FACT CHECK: Islam already lives near ground zero

The fact is we're talking about Muslims in our country, and those women can drive or go out in public if they like.

For now they can, but radical Islamists are not going to be satisfied until America becomes "Sharia compliant" as Imam Rauf says.

I don't support any country stepping on anyone's rights, man or woman, but it's simplistic to imply this is only a Muslim problem.

They are the only ones who have declared war against us and wish to impose Sharia law on our people! You stupid fucktards will defend to the death, the right of some slut bitch to suck her baby down a tube and kill it, because she can't keep her whore-ass legs closed, but you won't lift a finger to help the millions of women who are being routinely treated like literal dogs! Why is that? Because you can't see it happening here? Because you don't believe it could happen here? Because you somehow think a Magic Fairy is going to intervene on your behalf and prevent it from happening here? If we, as a people, don't stand up to this and defeat it, what do you think is going to eventually happen? You think radical Muslims practicing a 5th century religion, are going to just get bored with it and quit? You think maybe someone like Obama can woo them with their charms and make them like us? Maybe you think if we're really really nice to them, and show them how "tolerant" we can be, that maybe they will cut us some slack and not want to impose Sharia on us? What the fuck do you dimwits believe?
 
The fact is we're talking about Muslims in our country, and those women can drive or go out in public if they like.

I don't support any country stepping on anyone's rights, man or woman, but it's simplistic to imply this is only a Muslim problem.

Yes, I notice them driving too.

And it sounds like you support any country stepping on anyone's rights to me.
 
I stand with those feminists in wanting women everywhere to have the same rights men have, and that includes here in the U.S. of A.

You say "should [feminists] just sit back, etc.". I get email from feminist organizations all the time, and what they (we) do is write letters or send donations to try and help other women around the world. It's all we can do from a distance.

But put the shoe on the other foot. What about those individuals in Muslim societies who want less American influence (read: loose morals, excessive violence, no religious beliefs) on their society. Now I'm not saying those words paint a true picture of America, just that people in more conservative, paternalistic cultures think it's true. Even some people from enlightened countries think our streets run with blood from gun violence.

I guess I'm saying that we don't get the true picture of other societies and they don't get it of America, because news isn't news unless it's bad. So we all (and I'm not excluding myself) make judgments based on the limited information we get from the media, and sometimes that's not enough to form an honest opinion of others.

I've read enough of some Muslim cultures to know women get sh*t on and while I am surely no feminist I sure as hell don't support that. I just spent ten minutes looking for an article this feminist writer for the SF Chronicle, Margot Magowan, wrote on calling out other feminists for not taking a stand for Muslim women and I can't find the damn thing.
 
Well we have a really good system of justice for that, with due process and everything! In countries ruled by Sharia, there is no system, just Sharia. You can't enter and appeal, you must accept the punishment dictated by the religious fanatics, usually stoning or dismemberment. Now granted, they don't have a lot of problems with most thugs, but they seem to have a little trouble prosecuting rapists. You see, under Sharia, there has to be at least 3 witnesses to the rape to convict, if there isn't, the woman who was raped is stoned to death for fornication. Sound like a lovely system to you? Well, it's what you are advocating, it's what you are supporting wholeheartedly here! It's what you, and the rest of your pinhead nitwit friends have jumped on the bandwagon to defend and protect! And whether you believe it or not, it's coming to America.

You're talking about practices that pre-dated Islam and Christianity. They were part of tradition, local custom and a paternalistic society. Those who continue the practices, like the Taliban, are just perverting religious teaching to further their own ends.
 
For now they can, but radical Islamists are not going to be satisfied until America becomes "Sharia compliant" as Imam Rauf says.



They are the only ones who have declared war against us and wish to impose Sharia law on our people! You stupid fucktards will defend to the death, the right of some slut bitch to suck her baby down a tube and kill it, because she can't keep her whore-ass legs closed, but you won't lift a finger to help the millions of women who are being routinely treated like literal dogs! Why is that? Because you can't see it happening here? Because you don't believe it could happen here? Because you somehow think a Magic Fairy is going to intervene on your behalf and prevent it from happening here? If we, as a people, don't stand up to this and defeat it, what do you think is going to eventually happen? You think radical Muslims practicing a 5th century religion, are going to just get bored with it and quit? You think maybe someone like Obama can woo them with their charms and make them like us? Maybe you think if we're really really nice to them, and show them how "tolerant" we can be, that maybe they will cut us some slack and not want to impose Sharia on us? What the fuck do you dimwits believe?

You really hate women, don't you. What made you so bitter?

"...the right of some slut bitch to suck her baby down a tube and kill it, because she can't keep her whore-ass legs closed...". Yeah, I guess she got pregnant by parthenogenesis.

I know what I believe but have my doubts about you. On one hand you're castigating Muslims indiscriminately, on the other hand you're complaining that Muslim women are treated like crap under Sharia law. If you hate Muslims so much, why do you care how the women are treated? They probably deserve it because "they can't keep their whore-ass legs closed".</sarcasm>

I sense some dissonance here.
 
You're talking about practices that pre-dated Islam and Christianity. They were part of tradition, local custom and a paternalistic society. Those who continue the practices, like the Taliban, are just perverting religious teaching to further their own ends.

No, I am talking about Sharia law, and what is currently practiced today in countries implementing Sharia law. Yeah, when I say "5th Century religion" that's what I am talking about! Stuff that, to most of us sane rational people, predated modern Christianity and Islam, things that BARBARIANS did to each other... that is what Sharia mandates. And the "further" of their own ends, is to implement this barbarism around the globe. They are on a mission from God to do that. These people are whacked out religious fanatics like you have never seen before in this country. You think Baptists are bad? Wait til you get a load of Wahhabi Muslims! Right now, all you have to worry with, is the occasional Jehovah's Witness or Mormon knocking on your door, wait until you're door is busted down and you are drug out into the street for a good stoning! Of course, then, it is going to be too late to help you, there is no one who can help you, because you've enabled them to destroy America.
 
You really hate women, don't you. What made you so bitter?

Nothing made me bitter, I love women. I respect respectable women.

"...the right of some slut bitch to suck her baby down a tube and kill it, because she can't keep her whore-ass legs closed...". Yeah, I guess she got pregnant by parthenogenesis.

Truth hurts sometimes, don't it?

I know what I believe but have my doubts about you.

Oh, I am well aware you have doubts about me, a person you know nothing about. That's what bigots do! They form an opinion of someone based on their own warped stereotypes and preconceived notions, and that's what you've done with me. So it's no doubt you have doubts about me!

On one hand you're castigating Muslims indiscriminately, on the other hand you're complaining that Muslim women are treated like crap under Sharia law.

No, on BOTH hands I am castigating Muslims and condemning them for treating women like dogs. YOU are claiming on one hand, to stand for women, and on the other hand, endorsing Islam.

If you hate Muslims so much, why do you care how the women are treated? They probably deserve it because "they can't keep their whore-ass legs closed".</sarcasm>I sense some dissonance here.

I don't really get what you're saying, it's becoming very confused. I don't hate Muslims, I don't hate women. I denounce Muslims treating their women like shit! I don't believe in treating women like shit! I don't believe women should be forced to walk three steps behind their husband, or cover their head in public! Those are ideologies YOU are willingly supporting, because for some whacked out bizarre reason, the Democrat Think Machine, decided it was politically advantageous to bash the right as religiously intolerant, and pick up the banner for Islam in the past week! My priorities are consistently in order, and always have been, it's YOU who is bouncing all over the board with what you condone and support, and what you don't.
 
I don't really get what you're saying, it's becoming very confused. I don't hate Muslims, I don't hate women. I denounce Muslims treating their women like shit! I don't believe in treating women like shit! I don't believe women should be forced to walk three steps behind their husband, or cover their head in public! Those are ideologies YOU are willingly supporting, because for some whacked out bizarre reason, the Democrat Think Machine, decided it was politically advantageous to bash the right as religiously intolerant, and pick up the banner for Islam in the past week! My priorities are consistently in order, and always have been, it's YOU who is bouncing all over the board with what you condone and support, and what you don't.

Rauf's wife has taken a leading role in this and she is not forced to cover her head. Fundamentalists of all religions are misogynistic, for instance, you.

http://www.asmasociety.org/about/b_dkhan.html


http://www.google.com/images?client...=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1600&bih=655
 
Rauf's wife has taken a leading role in this and she is not forced to cover her head.

The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.

Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart.

Like many Islamic practices, taqiyya was formed within the context of the culture of Arab tribalism, expansionary warfare, Bedouin raiding and inter-tribal conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, confound and divide 'the enemy’.
 
The word "Taqiyya" literally means: "Concealing, precaution, guarding.” It is employed in disguising one's beliefs, intentions, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions or strategies. In practical terms it is manifested as dissimulation, lying, deceiving, vexing and confounding with the intention of deflecting attention, foiling or pre-emptive blocking. It is currently employed in fending off and neutralising any criticism of Islam or Muslims.

Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a “religion of peace”. A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart.

Like many Islamic practices, taqiyya was formed within the context of the culture of Arab tribalism, expansionary warfare, Bedouin raiding and inter-tribal conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse, confound and divide 'the enemy’.

Yes, that's right it's all part of their evil plan. Muahahaha!!! Go hide behind your momma's skirt and stfu.
 
Yes, that's right it's all part of their evil plan. Muahahaha!!! Go hide behind your momma's skirt and stfu.

I didn't say it was "part of their evil plan" did I? Nope... didn't say that!

It IS a part of their religion and their spiritual belief, and has been, since the 7th century. Why would I need to hide behind my momma's skirt? I am not the least bit afraid, I already know what fate lies ahead, just waiting for it to all go down. And Stringy, I'll shut up when you bring your happy gay ass to Alabama and make me shut the fuck up. Until then, you're just going to have to deal with me... or you can put me on ignore, I don't care.
 
I didn't say it was "part of their evil plan" did I? Nope... didn't say that!

It IS a part of their religion and their spiritual belief, and has been, since the 7th century.

BS. You are distorting it and making it seem that any sign of moderation is just a disguise for Trojan horse fundamentalism. You are parroting hate mongering morons.

Why would I need to hide behind my momma's skirt?

Because you are a cowardly little bitch. Islam is not taking over shit, retard.
 
BS. You are distorting it and making it seem that any sign of moderation is just a disguise for Trojan horse fundamentalism. You are parroting hate mongering morons.

No Stringy, I am just giving you THE FACTS, as the thread title indicates. Look... the MODERATE MUSLIMS have come out in droves to condemn this idea! This man is claiming to be one thing, and is being something else. He claims this is for outreach, but it's offensive and insensitive to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11. In a way, we ALL lost someone on 9/11. This is a big deal for people, all people, Muslims included. There is no reasonable way to understand his intention for outreach is legitimate, given the circumstances, and given the fact he still hasn't budged on his commitment to build it anyway.

It would be like, if I walked up to you and slapped the dog shit (or whatever you're full of) out of you, and said; "Stringy, I come in peace!" Then I slap you silly on the other side of your goofy face, really hard... "and furthermore, Stringy, I think we should be adult enough to let bygones be bygones." Then, I slap your silly ass one more time, as I say; "I hereby extend this olive branch and outreach to you for unity!" ...One final slap!

Now, you're such a kinky fucker, you'd probably say something like; "Dixie, slap me some more!" But, most people wouldn't view that as a sincere gesture of outreach, and so will be the sentiment toward a trophy mosque at ground zero! There is no outreach being accomplished, only OUTRAGE!

Because you are a cowardly little bitch. Islam is not taking over shit, retard.

Well they're sworn to die trying. So the way I see it, we have two choices, we either kill them, or they are going to take over everything. You've shown no desire to kill them, you want to do everything in your power to aid and assist them, merely because those on the right want to kill them, and you can't stand being on the same side as the right, so you are going to be a stupid little quisling. Sitting here doing everything you can possibly think of, to defend and justify abject stupidity and absurd insanity.

I don't doubt for one second, that you fuckwits really don't think this is serious, that it's all a bunch of meaningless crap dreamed up by crazies, and there is no real threat. I am sure that's what you morons believe, because your actions attest to that. You couldn't maintain the utterly stupid views you maintain, if you clearly understood the threat and the danger it poses.

These people are radical Muslims, they aren't playing a game. This is for real, whether you want to face it or not. They have declared war on us, they intent to defeat us, and if people like you don't pull your koolaid-drenched head out of your ass, they probably will. I've prepared myself for that, I think it's coming, I have no faith whatsoever, that you people are ever going to wake up and smell the coffee on this. I firmly believe, a Jihadist is going to have to yank your Wii controller out of your hand before you understand. Until then, I really don't think some of you are going to get it. You are living some fucked up fantasy, where our way of life is guaranteed to last forever, and nothing is ever going to threaten it. Our things can't be taken, our rights can't be violated... but the reality is, YES THEY CAN!
 
FACT CHECK: Islam already lives near ground zero

WASHINGTON – A New York imam and his proposed mosque near ground zero are being demonized by political candidates — mostly Republicans — despite the fact that Islam is already very much a part of the World Trade Center neighborhood. And that Muslims pray inside the Pentagon, too, less than 80 feet from where terrorists attacked.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_go_ot/us_mosque_fact_check

that is all.


Hmmm.....How far exactly does the "hallowed ground" of ground zero extend?


Since this community center is like over two blocks from the former WTC - what exactly is the radius of "hallowed ground"?

Can any NeoCon mathematically quantify this for me? Is four blocks outside hallowed ground? 3 and a half blocks? 6.56389 blocks?

Gracias.
 
Originally Posted by Yurt
do you have a link to the sept. 11 dedication, because that speaks volumes....if true

other than that...how many churches are in NY? do you call them redundant? there is a correlation with the pentagon....a plane flew in there, why is it there is no issue with a muslims place to pray there?

so if a religion wants to build a church and its negative to most people....then that religion should not be able to build a church?


Sometimes misidentified as the "Pentagon Mosque," the non-denominational Pentagon Memorial Chapel maintained by the Pentagon Chaplain's Office is where department employees who practice Islam can meet to pray.

Located at the site where the hijacked American Airlines flight 77 struck the Defense Department headquarters, the chapel honors the memory of the 184 victims of the 9/11 attack.


Read more:


Plans are under way for a Muslim house of worship, topped by a 13-story cultural center with a swimming pool, in a building damaged by the fuselage of a jet flown by extremists into the World Trade Center.

The opening date shall live in infamy: Sept. 11, 2011. The 10th anniversary of the day a hole was punched in the city's heart.


Read more:

Also this morning:

A growing number of New York construction workers are vowing not to work on the mosque planned near Ground Zero.

Read more:
 
Hmmm.....How far exactly does the "hallowed ground" of ground zero extend?


Since this community center is like over two blocks from the former WTC - what exactly is the radius of "hallowed ground"?

Can any NeoCon mathematically quantify this for me? Is four blocks outside hallowed ground? 3 and a half blocks? 6.56389 blocks?

Gracias.

Well, since the building where the Mosque is going to be in was damaged by the Sept 11th attacks I'd qualify that as part of Ground Zero. To be clear I think they have the Constitutional right to build it and it's not a big issue to me but real sick of Liberal windbags talking about it being 2 blocks away when the building was actually damaged in the attacks. You don't think two jet airliners bringing down the 2 tallest buildings didn't damage stuff out 2 blocks away? Talk about shitty math.
 
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Krauthammer gets it right~~~

By Charles Krauthammer, Washington Post Writers Group
WASHINGTON --

A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).

When we speak of Ground Zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there -- and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized or misappropriated.

That's why Disney's early '90s proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition fearing vulgarization of the Civil War (and wiser than me; at the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture). It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place, it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Even New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near Ground Zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers "to show some special sensitivity to the situation." Yet, as columnist Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby inadvertently conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely, that Ground Zero is indeed unlike any other place and therefore unique criteria govern what can be done there.

Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.

But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say that the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Awlaki -- spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and one-time imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?

An al-Awlaki preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An al-Awlaki preaching at Ground Zero is a sacrilege.

Location matters. Especially this location. Ground Zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history -- perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.

Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi -- yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of good will would think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

Which makes you wonder about the good will behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. ... The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."

America is a free country where you can build whatever you want -- but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet local architectural codes, you cannot build at all.

These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred. No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz -- and no mosque at Ground Zero.

Build it anywhere but there.

The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.


Contact Charles Krauthammer at letters@charleskrauthammer.com.
 
"Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi"


Even this fox news whacko understands this point....!


HE does not understand the first amendment... but he does unerstand that Islam is not all evil.
 
"When we speak of Ground Zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there"

Muslims died there as well. They also fought for America in the 2 wars that followed.

Because guess what? They're Americans. America was attacked on 9/11; not American Christians exclusively, or American Jews exclusively, or American Muslims exclusively. Americans were attacked.

And Americans can build anything they want, as long as they get the proper permits for it.
 
"When we speak of Ground Zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there"

Muslims died there as well. They also fought for America in the 2 wars that followed.

Because guess what? They're Americans. America was attacked on 9/11; not American Christians exclusively, or American Jews exclusively, or American Muslims exclusively. Americans were attacked.

And Americans can build anything they want, as long as they get the proper permits for it.

And permits cannot be denied based on what religen you belong to.
 
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