Gee... I thought the health care debate was settled?

apple0154 said:
As far as health care a one payer/universal system is the fix. It's been used by dozens of countries. The citizens in every country with government health care are adamant about keeping it. The solution is simple and has been proven. The citizens in every country approve of it. A simple solution to please the citizens and end the discussion. The only problem is the Repubs constantly trying to thwart Obama's sensible, logical, proven plan. That's why a Democratic majority is necessary. The Repubs have to be put to the side and let government work.
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who would want to get rid of cheap healthcare? of course they are adamant about keeping it. the issue is the quality of healthcare. what is the quality of healthcare in those other countries?

and on the broken government part, if they have to ignore the constitution to please the masses, then it's broke. plain and simple. that's both republicans AND democrats fucking it up, not fixing it.
 
apple0154 said:
What part of the Constitution could possibly be relevant to today's health care? The only thing relevant is the Preamble which the "courts have referred to it as reliable evidence of, the Founding Fathers' intentions regarding the Constitution's meaning" and the Preamble reads. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

If people believe the Founding Fathers intentions were to form the best country on the planet by ensuring what is best for the citizens then certainly health has to figure at the top. How could they have possibly been interested in justice and tranquility and welfare and securing the blessings of liberty for the citizens while not caring about whether the citizens lived or died? It doesn't make sense for someone to say the Founding Fathers never cared about that because it wasn't specifically mentioned. How could they mention something they knew nothing about? It wasn't until 60 years later, in 1856, that Louis Pasteur discovered germs. It took another 70 years, in 1928, before antibiotics were discovered. Did the Founding Fathers even imagine one pill (Metoprolol) selling for as little as 25 cents for a daily dose, at today's prices, could increase a person's life by 20 years or more?

If the Founding Fathers' goal was to form a government ensuring citizens the best life possible surely that included life itself.
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your preamble bullshit is bullshit. but at least you're consistent about your bullshit.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
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who would want to get rid of cheap healthcare? of course they are adamant about keeping it. the issue is the quality of healthcare. what is the quality of healthcare in those other countries?

and on the broken government part, if they have to ignore the constitution to please the masses, then it's broke. plain and simple. that's both republicans AND democrats fucking it up, not fixing it.
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So when you agree with the Supremes, it's all good, but when you disagree the constitution is broken?
 
MaRuned said:
Dixie finally gets it!

It makes no difference what you argue, never has, never will.
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Then why is my board still flooded with pinheads arguing FOR Obamacare? Why haven't you all shut up and moved on? Seems to me like, if this were really over, and no one cared, and it made no difference what anyone thought, you'd be focusing on how to create some damn jobs or something, doesn't it?
 
bravo said:
What doesn't make sense it your personal interpretation of the words and what they mean...

The Founding Fathers, put into words how "a more Union" is to be achieved.......

1.....establish Justice,......................................................................equal treatment under the law(as in providing an equal playing field- JUSTICE for all)
2.....insure domestic Tranquility,........................................................enforcing and upholding the laws enacted by the People(as in protecting our borders)
3.....provide for the common defense,.................................................establish the Armed Forces for defense of the Nation and its sovereignty...
4.....promote the general Welfare,......................................................protection of the nations resources and infrastructure for everyones benefit
5.....and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.....guarantee and protect the freedoms given to us ...out inalienable rights

NO MORE and NO LESS and NO SUBSTITUTIONS or ADDITIONS without amending constitution as provided for by the Constitution....
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Yes, I am sure that infrastructure was a word used with gay abandon by the Founding Fathers!!
 
Dixie said:
Then why is my board still flooded with pinheads arguing FOR Obamacare? Why haven't you all shut up and moved on? Seems to me like, if this were really over, and no one cared, and it made no difference what anyone thought, you'd be focusing on how to create some damn jobs or something, doesn't it?
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Is it because watching your idiocy is so damned funny?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Yes, I am sure that infrastructure was a word used with gay abandon by the Founding Fathers!!
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......I wonder if "gay abandon" meant the same thing?

Actually, Madison made some brilliant points about the General Welfare clause in the Federalist Papers. He argued that the clause simply couldn't mean what Hamiltonians viewed as a permission of government to provide things it deemed as general to the welfare. It was rather a RESTRICTIVE statement, as to what Congress was bound to do, LIMITING their power to interfere in any matter unless it involved something so general to the public that it was universally accepted. "General welfare" doesn't mean THEIR idea of what is general, it means that the welfare in question is general in essence. In other words, something that generally benefits all, and we can all generally agree that it does... Good examples of this would be, a transcontinental railroad or the interstate highway system.
 
Rune said:
Is it because watching your idiocy is so damned funny?
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But you're not watching, you are arguing, well.. not YOU... YOU are trolling... but your liberal friends are arguing, or trying to argue, as if Obamacare were still on the table for discussion. If the issue is settled and over, why do we continue to see Liberals breaking their necks to comment still? It seems like they would have moved on to the next great liberal idea... hopefully, something about how to create new jobs? But we're not seeing that, we seem to be mired in some kind of funky time warp.... like it's 2007 again, and we have to re-debate Obamacare all over... even though it has passed and has been upheld, and the issue is supposedly settled.
 
Dixie said:
But you're not watching, you are arguing, well.. not YOU... YOU are trolling... but your liberal friends are arguing, or trying to argue, as if Obamacare were still on the table for discussion. If the issue is settled and over, why do we continue to see Liberals breaking their necks to comment still? It seems like they would have moved on to the next great liberal idea... hopefully, something about how to create new jobs? But we're not seeing that, we seem to be mired in some kind of funky time warp.... like it's 2007 again, and we have to re-debate Obamacare all over... even though it has passed and has been upheld, and the issue is supposedly settled.
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You mean the way the Teabaggees (thanks Damo) spent the first year of the first Obama adminstration fruitlessly (which they knew in advance) trying to repeal the healthcare bill instead of working on employment?

You are the idiot who has decided the debate is over, for whatever wacked out reason. The battle is far from over. This is 2012. If the act still stands in 2014, THEN it will be over, IF, and only if the GOP finally lets it go. For now, it is not over.
 
MaRuned said:
The battle is far from over. This is 2012. If the act still stands in 2014, THEN it will be over, IF, and only if the GOP finally lets it go. For now, it is not over.
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Ahhh... thanks for that clarification!

So it's NOT over? And if Republicans take more seats in Congress and the White House come November, it can all be repealed and/or replaced well before 2014. That certainly explains why the boards are absolutely flooded with frantic liberals arguing for Obamacare with every ounce of their being... that's what wasn't making any sense to me, but now that you've cleared it up, I completely understand!

THANKS AGAIN!
 
Rune said:
So when you agree with the Supremes, it's all good, but when you disagree the constitution is broken?
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when some idiot stretches the constitution beyond it's intent, yes. I disagree with them. when a group of idiots ignore the constitution for their own ideas, but that groups ideas force the rest of us to conform or face death, then it's broken.

something most of you idiots like to avoid is that the constitution is easy to read and understand if you leave the lawyers and judges out of it.
 
Dixie said:
Ahhh... thanks for that clarification!

So it's NOT over? And if Republicans take more seats in Congress and the White House come November, it can all be repealed and/or replaced well before 2014. That certainly explains why the boards are absolutely flooded with frantic liberals arguing for Obamacare with every ounce of their being... that's what wasn't making any sense to me, but now that you've cleared it up, I completely understand!

THANKS AGAIN!
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Glad I could be of service, though I had thought this would all be quite obvious, even to you.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
when some idiot stretches the constitution beyond it's intent, yes. I disagree with them. when a group of idiots ignore the constitution for their own ideas, but that groups ideas force the rest of us to conform or face death, then it's broken.

something most of you idiots like to avoid is that the constitution is easy to read and understand if you leave the lawyers and judges out of it.
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So you fear you will be put to death if you don't buy health insurance or pay the fine? As I understood from your ACA thread, no mechanism even exists to collect the fine. How do you make the leap from that to the death penalty? Or are you just being a drama queen?
 
Rune said:
Glad I could be of service, though I had thought this would all be quite obvious, even to you.
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Well I was only going by what Liberals were saying... We had LadyT doing her rendition of Na-na-na-na Good-bye... and we had Apple's preview of Obama II, and even Obama came on TV and said, "Now that the Court has spoken..." and all of this just sounded to me like, Liberals thought this was over and done, and it had all been settled. That's why it didn't make any sense they were all running around arguing FOR Obamacare, as if we were back in 2007 again.

Now that you've clarified this, I completely understand! Liberals hoped that all the hoopla and celebration, might actually convince some stupid people, that this issue really was over, and so there was no need to even think about it anymore, or worry their stupid little heads over what the RepublicRats were saying. I get it! Wow... well, I hope that worked for ya! Anyway, it's nice to know that we're not stuck in some weird time warp, I was beginning to wonder.
 
Rune said:
So you fear you will be put to death if you don't buy health insurance or pay the fine? As I understood from your ACA thread, no mechanism even exists to collect the fine. How do you make the leap from that to the death penalty? Or are you just being a drama queen?
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LOL, for someone who claims to be so intelligent, you are so shortsighted.

yes, at this very moment there is really no mechanism to collect the 'penalty' from those who don't maintain a health insurance policy. What this will do is increase the number of people who scrutinize their W2s and tax withholdings to ensure that as little as possible is left over for the IRS to acrue interest on this leftover cash for a year. As the revenues for these unpaid penalties and interest become more evident to the feds (will take less than two years, my prediction), the congress will take immediate action to rectify this by moving this particular piece of legislation and penalty recovery in to the same category as all other taxes. At that point in time, millions of people will then become tax evaders, according to the letter of the law, and the IRS will then proceed to steal as much money and property as possible from these millions. Some of these millions will resist, myself included, which will then precipitate jack booted thuggery by armed and violent IRS agents.

So yes, to add to your hysterical giddiness and pleasure, I and many others will end up dead because you feel a sense of entitlement to force me to do something I don't need or want.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
LOL, for someone who claims to be so intelligent, you are so shortsighted.

yes, at this very moment there is really no mechanism to collect the 'penalty' from those who don't maintain a health insurance policy. What this will do is increase the number of people who scrutinize their W2s and tax withholdings to ensure that as little as possible is left over for the IRS to acrue interest on this leftover cash for a year. As the revenues for these unpaid penalties and interest become more evident to the feds (will take less than two years, my prediction), the congress will take immediate action to rectify this by moving this particular piece of legislation and penalty recovery in to the same category as all other taxes. At that point in time, millions of people will then become tax evaders, according to the letter of the law, and the IRS will then proceed to steal as much money and property as possible from these millions. Some of these millions will resist, myself included, which will then precipitate jack booted thuggery by armed and violent IRS agents.

So yes, to add to your hysterical giddiness and pleasure, I and many others will end up dead because you feel a sense of entitlement to force me to do something I don't need or want.
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LOL, for someone who claims to be smarter than me, you are retarded. No, paranoid. No retarded.......forget it, you are just an idiot.

I don't have a sense of entitlement. John Roberts (appointed by your favorite son, you must be so proud IDIOT) determined the law to be legal.

Go ahead and kill yourself over a few hundred dollars, please.
 
Dixie said:
Anyway, it's nice to know that we're not stuck in some weird time warp, I was beginning to wonder.
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it IS a timewarp......liberals are campaigning for Obama by saying things like "He's not Bush" and "if you vote for Obama things will be better than they were for the last four years"........
 
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