Florida book bans - the first step before burning

[ThatOwlWoman]

You are right, except for maybe the last part. I could be wrong, but I believe Disney requires a high school diploma, even for foreign "guest" workers. If Florida can no longer produce workers with even a high school education...

Missouri, once upon a time, was a state fairly evenly divided between (R) and (D). Those of us who graduated h.s. in the 60s and 70s had a state-mandated education that was pretty much the equivalent of a community college associates degree now. Now it's an (R) super majority and educational standards have been drastically lowered. My late husband's best friend owned an auto repair shop in the 80s and 90s (he passed away in 2000). He wouldn't hire anyone to work the cash register who didn't have at least an associates. He said h.s. kids couldn't even make change in their heads, understand how to do shop inventory, and other mundane unskilled tasks.

Was this the fault of Republicans? Yes. When people of my age were in h.s., it was the Cold War. Back then Republicans valued education and saw it as a weapon against the Soviets. They had no problem mandating a tough curriculum -- and paying for it via funding schools and teachers. At the same time, they also funded vo-tech schools for those not interested in university. Then they changed and began the "elitism" thing that we see today, where the college-educated are seen as stuck-up snobs.

 

[TOP]

Low pay is one thing. Low pay coupled with horrid working conditions is another. Most social workers make almost nothing, but are dedicated. It is almost impossible to get a feeling of accomplishment in a school now.

As I have mentioned before it's not an easy job... and these days yes...even more difficult than in the past... as for social workers? They are very underpaid and overworked and certainly in short supply... not a profession you go into for the wrong reasons ...and certainly not a profession you go into to be some kind of political activist social warrior... that's a story for another time...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The reason for aggression against teachers, is that they tend to be Left leaning. Union busting issues, coupled with budget cuts by Republicans are two reasons for that reality.

Republicans want to push kids out of public education, and into for profit (Republican donor) charter schools.

Bingo. They also want taxpayers to fund educations at parochial/religious schools.

I think the anger against teachers also comes from parents who are stressed with work, don't want to or don't have time to assist their kids with their assignments and homework, and blame the scapegoat who assigned it.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I find it so amusing that someone is upset that I had a successful teaching career.....( License and Certification....Professional Education of the Handicapped K-12...Developmentally Handicapped...K-12 (195120) ) just FYI...

https://flcertify.fldoe.org/datamart/searchByNameFLDOE.do...yep..still there...

 

[Dutch Uncle]

that post was specifically in the context of people let go for not getting vaxxed.

you played up the racial angle, because you're a racist.

as you have just now demonstrated again.

^^^
On JPP's Top Ten list of "Most likely to commit mass murder and suicide".

 

[TOP]

It is a fact that if you treat people like shit, most will quit. There might be a few independently wealthy teachers, willing to be banned from teaching in the classroom, willing to stay as teachers, but most will leave.

Good teachers will be among the first ones to leave. They will feel the restrictions first. And they will have the most options. With salaries going up everywhere but teaching, leaving teaching is looking better and better.



No teacher shortage in Finland. No teacher shortage in many countries. If you offer a good salary, then the teachers will appear.

We'll have to agree to disagree... I know who's staying in the profession and I know who's leaving and why... At least locally... which is obviously what I'm focusing on because I'm here and involved ...you can offer all the money in the world...teachersay "appear"... but that's no guarantee that they'll stay... teachers don't go into teaching for the money... I'm pretty sure I just said that... do they deserve more money ? Absolutely... it's getting better... Good teachers are not going to leave though...unless it's time to retire... I wish you had a better understanding of the teaching profession...

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Because we place little value on education in many states. Budget issues typically make it hard for a teacher to get full time, guaranteed positions when they start out. 'Tenure' is a 4 letter word.

Agreed. The focus is on making or saving money, not becoming an educated adult.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

It is a fact that if you treat people like shit, most will quit. There might be a few independently wealthy teachers, willing to be banned from teaching in the classroom, willing to stay as teachers, but most will leave.

Good teachers will be among the first ones to leave. They will feel the restrictions first. And they will have the most options. With salaries going up everywhere but teaching, leaving teaching is looking better and better.



No teacher shortage in Finland. No teacher shortage in many countries. If you offer a good salary, then the teachers will appear.

And good salary *and* respect and support from both administration and from the parents.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

And good salary *and* respect and support from both administration and from the parents.

Teachers are routinely vilified by the Alt-Right. This attitude, which seems to have taken root in the 90s, is one major component in the deterioration of the American education system.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

You would be in the vast minority today. I was in NYC schools until 3rd grade.

Back when a city school education far exceeded that of the suburbs. I was at least 1 year ahead in class when we moved to the burbs. In the city, I was physically/mentally abused by more than one teacher. Of course, the abuse was worse at home, but I digress.

Somewhere the attitude shifted to blaming teachers for the failures at home. Overcrowding created scenarios where teachers couldn't possibly cover everything to the extent necessary during the day, so parental input was important.

My stepson was the valedictorian of his high school class. When he was in grammar school, there were rare times that he didn't quite grasp the day's lesson and I had to work on it with him. If he told me that something wasn't fully covered, then something wasn't fully covered.

With a support system at home, it isn't an issue the next day in class.

Said support system doesn't exist in many homes now.

Nope. And that's one of our biggest problems with education these days. During the pandemic, my youngest found that out the hard way. Her district went virtual. She would spend hours creating videos that were fun, engaging, and that involved work-along-with-teacher activities. She printed up -- at her own expense -- the lessons and activities and personally delivered them to the students' homes. Yet when it was the appointed time for the Zoom class, only a few kids attended. She teaches the early childhood/special needs group of 3-5 year olds, so obviously a parent or daycare provider was needed to log the child into the Zoom classes and help them with the activities. This was at a school district in Illinois with lower-income families. Some of the parents even complained to the school that the teachers were giving their kids "too much work" and that's why they didn't make them attend the virtual classroom lessons. These parents were home with the kids, but "too busy" to bother.

 

[Walt]

And good salary *and* respect and support from both administration and from the parents.

If you make teaching a job that applicants compete for, many of our problems would be solved. Instead, DeSantis is making teaching a job that has to beg whoever willing to do it to take the job.

He wants to hire teachers who do not have college degrees. Other states are hiring teachers aids who do not have high school diplomas to teach high school classes.

Meanwhile, Finland requires a masters degree to teach anywhere in their schools. That is 5 years of education past high school.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

As I have mentioned before it's not an easy job... and these days yes...even more difficult than in the past... as for social workers? They are very underpaid and overworked and certainly in short supply... not a profession you go into for the wrong reasons ...and certainly not a profession you go into to be some kind of political activist social warrior... that's a story for another time...

So you believe that a teacher who has a book in her classroom with a gay character, or an immigrant character, or a black character, or a character with two moms -- is being a SJW. Figures.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

We'll have to agree to disagree... I know who's staying in the profession and I know who's leaving and why... At least locally... which is obviously what I'm focusing on because I'm here and involved ...you can offer all the money in the world...teachersay "appear"... but that's no guarantee that they'll stay... teachers don't go into teaching for the money... I'm pretty sure I just said that... do they deserve more money ? Absolutely... it's getting better... Good teachers are not going to leave though...unless it's time to retire... I wish you had a better understanding of the teaching profession...

Someone who claims to be an educator but whose syntax, grammar, spelling, and punctuation indicate that clearly she is not, makes a poor advocate for "understanding."

 

[Dutch Uncle]

LOL. Predictions are so much fun.

I'm not faulting you for pointing out (ad nauseum) that history shows a big win for Republicans in the past mid terms would occur. Sometimes, the educated among us surprise us at the ballot box.

The trick is to inspire people to vote. Hillary/Sanders issues caused kids to just stay home due to lack of inspiration coupled with Sanders' fueled spite.

Then they realized the folly of ignoring the warnings that the Supreme Court was at stake in the '16 election. Too little, too late. It will be very easy to convince this demographic that a rogue Supreme Court will back a national book ban, along with further restrictions on abortion.

I expect D.Santis to run on a national abortion ban.

How do you expect that to play?

Politicians tricking Americans is part of the problem. It's one reason why I believe 40% of Americans voters (out of the 60% who actually vote) are disaffected about the two major parties.

It wouldn't surprise me if Ron ran on that agenda, but that's a problem for the Republicans for two reasons: 1) it's a switch from the ideology of "let the States" decide and 2) he'd have to temper it with exceptions as noted by states which refused a flat ban.

OTOH, I expect the DNC candidate to run on a gun ban agenda..again tempered to make it more palatable for most voters.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

^^^
On JPP's Top Ten list of "Most likely to commit mass murder and suicide".

As difficult as reading comprehension and responding to actual comments based on what was actually said is for him, I have my doubts if he can even figure out his How To Use This Gun manual.

 

[Walt]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Why? You treat employees with options like shit, they will take the other options. That should not be something that is disagreed about.

Many local and state governments are using inflation to decrease teachers' pay. Meanwhile their alternatives have pay shooting up much faster than inflation. Are teachers going to become homeless just to keep teaching? Are they going to do that even though they are disrespected, and even hated by Republicans? There is an outer limit.

I mean, if you argue they will take a lot more shit before most of them quit, then we can agree to disagree. But, if your point is they will take unlimited shit, and never quit, that is just crazy.

 

[TOP]

I guess the bottom line is that STRS recognizes my 30 plus years of teaching and compensates me...every...single...month.... it is what it is... ...and I'm always happy to have civil adult discussions about teaching...anytime...
.

 

[Walt]

Missouri, once upon a time, was a state fairly evenly divided between (R) and (D). Those of us who graduated h.s. in the 60s and 70s had a state-mandated education that was pretty much the equivalent of a community college associates degree now. Now it's an (R) super majority and educational standards have been drastically lowered. My late husband's best friend owned an auto repair shop in the 80s and 90s (he passed away in 2000). He wouldn't hire anyone to work the cash register who didn't have at least an associates. He said h.s. kids couldn't even make change in their heads, understand how to do shop inventory, and other mundane unskilled tasks.

Was this the fault of Republicans? Yes. When people of my age were in h.s., it was the Cold War. Back then Republicans valued education and saw it as a weapon against the Soviets. They had no problem mandating a tough curriculum -- and paying for it via funding schools and teachers. At the same time, they also funded vo-tech schools for those not interested in university. Then they changed and began the "elitism" thing that we see today, where the college-educated are seen as stuck-up snobs.

Exactly, you need some education for just about any job imaginable.

 

[Walt]

that post was specifically in the context of people let go for not getting vaxxed.

I said there were many uneducated white males who were hoping to get by on just being white males. Many of them are not vaccinated. I never said they are the only group in America not vaccinated.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

If you make teaching a job that applicants compete for, many of our problems would be solved. Instead, DeSantis is making teaching a job that has to beg whoever willing to do it to take the job.

He wants to hire teachers who do not have college degrees. Other states are hiring teachers aids who do not have high school diplomas to teach high school classes.

Meanwhile, Finland requires a masters degree to teach anywhere in their schools. That is 5 years of education past high school.

Finland consistently ranks at the top of "World's Happiest Countries," too. I bet there is a connection. I also bet that Finnish parents have great respect for education and educators, and insist that their kids do as well.

It's interesting that when Asians immigrate to the U.S., their kids often excel at school and graduate with honors. It's not that they are smarter than native-born kids. Their cultures teach that education is very valuable and necessary to move up. They also teach respect for educators.

I think that if we could solve the problem of disrespect by parents, and encourage more involvement by them in their kids' educations, we would see great improvements.