Didn't Conservatives staple teabags to their faces because of this very thing?

[LV426]

Sometimes they would tell me they have picked up their check.

No they wouldn't.

No way would a Financial Aid office divulge any level of student financial aid to a random professor.

STOP. BULLSHITTING. ME.

I can tell when you're bullshitting, Flash.

You have a very naive view of how the world works.

It seems to me that you live a very sheltered life where people accommodate your bullshit.

So when someone comes along like me that refuses to do so, you try to set yourself above them on a pedestal so you can appear more thoughtful than you actually are.

I've been in this game long enough to spot a lying sack of crap when I see one.

 

[Flash]

I've made it very clear on these boards that I do not accept anecdotal evidence, and that I am even reticent to using them myself because of how ineffective and unconvincing they are.

The problem with anecdotes is that they're filtered through bias; so you will never get a clean, fair, unbiased anecdote.

I've been taught to ignore anecdotes, and that they're a crutch used by people who don't have adequate source material to back themselves up.

I see it all over the fucking place on these boards. How many people claim to be "small business owners" or "veterans" or "married to an (insert minority group here)" or whose Obamacare premiums "skyrocketed by a bajillion percent"?

Enough's enough.

BS. If 1-3 students in every class never showed up, that is not a bias, it is a fact.

Look, more Pell Grant funding:

"In summer 2019, Pell Grant eligible students can receive up to 150% of their scheduled Pell award each year. What does this mean for you? If you were a Pell eligible student in fall 2018 and/or spring 2019, you may qualify for a Pell Grant for summer 2019"

I'm sure we will see debt go down and savings increase with additional federal money going to students.

 

[LV426]

You are willing to believe anything evil about the private sector but don't think government employees can be just as greedy

This isn't about the private sector or the public sector.

This is about tax cuts creating deficits that force cuts to spending, and those cuts to spending end up resulting in people dipping into their savings or home equity just to pay their bills, be they tuition or health care or housing or food assistance or heating assistance or....

 

[LV426]

And there is no way to verify your claims that tax cuts cause people to save less

The claims are laid before us in the empirical evidence.

Why did the personal savings rate decline and the household debt increase dramatically beginning almost immediately right after the Bush Tax Cut was passed?

You were given data that showed the decline in the growth of Medicaid spending.

You were given data that showed the freezing of Pell Grants spending.

You were given data that showed a dramatic increase in household debt beginning right after the Bush Tax Cuts.

You were given data that showed Mortgage Equity Withdrawals were what kept Bush the Dumber's economy afloat until it collapsed in 2007.

I can't help it if that data is too much for you to bear...but there's nothing inaccurate about what I said, nor is there anything inaccurate about the conclusions I've drawn from that data.

Conclusions you have been unable to refute or replace.

Heck, you cannot even answer the question as to why did the personal savings rate decline and the household debt increase despite the second-largest tax cut in history?

 

[Flash]

No they wouldn't.

No way would a Financial Aid office divulge any level of student financial aid to a random professor.

Not random. Friends I had known for many years.

You are so naive thinking these things never happen or students don't abuse Pell Grants or colleges don't find loopholes to re-enroll students so they can keep getting their grant and the college can increase its budget.

 

[LV426]

That are so many holes in that story it is not funny.

Oh yeah?

NAME ONE.

I dare you.

 

[LV426]

But the point is that you don't know if this is true but you are making the claim, anyway

It is true.

It's the conclusion any reasonable person would come to when presented with all the empirical evidence I've gracefully given you on this thread.

It is a fact that the personal savings rate plummeted more than any other time in the last 40 years beginning right after the Bush Tax Cuts.

It is a fact that the household debt rate skyrocketed more than any other time in the last 40 years beginning right after the Bush Tax Cuts.

It is a fact that Medicaid spending increases declined to rates below that of Clinton.

It is a fact that Pell Grant spending was frozen for four consecutive years.

It is a fact that health care costs increased an average of 6% each year of Bush the Dumber.

It is a fact that tuition costs increased an average of 3-4% each year of Bush the Dumber.

It is a fact that Clinton increased spending by 32% and produced a record budget surplus.

It is a fact that domestic spending under Bush the Dumber was largely flat, and that any increase in spending was done on the Defense side.

 

[LV426]

What does your chart show about Clinton's tax cuts or Reagan's tax increases?

What Clinton tax cuts?

You mean the Capital Gains Tax Cut?

Yeah, that thing was responsible for the dotcom bubble; proving again that tax cuts always suck ass.

Here's Why The Dot Com Bubble Began And Why It Popped
We infer from the findings in this study that the volatility left, after controlling for every known determinant, reflects the influence of the 1997 capital gains tax rate cut. Stock return volatility was substantially greater after 1997. Furthermore, firms most affected by the rate reduction showed the greatest change in volatility. Specifically, non-dividend paying firms had a greater increase in volatility than dividend-paying firms and firms with large unrealized capital losses experienced a greater increase in volatility than firms with small unrealized losses.
https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-the-dot-com-bubble-began-and-why-it-popped-2010-12


And what Reagan Tax Increases? You mean all the tax increases on the middle class? Those tax increases?

 

[LV426]

said, for example, if a student never attended I would call financial aid to check on them before I dropped them to make sure there were no unknown problems, they would sometimes tell me that the student was on a grant

Wait - "sometimes?"

That's new.

That's a goalpost shift, Flash.

Also, it's an anecdote that I have a hard time believing because I know how much Student Financial Aid departments protect confidentiality.

They won't just casually tell a professor on the phone that a student gets Pell Grants. If they did, then they're violating their student's confidentiality.

That's why I have a hard time believing this shit you're shoveling.

 

[LV426]

IHowever, with 32% of undergraduates on Pell Grants you know it is a lot of them

Ah, so you were making assumptions of your students, then.

Fact is, you had no idea who got Pell Grants and who didn't, and the Financial Aid Office would never tell you who did, even in passing, because of confidentiality.

So that begs the question; why do you feel compelled to make up bullshit to respond to the very factual pieces of evidence I provide you?

 

[LV426]

BS. If 1-3 students in every class never showed up, that is not a bias, it is a fact.

Right, but you don't know if those students got Pell Grants or not.

You tried to lie to me and pretend you did know, but it turns out you were just making assumptions of your students and embellishing the communication you had with the Financial Aid office.

 

[LV426]

"In summer 2019, Pell Grant eligible students can receive up to 150% of their scheduled Pell award each year. What does this mean for you? If you were a Pell eligible student in fall 2018 and/or spring 2019, you may qualify for a Pell Grant for summer 2019"

OK, and? What does this have to do with your claim, using purely anecdotal evidence, that Pell Grant scholars don't show up to class?

I'm sure we will see debt go down and savings increase with additional federal money going to students.

Yeah, we will. Because those students and parents won't have to borrow as much to cover the costs of education.

That's the whole fucking point.

Welcome to the conversation, 40+ posts later...

 

[LV426]

Not random. Friends I had known for many years.

Doesn't matter...and if they're sharing that confidential info with you, then they're being just as shitty as you're being by asking about it.

How would you like it if you bank decided to share your account information with me, simply because I asked for it?

You are so naive thinking these things never happen or students don't abuse Pell Grants or colleges don't find loopholes to re-enroll students so they can keep getting their grant and the college can increase its budget.

You are so warped in your thinking that you think that is the standard, not the exception.

And your thinking is so warped, and you lack all supporting evidence, because ultimately you're just leaning on a personal anecdote, filtered through the prism of your own shitty, inherent biases and prejudices.

 

[Flash]

Doesn't matter...and if they're sharing that confidential info with you, then they're being just as shitty as you're being by asking about it.

You are so warped in your thinking that you think that is the standard, not the exception.

I did not ask for their financial information. I asked if they were still enrolled and if they knew of any problems (such as being in the hospital, sick, etc.).

Of course it is the exception. I clearly said it was for those 1-3 students who never attended class or quit attending. Most of the students were coming to class and doing well. I was only trying to help those who might have a problem.

I would think you could figure out it is an exception when I mentioned 1-3 students but that wouldn't allow you to make wild, unfounded claims. Although it is the exception it is also widespread across the country. Certainly you are familiar with the North Carolina cheating scandal, the Nike scandal, or the recent college admissions scandal. They are all examples of the same type of problem. I guess those are just anecdotal, also, since I only read about them in the media--unlike the things I experienced firsthand.

 

[Flash]

OK, and? What does this have to do with your claim, using purely anecdotal evidence, that Pell Grant scholars don't show up to class?

The ones who never attend, attend infrequently, or fail the class are not scholars. Bad faith and manipulative of you to refer to them by that name. You are trying to picture them as something they are not.

 

[LV426]

I did not ask for their financial information. I asked if they were still enrolled and if they knew of any problems (such as being in the hospital, sick, etc.).

So I'm confused, then...what does this have to do with Pell Grant recipients not showing up for class, and thus providing you with the justification you need to continue freezing growth of that program?

 

[LV426]

I clearly said it was for those 1-3 students who never attended class or quit attending. Most of the students were coming to class and doing well. I was only trying to help those who might have a problem.

So I'm confused again because the only reason you invoked this was because you were trying to tie that into students who received Pell Grants.

I was inferring from your posts that you believed students who got Pell Grants were less likely to show up for class, thus proving the fraud and abuse claims in your argument against growing spending for programs like Pell Grants.

Was I inferring incorrectly? I don't think so...

 

[Flash]

OK, and? What does this have to do with your claim, using purely anecdotal evidence, that Pell Grant scholars don't show up to class?




Yeah, we will. Because those students and parents won't have to borrow as much to cover the costs of education.

That's the whole fucking point.

Welcome to the conversation, 40+ posts later...

I can't subject myself to that kind of anger and hatred for all 40+ posts that never seem to stick to the issues. It is not very productive to make posts and have you call me a liar when it is something to have absolutely no knowledge about.

 

[LV426]

I would think you could figure out it is an exception when I mentioned 1-3 students but that wouldn't allow you to make wild, unfounded claims. Although it is the exception it is also widespread across the country. Certainly you are familiar with the North Carolina cheating scandal, the Nike scandal, or the recent college admissions scandal. They are all examples of the same type of problem. I guess those are just anecdotal, also, since I only read about them in the media--unlike the things I experienced firsthand.

Here's the problem, Flash...

You tried to say that because you had student absences back when you allegedly were a professor, that you could extrapolate those absences and apply them to students who received Pell Grants, implying that students who get Pell Grants are less likely to show up and complete a class than those who don't.

You were making that argument because in your mind, Pell Grants are so rife with abuse and fraud that it's imperative we cut that spending because:

a) you say it creates deficits, even though spending was frozen on Pell Grants as Bush ran record deficits

and

b) the program is so rife with fraud and abuse that it's common practice for students who get Pell Grants to skip class.

And you "verified" that by invoking an anecdote where you laughably claimed that the Financial Aid office at whatever school you taught at told you that they "picked up a check" or whatever, when no Financial Aid office would ever break any student's confidentiality like that, particularly with their professor because of the obvious conflicts of interest that arise.

That's unethical on so many levels that it borders on the absurd.

 

[LV426]

Although it is the exception it is also widespread across the country.

LOL!

Cognitive dissonance.

"It's an exception except that it's widespread".

So it's not an exception, then.

Also, this whole story of yours is suspect because of the obvious ethical problems that arose from how you told it; from violating your student's confidentiality, to making assumptions of them, to bullshitting me.

Enough. Stop.