Former Swiss Intelligence Officer blows the whistle on West's Ukraine War Narrative

[Scott]

The international Joint Investigative Team into the downing of Flight MH17 comprised members from the Netherlands (where the flight started) plus Malaysia, Australia, Belgium and Ukraine. After four years' investigation the JIT concluded that MH17 was brought down by a Russian Buk missile fired from separatist-controlled territory in Donetsk. A criminal trial is just concluding, but none of the accused showed up – they stayed in Russia.

You have evidence to suggest that the JIT is wrong? Please show us.

I do, but we've clearly veered off the subject of this thread, so I've made another thread on the subject. It's here:

Ukraine and Malaysia Flights Mh 17 and MH 370 | justplainpolitics.com

 

[Scott]

How do the people of Mariupol feel about joining Russia, any ideas? It's in the Donetsk Oblast, so I guess 99% of them are in favor of joining, if there are any left after the Russian siege. The city authorities estimate 20,000 killed, but that may be an exaggeration.

Did you know the nationalist Azov Batallion used civilians as shields in Mariupol?


I decided to watch a documentary from the RT network just now to find out a bit more. It's here:

https://rtd.rt.com/films/mariupol-a-homecoming/


I can imagine that you might refuse to watch it based on the fact that it was produced by the RT network, but I think it'd be a shame, as I think it reveals a lot of interesting information, including the fact that after Euromaidan and the removal of elected Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian military was sent to Mariupol to quell resistance there to the new regime. Did you know the local police force sided with the Mariupol protesters and was slaughtered? Wikipedia even has a page on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mariupol_(2014)

So yes, it's quite understandable why Mariupol would want to join Russia.

 

[Scott]

Is it Ms Phoenyx? I didn't know that!

No, it's not. I already told DU, but he seems to like irritating me. I've since thread banned him from a new thread I've made, may do so in future ones as well.

 

[LurchAddams]

I've decided it would be good to make a thread of this article here. The translated article I quote below was posted back in April, with the original french article posted in March, but to date, I have not seen a more succinct article that explains what led up to Russia's military operation in Ukraine. I was about to post the following excerpt in another thread but came to the conclusion that it would make more sense to simply make a thread of this and then just reference this thread when the subject of Russia's motivation for starting its military operation is brought up. I will note that in Putin's speech, he gives 2 reasons for his military operation, only one of which was the situation in Donbass, the other being Ukraine's wish to become part of NATO and the U.S.'s wish to make it so. However, as evidenced by Putin's negligible reaction to Sweden and Finland possibly joining NATO soon, I believe that the Ukrainian government's 8 year war in the Donbass region, a lot of whose residents are either ethnic Russians, Russian speakers and/or have close ties to Russia, was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The original article is in french, but it was translated and posted in Scheerpost. They apparently mistook his working with NATO to mean that he was a former NATO military analyst instead of a former Swiss Intelligence Officer. Regardless, I believe his knowledge of the situation speaks for itself. Alright, with that said, here's an excerpt from the article in question...


**
Ukrainian preparations in the contact zone continue. The Russian Parliament is alarmed and on February 15 asks Vladimir Putin to recognize the independence of the Republics, which he refuses.


On February 17, President Joe Biden announces that Russia will attack Ukraine in the coming days. How does he know? Mystery… But since the 16th, the artillery shelling of the populations of Donbass has increased dramatically, as shown by the daily reports of OSCE observers. Naturally, neither the media, nor the European Union, nor NATO, nor any Western government reacts and intervenes. We will say later that this is Russian disinformation. In fact, it seems that the European Union and some countries purposely glossed over the massacre of the people of Donbass, knowing that it would provoke Russian intervention.

[snip]

View attachment 23599

In fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers. from the Donbass being run over.
**

Source:
Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative | Scheerpost

Putin has no rights to Ukraine. He's a war criminal slaughtering innocent civilians and laying waste to cities and critical infrastructure. There can be no justification for this. The invasion should not have happened.

 

[Scott]

Putin has no rights to Ukraine.

Your focus is all wrong. Putin decided to recognize the Lugansk and Donetsk republics on February 21, promising to defend them and starting his military operation in Ukraine to do so shortly thereafter, but his own lower house of Parliament was pushing him to recognize the Donbass republics 6 days before he agreed to do so, on February 15th. It's true that not all Russias supported Putin's decision to start his military operation in Ukraine, but its' equally true that there were others who were raring to go to defend the Donbass republics.

For me, the most important thing is what the people in Eastern Ukraine themselves want. The referendums strongly suggest that they wanted to join Russia. I'm fine with Elon Musk's idea of redoing the referendums with more international observers, but people should have a right to decide who they wish to be governed by.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Your focus is all wrong. Putin decided to recognize the Lugansk and Donetsk republics on February 21, promising to defend them and starting his military operation in Ukraine to do so shortly thereafter, but his own lower house of Parliament was pushing him to recognize the Donbass republics 6 days before he agreed to do so, on February 15th. It's true that not all Russias supported Putin's decision to start his military operation in Ukraine, but its' equally true that there were others who were raring to go to defend the Donbass republics.

For me, the most important thing is what the people in Eastern Ukraine themselves want. The referendums strongly suggest that they wanted to join Russia. I'm fine with Elon Musk's idea of redoing the referendums with more international observers, but people should have a right to decide who they wish to be governed by.

Da, comrade Phoenyx. Your knowledge of Russia is much better than your knowledge of the US, comrade.

Are you safe in Mother Russia or do you live in Eastern Ukraine?

 

[LurchAddams]

Your focus is all wrong. Putin decided to recognize the Lugansk and Donetsk republics on February 21, promising to defend them and starting his military operation in Ukraine to do so shortly thereafter, but his own lower house of Parliament was pushing him to recognize the Donbass republics 6 days before he agreed to do so, on February 15th. It's true that not all Russias supported Putin's decision to start his military operation in Ukraine, but its' equally true that there were others who were raring to go to defend the Donbass republics.

For me, the most important thing is what the people in Eastern Ukraine themselves want. The referendums strongly suggest that they wanted to join Russia. I'm fine with Elon Musk's idea of redoing the referendums with more international observers, but people should have a right to decide who they wish to be governed by.

There are always going to be people that support assholes decisions. Look at all the trump supporters on this forum who think the 1/6 attack was fine. Just because a few Russian people support Putin's war crimes certainly does not make it right.

 

[anatta]

Your focus is all wrong. Putin decided to recognize the Lugansk and Donetsk republics on February 21, promising to defend them and starting his military operation in Ukraine to do so shortly thereafter, but his own lower house of Parliament was pushing him to recognize the Donbass republics 6 days before he agreed to do so, on February 15th. It's true that not all Russias supported Putin's decision to start his military operation in Ukraine, but its' equally true that there were others who were raring to go to defend the Donbass republics.

For me, the most important thing is what the people in Eastern Ukraine themselves want. The referendums strongly suggest that they wanted to join Russia. I'm fine with Elon Musk's idea of redoing the referendums with more international observers, but people should have a right to decide who they wish to be governed by.

Putin should have stuck with the LNR and DNR recognitions.
Going after Kyiv was a disaster for Ukraine and Russia and even the US with Russian sanctions
( diesel and fertilizer shortages)

 

[Scott]

Putin should have stuck with the LNR and DNR recognitions.
Going after Kyiv was a disaster for Ukraine and Russia and even the US with Russian sanctions
( diesel and fertilizer shortages)

There is some debate as to whether or not Russia was really trying to take Kyiv. If they were, I can understand the reasoning- it's where the head of the Ukrainian government is. Remove said government and in theory, the war might have been over long ago. Now, I can certainly agree that any temporary peace achieved this way may have just resulted in problems down the road, as the U.S. experienced in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In any case, for whatever reason, they withdrew from the outskirts of Kyiv and focused their military campaign on eastern Ukraine.

As for only sticking with LNR and DNR recognitions, I think that would have been worse than useless. If all Russia had done was recognize them and let Ukraine continue its military assault on the the Donbass republics, I believe people would have considered Russia's recognition of a republic to be worth nothing more than a goodwill gesture. By not only recognizing the republics, but coming to defend them in short order, I think it's safe to say that no one will ignore Russia's recognition of another nation that's under assault by its own alleged government again.

I think it's telling that it only took a few months for the U.S. to go to war in Afghanistan after around 3,000 Americans 9/11 and most of the world was ok with that, but after over 3 times as many eastern Ukrainians, many of whom were ethnic Russians died over the course of 8 years in the Ukrainian civil war, the west is up at arms on the whole thing.

I just hope that this conflict doesn't escalate to the point that one or more nukes are used.

 

[anatta]

There is some debate as to whether or not Russia was really trying to take Kyiv. If they were, I can understand the reasoning- it's where the head of the Ukrainian government is. Remove said government and in theory, the war might have been over long ago. Now, I can certainly agree that any temporary peace achieved this way may have just resulted in problems down the road, as the U.S. experienced in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In any case, for whatever reason, they withdrew from the outskirts of Kyiv and focused their military campaign on eastern Ukraine.

As for only sticking with LNR and DNR recognitions, I think that would have been worse than useless. If all Russia had done was recognize them and let Ukraine continue its military assault on the the Donbass republics, I believe people would have considered Russia's recognition of a republic to be worth nothing more than a goodwill gesture. By not only recognizing the republics, but coming to defend them in short order, I think it's safe to say that no one will ignore Russia's recognition of another nation that's under assault by its own alleged government again.

I think it's telling that it only took a few months for the U.S. to go to war in Afghanistan after around 3,000 Americans 9/11 and most of the world was ok with that, but after over 3 times as many eastern Ukrainians, many of whom were ethnic Russians died over the course of 8 years in the Ukrainian civil war, the west is up at arms on the whole thing.

I just hope that this conflict doesn't escalate to the point that one or more nukes are used.

i should have been more clear.
recognition" also includes moving overwhelming Russian troops into Donbas.
And then war against Kyiv with the backing of the local population

Kyiv wasn't a feint/ Putin lost his armor there because of JAVELIN -which he should have understood
as TOW missiles were used in Syria against armor as well

 

[moon]

A survey by Pew Research Center found that in eastern Ukraine 58% of Russian speakers wanted the country to remain united, while 27% thought regions should be allowed to secede if they wished.
https://web.archive.org/web/2014050...es-Ukraine-Russia-Report-FINAL-May-8-2014.pdf

That was in 2014. How many still see themselves as Russian rather than Ukrainian after Putin’s "special operation" is anybody’s guess.

Taking your figures on trust- for the moment- was that before or after the US -led coup and the killing of many pro-Russian Ukrainians by the Azov Nazis ?

 

[moon]

Phantasmal is a her, just saying.

And therefore subject to your misogyny, eh maggot.

 

[McRocket]

How do the people of Mariupol feel about joining Russia, any ideas? It's in the Donetsk Oblast, so I guess 99% of them are in favor of joining, if there are any left after the Russian siege. The city authorities estimate 20,000 killed, but that may be an exaggeration.

Mariupol was NOT inside the DPR.

True or false?
The VAST majority of the people inside the LPR, DPR and Crimea do NOT want to be part of Ukraine.
True or False?

 

[moon]

Dutch Uncle

When you think of my purple dick do you picture it fully erect and throbbing, Ms. Moon? https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...tation-as-military-superpower-shattered/page6 #83

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...tation-as-military-superpower-shattered/page6 #83

Da, comrade Phoenyx. Your knowledge of Russia is much better than your knowledge of the US, comrade.

Are you safe in Mother Russia or do you live in Eastern Ukraine?

If I were a foreign agent intending to harm America I'd pose as an uber-patriot with a purple prick.



Haw, haw..........................................haw.

 

[McRocket]

Putin should have stuck with the LNR and DNR recognitions.
Going after Kyiv was a disaster for Ukraine and Russia and even the US with Russian sanctions
( diesel and fertilizer shortages)

I agree completely.

I would have had no problem WHATSOEVER with him trying to free the LPR and DPR of Ukraine attacks that had killed over 3,000 innocent civilians.

But, he got greedy.
And he is paying for that greed now.

 

[moon]

I agree completely.

I would have had no problem WHATSOEVER with him trying to free the LPR and DPR of Ukraine attacks that had killed over 3,000 innocent civilians.

But, he got greedy.
And he is paying for that greed now.

I don't agree. A quick collapse of the Azov regime , achieved by subduing Kyiv, would have resulted in no war at all. It was worth a shot- but bungled by the commanders.

Now we're all faced with the , unwanted, alternative- a NATO proxy war along with a frozen Europe, third world starvation and a tactical nuclear threat. US fuel barons and arms dealers , good party donors, are the current winners of Biden's Nord Stream war.

 

[McRocket]

I don't agree. A quick collapse of the Azov regime , achieved by subduing Kyiv, would have resulted in no war at all. It was worth a shot- but bungled by the commanders.

Now we're all faced with the , unwanted, alternative- a NATO proxy war along with a frozen Europe, third world starvation and a tactical nuclear threat. US fuel barons and arms dealers , good party donors, are the current winners of Biden's Nord Stream war.

There is no proof whatsoever that capturing Kiev would have ended the war.

If you are Zelenskyy?
With GIGNATIC promises from NATO of top-of-the-line weapons and hundreds of billions of dollars?
Plus, Biden screaming in your ear to 'fight on'?

Are you going to surrender if Russia takes Kiev?
Or are you going to Lviv and keep the fight going?

No offense, but the answer is obvious...the latter.

 

[moon]

There is no proof whatsoever that capturing Kiev would have ended the war.

Of course not. There is only proof of the catastrophe that occurred because Zelensky wasn't de-throned.

Instead of a calmed arena you have hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced and a devastated country totally screwed by an ego-freak who plays Jewish tunes on a piano with his cock. Believe it- far better if Kyiv fell.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1498085663786344452

 

[McRocket]

Of course not. There is only proof of the catastrophe that occurred because Zelensky wasn't de-throned.

What are you talking about?

You typed above:
'A quick collapse of the Azov regime , achieved by subduing Kyiv, would have resulted in no war at all.'

You were specifically referring to Kiev being captured ('subduing').
And that is what I commented about.

 

[moon]

What are you talking about?

You typed above:
'A quick collapse of the Azov regime , achieved by subduing Kyiv, would have resulted in no war at all.'

You were specifically referring to Kiev being captured ('subduing').
And that is what I commented about.

No- you agreed with Annatta that Putin should not have approached Kyiv. I disagreed with you both.