"Don't go to college, go to a trade school"

T. A. Gardner said:
Seems to me since most universities have raised their tuition faster than inflation--way faster--and are awash in cash endowments and such, that we should end most student loan programs. That would force universities to cut their tuition to keep the number of students close to where they are so they can still make money.
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Well here's the thing...if your goal is to reign in the cost of tuition at private colleges, then the only solution is to make public colleges tuition free.

Then, the private schools will need to lower their tuition in order to compete for students with the public schools.

They're not gonna INCREASE tuition in order to attract candidates if public schools are offering free tuition...the private schools will have to innovate a way to stay relevant because reputation doesn't really mean that much anymore.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
You are mostly wrong here. Law school is not guarantee of a job and even not a guarantee you will end up in law.
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Again, your earning potential is substantially higher than someone with no degree at all.

And it also takes a bit of luck, but not as much as it takes for someone with a lesser degree or no degree at all.


2020 law school grads having harder time finding jobs, data shows
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I mean, 2020 was the start of the pandemic, and this article is more than a year out of date.


ure, not every plumber that goes into business for himself will succeed. The difference is he can always go back to being a journeymen plumber for somebody else.
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Right, but that means your earnings are capped or are stalled...and will probably be less than what it was before you left to start a business because you have to start at the bottom again.


Unlike lawyers where there is a glut of them competing for jobs, there is a serious shortage of plumbers.
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Except that the average union plumber wage (and you oppose unions, remember) is only about $57K a year...and that is skewed on the high end as you can see in the line chart. So really, most plumbers make far less than $57K a year.


Right now, the average for lawyers on salary is about $80,000.
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Mmmmm...you might want to recheck that source: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/lawyer/salary


As for business failures, that goes just as much for lawyers as it does for contractors, so that's a wash.
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Does it? Are you sure about that? Do you have statistics that show law practices failing at a rate of small businesses? Cuz I've rarely seen a law practice go bankrupt.
 
LV426 said:
People should be mad that their bosses aren't raising the wages of those who didn't have loans to forgive.

That's what you should be mad at.

But instead of holding your boss' feet to the fire, you're licking his boot.
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and now you're showing that you know jack shit about the job market...............jack shit. just stop talking already.

LV426 said:
That's not what the ACA did. Amazing that after 12 years, you still don't know a single fucking thing about it.
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i'm sorry, what was the 'penalty' part again? excuse me, TAX.............stop talking about shit you know nothing about.

LV426 said:
OK, but you also don't go around expecting to be fairly compensated for your work because you don't have a high opinion of it...so you're fucking things up for the rest of us by being complacent.

And you absolutely DID expect others to pay your debts, which is why you joined the military.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........i'm sure you'll just consider this 'anecdotal' because it's not professionally documented anywhere and is only based on real world experience, but here goes.............

Back around the late 90s, when IT certifications became all the rage and everybody and their dog was scrambling to become certified, I sat back and watched a circus develop. People who had zero business doing IT work, but were good college students, read and studied all the certification help books to take their tests and get certified. Then these dumbass individuals would go get a job based on having that certification.........................so many certified people got jobs to do things they had absolutely ZERO experience in, so they all still needed to be trained. It nosedived every IT positions salary EVERYWHERE. I sat next to and worked with people that were certified that were asking ME questions about how to do things on an NT4 server, asking questions of someone who wasn't certified but I KNEW HOW TO DO THE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so take your phony bullshit about your so called knowledge and shove it straight up your ass, because that's what your book knowledge is worth. absolute shit. I'm out here doing highly technical work with zero certifications and i'm doing it better than certified people because I taught myself how to do it. I didn't fake a certification and then have to get trained by the company that hired me to do a job I can't do. I'm getting paid what i'm worth and it's YOUR 'expert educated' fuckups causing all the salary damage, not me.
 
LV426 said:
Well here's the thing...if your goal is to reign in the cost of tuition at private colleges, then the only solution is to make public colleges tuition free.
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who would then pay for all those buildings, professors, administrators, tuitions................who??????
 
T. A. Gardner said:
This is completely short sighted. You are a plumber and have ambition. You become a plumbing contractor and open a business. It grows and you have dozens of plumbers and even more apprentices working for you. You become a millionaire. That's the ladder you move up on.

Unlike say a lawyer right out of law school, a journeyman plumber is guaranteed a job with a high starting salary. The plumber also has no massive student debt to pay off. With more experience, and maybe some picked college business courses, the plumber becomes a contractor and grows his company to make millions.
Meanwhile, the lawyer, being a nobody from a nothing special law school ends up a public defender or maybe a small-time lawyer doing stuff like injury and small claims cases and the like making an okay living.

There's plenty of room to move up in the skilled trades if you have ambition and are reasonably intelligent.
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Agree. Or, as stated previously, that plumber invests wisely because he/she has immediate income, and becomes a multi millionaire.

Granted, you address possibilities as opposed to norms, but the thread is basically addressing gross generalizations.

In the late '70s, I knew a kid who bought a trailer and a few mowers and was making six figures/year with winters off. I have a new neighbor who bought a $300,000.00 home last year, has more toys than you or I, and does landscaping/snow plowing/tree work.

I'm quite sure he didn't go to college.
 
BidenPresident said:
It is the source for this discussion, you brain dead asshole.
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Incorrect. Are you sure you graduated college?

You cited a study that examined how well certain demographics recovered after the pandemic. Is it a suprise that trillions in govt. handouts benefitted the wealthy?

Are you really trying to steer the discussion there?
 
Althea said:
Incorrect. Are you sure you graduated college?

You cited a study that examined how well certain demographics recovered after the pandemic. Is it a suprise that trillions in govt. handouts benefitted the wealthy?

Are you really trying to steer the discussion there?
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The chart that started the thread came from the FED study I posted the link to. If you're too fucking dumb to comprehend I do not care.
 
LV426 said:
I think a lot of people had that thought, I'm not sure you can claim that. ;)

But regardless, yes, public schools should be funded by taxes on the rich and corporations.

If your goal is to cut back the costs of college, then offering free tuition for public schools will force the private schools to lower theirs in order to compete for students.
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In many cases, housing/food costs as much or more than tuition. Not sure how that would work
 
LV426 said:
How will it do that vs. just forgiving the debt entirely?

The money has already been spent on the education, so at this point, it's just recouping a loan that can be discharged.

So if given the option to discharge the loan, moving it off everyone's books, why would you choose to insist someone pay the loan when they could use that money instead to buy a house?

No one has been able to articulate what the economic benefit is to having people pay $500/month in student loans. It's all emotional, or about someone's personal bias or subjective judgment.

As far as I'm concerned, almost everyone is too emotional to approach this subject in an intelligent way.

BIG PICTURE: Student debt forgiveness is an economic stimulus at just the right time.
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Then you are calling for 'free' education, which must address how that affects any economy
 
BidenPresident said:
The chart that started the thread came from the FED study I posted the link to. If you're too fucking dumb to comprehend I do not care.
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I would normally not give a damn about Altheas posts here, but he is exactly right and you are stupidly wrong............maybe YOU should learn to read better.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
You are mostly wrong here. Law school is not guarantee of a job and even not a guarantee you will end up in law.


https://www.dallasnews.com/business...as-law-grads-are-unemployed-or-underemployed/


https://www.abajournal.com/news/art...term-full-time-jobs-for-2020-law-school-grads

Sure, not every plumber that goes into business for himself will succeed. The difference is he can always go back to being a journeymen plumber for somebody else.

Unlike lawyers where there is a glut of them competing for jobs, there is a serious shortage of plumbers.

https://www.getonedesk.com/blog/plu...g 2021,increase by 5% over the next few years.


https://waterworkplumbing.com/qualified-plumber-job-shortage/


http://www.firstfairtradetownusa.org/2022/04/25/shortage-of-plumbers/

Right now, the average for lawyers on salary is about $80,000. The average for plumbers is about $57,000. On the other hand, a plumbing contractor makes about $73,000 on average so he's competitive with a lawyer for pay.
https://www.salary.com/research/salary/posting/plumbing-contractor-salary

As for business failures, that goes just as much for lawyers as it does for contractors, so that's a wash.
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Logical. I charge $50-$100 dollars an hour when I'm doing emergency plumbing work.
 
LV426 said:
Yeah, but we're talking about payments for those loans, and the fact that the average student loan payment is about $390/month, which is $4,600/year.

Now multiply that by 50M people, and you can see how much money is being steered away from the consumer economy by these student loans every year (about $234B or about a half point of GDP)
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I understand. But your entire premise relies on time as a factor for future success.
 
LV426 said:
Well here's the thing...if your goal is to reign in the cost of tuition at private colleges, then the only solution is to make public colleges tuition free.

Then, the private schools will need to lower their tuition in order to compete for students with the public schools.

They're not gonna INCREASE tuition in order to attract candidates if public schools are offering free tuition...the private schools will have to innovate a way to stay relevant because reputation doesn't really mean that much anymore.
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That's complex. Will there be a stark difference in pay to teachers/professors? Will the quality staff flock to the higher paying private schools?
 
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