Gee... I thought the health care debate was settled?

apple0154 said:
As far as health care a one payer/universal system is the fix. It's been used by dozens of countries. The citizens in every country with government health care are adamant about keeping it. The solution is simple and has been proven. The citizens in every country approve of it. A simple solution to please the citizens and end the discussion. The only problem is the Repubs constantly trying to thwart Obama's sensible, logical, proven plan. That's why a Democratic majority is necessary. The Repubs have to be put to the side and let government work.
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you have a point.

during all the riots in Paris, the burning cars in London,the violence in Egypt, or Greece.. not a single uprising has been "Give us a profit-based,privately controlled health care system like the USA"... anger over no jobs,not enough pay and no money? sure.. but none have been demanding our healthcare system.

they demand our freedom and our rights..but not our healthcare system...

hell, when we were writing Iraq's constitution for them, we gave them universal healthcare.. but nope, not for ourselves.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
LOL, for someone who claims to be so intelligent, you are so shortsighted.

yes, at this very moment there is really no mechanism to collect the 'penalty' from those who don't maintain a health insurance policy.
So yes, to add to your hysterical giddiness and pleasure, I and many others will end up dead because you feel a sense of entitlement to force me to do something I don't need or want.
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I'll wager you'll wish you had insurance when you have a massive heart attack upon the reelection of Obama.

Rune said:
You mean the way the Teabaggees (thanks Damo) spent the first year of the first Obama adminstration fruitlessly (which they knew in advance) trying to repeal the healthcare bill instead of working on employment? For now, it is not over.
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No, it's not over.

Congress returns to "work" today. The first and only order of business?

Repeal Obamacare!

Frikkin loons!
 
Rune said:
LOL, for someone who claims to be smarter than me, you are retarded. No, paranoid. No retarded.......forget it, you are just an idiot.

I don't have a sense of entitlement. John Roberts (appointed by your favorite son, you must be so proud IDIOT) determined the law to be legal.

Go ahead and kill yourself over a few hundred dollars, please.
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by continually FORGETTING that I am a Libertarian, thus Bush is NOT my 'favorite' son, you've completely pegged yourself as the idiot. congratulations. now, since the supreme court also determined that citizens united is legal as well, suck it up and stfu.
 
Howey said:
I'll wager you'll wish you had insurance when you have a massive heart attack upon the reelection of Obama.
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and i'll wager that you'll never realize how much of a moron you are. I've already determined that this country is fucked beyond repair no matter who wins the election.
 
bravo said:
What doesn't make sense it your personal interpretation of the words and what they mean...

The Founding Fathers, put into words how "a more Union" is to be achieved.......

1.....establish Justice,......................................................................equal treatment under the law(as in providing an equal playing field- JUSTICE for all)
2.....insure domestic Tranquility,........................................................enforcing and upholding the laws enacted by the People(as in protecting our borders)
3.....provide for the common defense,.................................................establish the Armed Forces for defense of the Nation and its sovereignty...
4.....promote the general Welfare,......................................................protection of the nations resources and infrastructure for everyones benefit
5.....and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.....guarantee and protect the freedoms given to us ...out inalienable rights

NO MORE and NO LESS and NO SUBSTITUTIONS or ADDITIONS without amending constitution as provided for by the Constitution....
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Why be concerned about people's freedom and defence and not be concerned about their lives? That's an absurd interpretation.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
\
who would want to get rid of cheap healthcare? of course they are adamant about keeping it. the issue is the quality of healthcare. what is the quality of healthcare in those other countries?

I think it's safe to say the quality is very good considering they're living longer.

Statistics for 2011. Life expectancy at birth

# 1 Monaco: 89.73 years
# 2 Macau: 84.41
# 3 San Marino: 83.01 years
# 4 Andorra: 82.43 years
# 5 Japan: 82.25
# 6 Guernsey: 82.16
# 7 Singapore: 82.14
# 8 Hong Kong: 82.04
# 9 Australia: 81.81 years
# 10 Italy: 81.77
= 11 Jersey: 81.38 years
= 11 Canada: 81.38
# 13 France: 81.19 years
# 14 Spain: 81.17 years
= 15 Switzerland: 81.07
= 15 Sweden: 81.07
# 17 Israel: 80.96
# 18 Iceland: 80.9
# 19 Anguilla: 80.87
# 20 Bermuda: 80.71 years
# 21 Cayman Islands: 80.68
# 22 Man, Isle of: 80.64
# 23 New Zealand: 80.59
# 24 Liechtenstein: 80.31
# 25 Norway: 80.2 years
# 26 Ireland: 80.19
# 27 Germany: 80.07
= 28 United Kingdom: 80.05
= 28 Jordan: 80.05
# 30 Greece: 79.92
# 31 Saint Pierre and Miquelon: 79.87
# 32 Austria: 79.78
= 33 Malta: 79.72
= 33 Faroe Islands: 79.72
# 35 Netherlands: 79.68
# 36 Luxembourg: 79.61
# 37 Belgium: 79.51
# 38 Virgin Islands: 79.33
# 39 Finland: 79.27
# 40 Martinique: 79.18
# 41 Turks and Caicos Islands: 79.11
# 42 Korea, South: 79.05
# 43 Wallis and Futuna: 78.98
# 44 Puerto Rico: 78.92
# 45 Bosnia and Herzegovina: 78.81
# 46 Gibraltar: 78.68
# 47 Denmark: 78.63
# 48 Portugal: 78.54
# 49 United States: 78.37
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop-life-expectancy-birth-total-population


and on the broken government part, if they have to ignore the constitution to please the masses, then it's broke. plain and simple. that's both republicans AND democrats fucking it up, not fixing it.
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Considering the US ranks 49th on that scale the only way one could construe Obamacare is against the Constitution is by believing the Founding Fathers' intention and that of the Constitution were to provide for a life that was short and filled wih untreated illnesses.
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apple0154 said:
Why be concerned about people's freedom and defence and not be concerned about their lives? That's an absurd interpretation.
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We are concerned about their lives, that's why, in 1965, we created a government-run public health care system for our elderly and poor.

Last I checked, no one wanted to get rid of it.... so you are correct... countries who have government health care, don't want to get rid of it!
 
Dixie said:
......I wonder if "gay abandon" meant the same thing?

Actually, Madison made some brilliant points about the General Welfare clause in the Federalist Papers. He argued that the clause simply couldn't mean what Hamiltonians viewed as a permission of government to provide things it deemed as general to the welfare. It was rather a RESTRICTIVE statement, as to what Congress was bound to do, LIMITING their power to interfere in any matter unless it involved something so general to the public that it was universally accepted. "General welfare" doesn't mean THEIR idea of what is general, it means that the welfare in question is general in essence. In other words, something that generally benefits all, and we can all generally agree that it does... Good examples of this would be, a transcontinental railroad or the interstate highway system.
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Or the lives of the citizens. I would imagine that was a general concern. Do you know anyone who doesn't give a damn if they live or die?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
when some idiot stretches the constitution beyond it's intent, yes. I disagree with them. when a group of idiots ignore the constitution for their own ideas, but that groups ideas force the rest of us to conform or face death, then it's broken.
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Or some people try to constrict the Constitution's meaning by some weird idea medical care is not warranted and people should die.
 
Dixie said:
We are concerned about their lives, that's why, in 1965, we created a government-run public health care system for our elderly and poor.

Last I checked, no one wanted to get rid of it.... so you are correct... countries who have government health care, don't want to get rid of it!
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Paul Ryan wanted to get rid of it.
 
apple0154 said:
Considering the US ranks 49th on that scale the only way one could construe Obamacare is against the Constitution is by believing the Founding Fathers' intention and that of the Constitution were to provide for a life that was short and filled wih untreated illnesses.
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is the US at 78.37 meaningfully worse than Denmark at 78.63....or even than Canada at 81.38?.....I mean seriously, is two more years of listening to some French guys in Quebec ruin your lives really worth it?........
 
Dixie said:
We are concerned about their lives, that's why, in 1965, we created a government-run public health care system for our elderly and poor.

Last I checked, no one wanted to get rid of it.... so you are correct... countries who have government health care, don't want to get rid of it!
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And countries continue to improve on their respective systems. For example, some countries now include prescription insurance so everyone can afford drugs.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
is the US at 78.37 meaningfully worse than Denmark at 78.63....or even than Canada at 81.38?.....I mean seriously, is two more years of listening to some French guys in Quebec ruin your lives really worth it?........
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Well, the combination of women and wine does present potential problems. :)
 
apple0154 said:
Or the lives of the citizens. I would imagine that was a general concern. Do you know anyone who doesn't give a damn if they live or die?
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But see.... here's the thing, apple.... you keep talking about "lives" and "living" as if there were some miraculous program in question, which somehow guarantees we have life and never have sickness or death. Now.... I would LOVE for Obamacare to be able to do this, and if it did, I would readily admit it was WELL worth, whatever number of trillions it was going to cost, because... hey... guaranteed life and no sickness or death? Pretty sweet!

The thing is, this is not what Obamacare can or will do. And my problem is, I know this.
 
apple0154 said:
And countries continue to improve on their respective systems. For example, some countries now include prescription insurance so everyone can afford drugs.
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We've continued to improve ours! President George W. Bush expanded the Medicare program more than it had ever been expanded, by including a program for prescription drugs for the elderly. You may not remember this, perhaps you were preparing an effigy to burn, but this is so! Look it up!
 
Dixie said:
LOL... I just schooled a pinhead yesterday on this, and he was claiming Ryan wanted to "cut" it, and now you claim he wanted to eliminate it?

You fucktards live in your own little delusional world, don't you?
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It's not just Paul Ryan. It's the GOP. And yes, they want to eliminate Medicare and put a voucher system in place in its stead.
 
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