"Don't go to college, go to a trade school"

[Althea]

All stats prove it. Including the survey we are referring to. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publ...-economic-well-being-us-households-202205.pdf

Incorrect.

And you cited a study that is based upon a huge Federal influx of cash into the economy. Monstrous.

And it went to the high earners at the expense of the middle class.

Personally, being a sought after tradesman, I made more money than ever while others were out of work during the pandemic.


My investments soared as well, but that was solely because the Fed pumped trillions into the market.

Remove the Fed. money from your equation and see what it looks like. And...that study is from well after the worst of Covid was past.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Maybe. Generalizations on either side of this debate produce nothing.

One side says all college is a waste, and the other says all college guarantees a better life.

Neither are correct. There is a list a mile long of useless college degrees with respect to earning potential.

I never thought I would ever find something to agree with you on..........I think Hell just froze over

 

[Althea]

list the legitimate arguments FOR student debt forgiveness

Because the govt. always hands huge sums of money to the wealthy. They always promise that it will trickle down. It never does.

$10,000 in debt forgiveness is a pittance that is well worth it. I don't even agree with it, but I can recognize the value.

 

[LV426]

and if they did that for FHA mortgages, we could do the same..........are you going to petition for that?

I'd be 100% behind forgiving FHA mortgages too, but we're talking student loans right now so let's stay on that subject.

Other than your hurt feelings, what is the economic argument against student debt forgiveness?

 

[Althea]

I agree as a statistical average lifetime earnings go up with more college

But statistical averages are an abstract mathematical concept which do not represent any one individual. There is a wide distribution in all the datasets.

It seems fair to say that your probability generally increases for higher lifetime earnings the more education you get.

Haven't finished the thread yet, but thus far my list of billionaires without a degree has been ignored.

 

[Althea]

So you take money from person A that person A earned and could be spending on his family. Then you give person A's money to person B who didn't earn it so he can spend it on things that he wants. You want to use the force of the gun to take money away from people that earned it and give it to people that did not earn it.. That may be legal but it isn't right. When a person buys a car they should pay for it themselves and not expect YOU to pay for it for them, right? Because if think YOU should be paying for someone else's car I have my eye on a new Corvette.

You just described every govt. bailout in history

 

[LV426]

Your flaw is comparing to the national average across the board.

How is that a flaw? It's the only measurement by which this can be made.

A law degree leaves you a pauper when compared to a hedge fund manager.

Maybe right out of law school, but certainly not over their lifetime of earnings.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

I'd be 100% behind forgiving FHA mortgages too, but we're talking student loans right now so let's stay on that subject.

Other than your hurt feelings, what is the economic argument against student debt forgiveness?

you've been told numerous times. that you refuse to see it is a sure sign of your obtuseness and ignorance.

 

[ExpressLane]

Undergraduate school is to broaden the vistas of your mind.

Graduate school is to begin the development of career skills.

If you can't support your kids until they're at least twenty-five, you couldn't afford to have kids.

There are plenty of talented engineers, accountants and nurses with Bachelor's degrees

 

[BidenPresident]

That's not the topic

Yes it is.

 

[Althea]

so, in fact, those people could have paid off their student loans, you just wanted to buy their votes by easing their self assumed debt. got it.

Correct.

That's what tax cuts do as well.

Why don't you complain then?

 

[ExpressLane]

You just described every govt. bailout in history

How well would you like it if GM did not pay back the money that the government loaned them a few years back?

 

[BidenPresident]

Incorrect.

And you cited a study that is based upon a huge Federal influx of cash into the economy. Monstrous.

And it went to the high earners at the expense of the middle class.

Personally, being a sought after tradesman, I made more money than ever while others were out of work during the pandemic.


My investments soared as well, but that was solely because the Fed pumped trillions into the market.

Remove the Fed. money from your equation and see what it looks like. And...that study is from well after the worst of Covid was past.

I don't care about your personal situation.

 

[Althea]

The reason Vo Tech degrees--such as they are, and usually either a certificate or associates--is because there are lots of schools out there teaching trades that sound cool but aren't in demand or pay poorly. Examples:

Boat and motorcycle mechanic-- low demand
Beauty and hair dressing-- low pay
Animal grooming-- low pay
Medical technicians-- highly repetitive work, like taking blood samples, with little room to move up
Graphic artist-- low pay, low demand
Culinary arts-- low pay

Etcetera...

Again. Both sides of this debate are cherry picking. Cypress put it best. There are extremes on both sides, and there is a lot of objective data necessary before staking a claim either way.

 

[cawacko]

I never thought I would ever find something to agree with you on..........I think Hell just froze over

Hahaha. It's amazing how polarizing this is. I'm speaking as one who is very pro college but I recognize that each person has their own individual path they can pursue and that it doesn't have to include college.

On the whole those with college degrees do earn more than those without. It's a big reason people should go to college. But at the same time when you look deeper into the numbers and include student debt, the delta often isn't that big.

Maybe I've missed it but I haven't seen a single person address that the debt relief does nothing to address the cost of college. In fact, it will likely only increase future costs. It's politically popular with a certain segment of voters, that's it.

 

[LV426]

I understand your position, but there are plenty of variables that make that plumber or electrician much better off than the lawyer.

Not on wages, which is really the only thing that matters.

I'm sure you can live a nice, modest life as a plumber; but if you have ambition and drive, that's not the area you'll want to build a career because there's isn't really any room for growth. Like, there's working for someone and owning your own business...that's it. There's no ladder to go up, no leadership position to aim for...and again, that's perfectly OK.

But if you have ambition, it's probably not OK.

You have a massive head start out of the gate, and your field puts you in a position to acquire houses at a severe discount because you just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

OK, but that's luck, and that's not in anyone's control.

You might have a massive head start out of the gate because you don't need to pay your dues like you have to in other areas, but your growth (personal, economic, fiscal) will stall out far sooner than the college graduate's.

By the time a lawyer is a partner, the plumber could be a real estate tycoon.

Well, only if things break for them that way, which it is almost assured that they won't because it's completely out of their control, whereas the lawyer does have significant control and far more opportunities and options to control their career trajectory.

With a plumber, it's work for someone else or work for yourself...there's no ladder to move up there, so there's less ambition...and that is perfectly OK for people with low ambition.

It's not a mindset that I have or would encourage, but it's certainly an option.

 

[LV426]

no, it's not even close to accurate. it's your delusional fantasy about shit that is false.

If it's not accurate then prove it.

It's time for you to put up or shut up.

 

[LV426]

And debt to go along with it.

Right, but debt that can be paid off faster because of the earning potential the degree gives.

Not everyone is doctorate material.

But everyone does participate in the consumer economy, which is only helped by debt forgiveness.

 

[LV426]

Apples to Oranges but the answer is YES. If it were paid back we would be 135 billion dollars less in debt.

So you think you're paying for the 1945 Marshall Plan today, even though that money was spent decades before you were born?

 

[Life is Golden]

No, your writing is emotional which makes it incoherent.

I'm a better writer than you, hands down.

English is clearly not your forte.