firing squads, poison gas, no strangulation?? trump approves more execution methods

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Bill said:
Isn't one innocent man sitting on death row to many??
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No. I know that sounds harsh, but the reality is mistakes are going to happen. If the system in place is being as thorough as it can to ensure that doesn't happen, then it is working. Yes, we should still improve on that where possible but we shouldn't let a mistake by it rule the system. To change the old saying a bit. It isn't better that ten guilty men go free rather than a innocent man go to prison... That's more the case we're talking about today.

Look at what's happening with those cities that are ending cash bail bonds and just letting criminals out of jail once arraigned and charged.
 
Nordberg said:
The Innocence Project has gotten almost 400 people out of prison via bad trials and DNA .97 percent were charged with rape or murder. How many innocent people have been executed? Executing people puts us with the brutal nations of the world. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/international/executions-around-the-world
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400 out of what, millions of cases? There are over 1.2 million locked up in the US today. Four hundred doesn't amount to one in ten thousand cases. That's really an infinitesimally small portion. I'd say the system is doing pretty damn good to have that few errors in it.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
400 out of what, millions of cases? There are over 1.2 million locked up in the US today. Four hundred doesn't amount to one in ten thousand cases. That's really an infinitesimally small portion. I'd say the system is doing pretty damn good to have that few errors in it.
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What percentage of innocent people being jailed for decades and then executed reaches your threshold. How many innocent have suffered in an unimaginably cruel way? I bet you can guess the Project cannot defend all. There are many more suffering and who will be killed. There are many innocent we killed. Do you really think that is OK?
Just put them in jail for life. Problem solved.
 
The underpinning, uncivilized, flaw in the death penalty is that the authorities want to kill.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
That's a good point. I don't know what the outrage here is about. The feds should always defer to the states in these matters unless there is some clear and present danger to the public as to why they should not defer.

I'm conflicted about the death penalty. On one hand my sense of justice says that there are some who should not be allowed to walk among us, even if we lock them up in solitary confinement until they croak of natural causes. On the other hand there have been far too many death penalty sentences of the mentally-deficient, mentally-ill, too-poor-to-afford-effective-counsel, totally innocent (way too many of those!), and then there is the racial and wealth disparity too.

I'd rather reserve the death penalty for totally egregious cases. And make the executions public.
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You never know when the totally egregious case turns out to be totally innocent.

If we are not reasonably sure the person is guilty he should not be convicted.
 
Nordberg said:
What percentage of innocent people being jailed for decades and then executed reaches your threshold. How many innocent have suffered in an unimaginably cruel way? I bet you can guess the Project cannot defend all. There are many more suffering and who will be killed. There are many innocent we killed. Do you really think that is OK?
Just put them in jail for life. Problem solved.
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No system of justice on the scale it's practiced anywhere in the world today is going to have perfect outcomes. There will be mistakes.

What percentage of people in jail are innocent? A tiny fraction of a percent. How many of those have suffered "unimaginably cruel" conditions? None, at least in the US. The Project you mention is trying, but they have a very limited clientele. Few, if any facing a death sentence have any plausible defense for what they were convicted of that it might be overturned.

And, yes, I do think that the occasional mistake is going to happen and that we have to live with that. Better that than ten real murders, rapists, thugs, whatever go free and commit yet more crimes because we want a perfect system.

You then state, "Just put them in jail for life. Problem solved." What happens when that person is like Thomas Silverstein? He murdered two inmates and a guard while in prison serving multiple life sentences. Did they deserve to die because Silverstein was kept alive? Life in prison is absolutely no guarantee that a vicious criminal won't commit more crimes while in prison. How many sentences of "Life without parole" can you give to someone for those crimes before it becomes meaningless to them? Oh, you've sentenced me to my fifth life without parole term...

Tell you what. Why don't you volunteer to guard such prisoners for a few years and risk your life doing it before you so blithely toss out that life in prison will solve the problem of their criminal activity.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Absolutely wrong, completely wrong.
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To the contrary. That's why they vote for death, sentence to death and execute death.
You'll be flogging a dead horse to attempt to argue otherwise.


But go ahead.........................


Haw, haw.......................haw.
 
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moon said:
To the contrary. That's why they vote for death, sentence to death and execute death.
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Then prove it. Show us how juries and jurors across the US just want to kill criminals and vote for their execution regularly. Because that's how somebody ends up being sentenced to death for their crimes. It isn't the decision of some lone judge ruling from the bench.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
On the death penalty, two things:

First, it is an obvious necessity for a society to have. Why? Because there are criminals who are so dangerous that they constitute one to other prisoners and the guards in any prison they are placed. Why should a society subject inmates who are doing their time correctly and the guards that watch them to the dangers of being attacked and injured or killed by a criminal inmate? Life without parole is no deterrent to such a person. Solitary confinement is no guarantee that they cannot carry out such crimes in prison. Thus, the way to deal with such persons is eliminate them entirely from society by death.

The manner of execution so long as it is reasonably humane is almost irrelevant. Why should a person sentenced to death for the most serious crimes our society has be treated gently as if those putting him to death were the guilty party?
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Since DNA matching has come into being, over 50 murder convictions of Death Row inmates in Texas have been overturned.

Most of them are minorities that were wrongly convicted so that some White District Attorney could win re-election.

SO there is that!
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Then prove it. Show us how juries and jurors across the US just want to kill criminals and vote for their execution regularly. Because that's how somebody ends up being sentenced to death for their crimes. It isn't the decision of some lone judge ruling from the bench.
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I said the AUTHORITIES. The AUTHORITIES put the route to death in place. Then the sadistic fuckers let subservient saps like Billy bath-tub take the individual decision- and they wash their hands and blame the saps .

Bath-tub Billy applauds the murder of Palestinian children. Put the subservient sap on YOUR jury .

Haw, haw............................haw.
 
Geeko Sportivo said:
Since DNA matching has come into being, over 50 murder convictions of Death Row inmates in Texas have been overturned.

Most of them are minorities that were wrongly convicted so that some White District Attorney could win re-election.

SO there is that!
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Different issue. What you are describing is criminal lawyers / prosecutors using misusing their authority for personal gain. In my view, the best solution to that is trial and conviction of them for this followed by giving them the sentence they gave their victims. Nothing works better than making a public example out of the truly guilty. Besides, the world has too many lawyers anyway. Nobody's going to miss a few.
 
moon said:
I said the AUTHORITIES. The AUTHORITIES put the route to death in place. Then the sadistic fuckers let subservient saps like Billy bath-tub take the individual decision- and they wash their hands and blame the saps .


Haw, haw............................haw.
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No, the "authorities" don't do that. Death sentences require a jury trial and the jury decides that outcome. The prosecutor can only ask for it, but the jury decides. The authorities then act on that decision. But today such sentences automatically are sent to appeals court level for review and often to state supreme courts for further review.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, the "authorities" don't do that. Death sentences require a jury trial and the jury decides that outcome. The prosecutor can only ask for it, but the jury decides. The authorities then act on that decision. But today such sentences automatically are sent to appeals court level for review and often to state supreme courts for further review.
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Pray tell who puts capital punishment on the statute book. You ? Bath-tub Billy ? The prosecutor can ask for it because the AUTHORITIES have enabled that route.
Save yourself. Melt away.
 
moon said:
Pray tell who puts capital punishment on the statute book.
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Politicians.

But they don't try, convict, or sentence anyone to prison or a death sentence. Nor are courts in the US tied into being forced to apply a death penalty to any case. It is just an option, and a reasonable one at that.
 
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