Dropping out or skipping college is not good.
Click to expand...

Oh, OK...I see what you are saying now. It really does make a difference in how you spell certain words you know.

So 80% of murders are by guns. I'd like to look at that research as well.
 
Cypress said:
Your fellow wingnuts held out Switzerland as the ideal paradise of gun ownership, not me.

They do have more restrictive gun control than us, so I have no choice but to assume wingnuts would like to see the swiss gun restrictions adopted here.
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you lost me on wingnut. are you talking to yourself?
 
Topspin said:
Ok list your reasons,
I know we have way more guns, but wait guns don't kill people. People who have guns and buy bullets kill people.
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A good article......when you get time I urge you to read it.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2206

"The U.S. has a high gun murder rate, whereas a country like England with strict gun controls has almost no gun murders and a very low murder rate. Doesn't this show that gun control is effective in reducing murder rates? Not exactly. Prior to having any gun controls, England already had a homicide rate much lower than the United States

Gun control opponents can play similar games. The Swiss with 7 million people have hundreds of thousands of fully-automatic rifles in their homes and the Israelis, until recently, have had easy access to guns. Both countries have low homicide rates. Likewise this doesn't mean more guns less crime.

The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates. On the other hand, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Mexico have non-gun murder rates in excess of our total murder rate."

Basically I contend it is culture, not guns that make the big difference.

Time to go to lunch.
 
tool were not discussing the increase in rates that's an NRA talking point.
They had way less guns before the restrictions didn't they???
 
Topspin said:
thanks freak that's what I was referring to.
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Wait, that's exactly where I got the 2.5 x and 3 x number for France and the UK, respectively. I was going to thank him because I couldn't go back to that site for some reason to cut and paste the link. ???
 
Topspin said:
tool were not discussing the increase in rates that's an NRA talking point.
They had way less guns before the restrictions didn't they???
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Read the last sentence before I said it is time for me to go to lunch. That is my conclusion, based on the research. You take away all the guns in the UK and all of the guns in the US and our murder rate would still be near 3 x theirs, IMO........because of the difference in culture. Like it or not, we are a violent people and it has nothing to do with guns. Most gun owners are the most docile people you'll ever meet.

Now I'm really going to lunch. Practice spelling and doing a little math while I'm gone, will you?

Oh, and if I have to be a "tool" I want to be a monkey wrench, OK.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
you're making the claim that the 80% that buy guns are criminals, but if that were the case, our crime rate would look like a judge dredd movie. who's doing the faulty math now, idiot?
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No, the idiot can't spell and thus his post was confusing....

He meant 80% of murders are BY guns.
 
Topspin said:
tool were not discussing the increase in rates that's an NRA talking point.
They had way less guns before the restrictions didn't they???
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Actually, if your theory of 'its da guns' was true, then their murder rates should be diminishing.... NOT increasing.
 
Cypress said:
Here's the problem with repeating something you heard on rightwing talk radio, without checking the facts yourself.

Switzerland has far more restrictive gun control laws than the United States, especially since the 1990s when they had some horrific cases of mass murder and domestic violence by handguns.

Switzerland does historically have a higher rate of homicide and domestic violence by fire arm than most of its western european neighbors.

The death rate by firearm in switzerland has gone down since the introduction of more restrictive gun control laws in the 1990s.



So, is your contention, that you'd like to tighten up our amazingly lax gun control laws, at least up to the level of Switerland? Fine by me, when do we start?
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Switzerland's guns laws are not really all that restrictive. And ours, though lax by the rest of the worlds standards, are in direct opposition to our constitution.
 
Cypress said:
Here's the problem with repeating something you heard on rightwing talk radio, without checking the facts yourself.

Switzerland has far more restrictive gun control laws than the United States, especially since the 1990s when they had some horrific cases of mass murder and domestic violence by handguns.

Switzerland does historically have a higher rate of homicide and domestic violence by fire arm than most of its western european neighbors.

The death rate by firearm in switzerland has gone down since the introduction of more restrictive gun control laws in the 1990s.



So, is your contention, that you'd like to tighten up our amazingly lax gun control laws, at least up to the level of Switerland? Fine by me, when do we start?
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Why do your moronic posts always begin with some ignorant attempt to link the opponent with a 'right wing talking point'? It simply makes you look even more weak and pathetic than you already are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Is a link to the gun laws in Switzerland. Up until December of 2008, they did not have stricter gun control laws than the US.

They required permits (starting in 1999) which an individual could get if they passed the background check. While many states may not have permits... they do require the same type of background check. The difference between the two countries here is the number of guns one can purchase. The Swiss restrict it to three. The US has no restriction on numbers. But again... per capita... the Swiss are more likely to own guns.

They do not require a permit for anyone over 18 buying a single shot or hunting rifle. Most states in the US DO require background checks for ALL guns purchased (exception being when an individual sells to another individual... and until Dec 2008 that was the same in Switzerland)

Assault weapons/fully automatic were banned (unless one got a special permit) in Switzerland in 1999. We banned them from 1994 to 2004. At this point we should look to see if our murder rate went up or down since 2004 to see if this ban is even necessary... but for now I will give you that this one was stricter for a few years.

ammunition laws are pretty similar.

The biggest difference in my opinion is training. Most of their men go through military service and are thus trained on the proper use and respect for the weapons.
 
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