Did Hitler gain power by banning guns?

[Damocles]

This is the style of argument Damo describes as "if I say it it then it is real".

Not that I disagree.

Not really, each of my points is verifiable with a simple search. As I said in a preceding post a simple search turned up this:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469

which underlines the historical accuracy of what I wrote, (when the laws were passed, etc.) while the personal history (the behavior) came from interviews I conducted. In this subject I am very knowledgeable.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Really?

List 'em, troll.

are you really this ignorant of history \\\legiontroll/// ?

how sad

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

I doubt it, but here:

In 1945 General Eisenhower ordered all privately owned firearms in the American occupation zone of Germany confiscated, and Germans were required to hand in their shotguns and rifles as well as any handguns which had not already been stolen. In the Soviet occupation zone German civilians were summarily shot if they were found in possession of even a single cartridge.


http://www.archive.org/stream/GunControlInGermany1928-1945/MicrosoftWord-Document1_djvu.txt


I look forward to your attack on the source.

Why would I attack it? If anything I should be glad to see this, as it would coincide with prior arguments about the American government willing to confiscate arms from otherwise peaceful citizens. Thanks for proving previously held assertions.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Why would I attack it? If anything I should be glad to see this, as it would coincide with prior arguments about the American government willing to confiscate arms from otherwise peaceful citizens. Thanks for proving previously held assertions.

Your ignorance of WWII and post-war events is appalling.


Are you contending that General Eisenhower should have let the German people retain their firearms in view of the widely-proclaimed Nazi "Werewolf" program?

Are you saying that conquered citizens are entitled to second amendment protections?

Explain, please.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

are you really this ignorant of history \\\legiontroll/// ? how sad

How sad that you are blind to your self-exposure of your own inability to debate. Instead you snipe with off-topic attacks and throw out claims that you apparently are unable to prove.

Grow up, will you?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

How sad that you are blind to your self-exposure of your own inability to debate. Instead you snipe with off-topic attacks and throw out claims that you apparently are unable to prove.

Grow up, will you?

how was it off topic? it is about hitler and power. do you really think you're one to talk about off topic? you change topics all the time with your cut and paste troll nonsense.

what i said is true. you are sorely ignorant of history.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

You do know that Warsaw is not in Germany, and the Jews in those ghettos were not Germans, at least I suspect you do. You are being disingenuous. Anyway, just searching some of my basic points I came up with this: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005469
As for what I said about the German Jews abiding by the law, that came from personal interviews with Holocaust survivors. We had an event each year in the church I grew up in called "Israel Awareness Day" I, as a Jr. High kid, headed up the art projects for the Holocaust memorial rooms. (We recreated some amazing things). To get as much accuracy as possible I spoke with many survivors. I did this until I entered the military at 17, so about 4 years worth of study with a strong interest in accuracy. The reactions I received from the survivors that visited my area of the displays was nothing short of inspiring. The terrible things that were done there are something that should never be forgotten.

I certainly know where Warsaw is. I didn't say it was in Germany, did I?


Your attempt at misdirection and appeal to authority are noted.


You, on the other hand, claimed this:

There are many on the "right" who believe that Hitler banned guns after gaining power. He did, but only for the targeted minority groups. It was relatively easy to confiscate weapons from people who were in ghettos, and those who weren't yet were trying desperately to show they were "good citizens" and almost wholesale volunteered their weapons.

Since you also said there were no ghettos in Germany, it's obvious I wasn't saying Warsaw was a German ghetto. But you knew that, didn't you?


Are you saying the Jews in Warsaw at the time of the uprising volunteered their weapons, and the Germans found disarming them relatively easy?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising


Your anecdotal evidence, while interesting, is hardly conclusive, unless you can supply peer-reviewed historical accounts.


Apparently one of the "amazing things" you "recreated" is a theory you haven't proven.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

how was it off topic? it is about hitler and power. do you really think you're one to talk about off topic? you change topics all the time with your cut and paste troll nonsense. what i said is true. you are sorely ignorant of history.

What you said was this, troll:

numerous factors played a role in hitler's rise to power. he was able to remain in power with programs like AttackWatch

That's an attempt to compare Hitler to Obama, which makes your claim that it was about "Hitler and power" a lie.


Obama is already in power, and didn't ban guns to get there. Neither did Hitler, it appears, and there the similiarities end.


Furthermore, in keeping with your habitual thread-derailing, you failed to note that subject of the thread is whether or not Hitler used a ban on guns to gain power.


Are you claiming that history will show that Hitler used programs like Attackwatch to gain power?


If so, list 'em.


If not, please stop spamming the board with pathetic attempts to self-moderate my threads.

 

[Rune]

Not really, each of my points is verifiable with a simple search.

How is that different than when I say it?

 

[Damocles]

I certainly know where Warsaw is. I didn't say it was in Germany, did I?

Yet you used it as an "example" of how German Jews reacted?

Several things were wrong with it. They were not German, it wasn't in Germany, and it was in an actual Ghetto, which I informed you did not exist in Germany proper.

Your attempt at misdirection and appeal to authority are noted.

Right, a link to a website freely given along with knowledge gained through actual study.

You, on the other hand, claimed this:





Since you also said there were no ghettos in Germany, it's obvious I wasn't saying Warsaw was a German ghetto. But you knew that, didn't you?

I also informed you why I said that, and described what happened.

Are you saying the Jews in Warsaw at the time of the uprising volunteered their weapons, and the Germans found disarming them relatively easy?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

I am saying that Jews in Warsaw have nothing to do with Jews in Germany before the war when the law to surrender weapons was passed.

Your anecdotal evidence, while interesting, is hardly conclusive, unless you can supply peer-reviewed historical accounts.

Right, the link I found from a historical society was "anecdotal" evidence.

Apparently one of the "amazing things" you "recreated" is a theory you haven't proven.

That depends on whether you believe reports from the people who were there or not. That one portion of my post is a personal report from people who lived the experience. The rest is verifiable facts. Including when they passed the law, the fact that they had previous to confiscation from the Jews forced them to register their weapons making it easier, the fact that they were forced to live in the "Jew Houses"... Even including that the ghettos seen in other places were not in Germany, just like the death camps were also not in Germany, the leadership (the Nazis) believed that it was "too far" and the Germans wouldn't stand for these things....

Anyway, how Jews reacted in Germany was entirely different than how Jews reacted in nations that were taken by the German military, they had no feeling of "citizenship" as did the Jews in Germany.

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

What you said was this, troll:






That's an attempt to compare Hitler to Obama, which makes your claim that it was about "Hitler and power" a lie.


Obama is already in power, and didn't ban guns to get there. Neither did Hitler, it appears, and there the similiarities end.


Furthermore, in keeping with your habitual thread-derailing, you failed to note that subject of the thread is whether or not Hitler used a ban on guns to gain power.


Are you claiming that history will show that Hitler used programs like Attackwatch to gain power?


If so, list 'em.


If not, please stop spamming the board with pathetic attempts to self-moderate my threads.

poor legion troll, ignorant of history and unwilling to learn

its cute how you take my comments to you and copy them and attempt to give them back to me. you're an unoriginal boring troll that doesn't have an original thought in your head.

 

[Rune]

ignorant of history and unwilling to learn

its cute how you take my comments to you and copy them and attempt to give them back to me. you're an unoriginal boring troll that doesn't have an original thought in your head.

Thanks for your life history yurt, and yes you are boring and unoriginal, but what does this have to do with the thread topic?

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Yet you used it as an "example" of how German Jews reacted?

I did? How so? Certainly that was not my intent. I showed how your statement that Jews were eager to volunteer their arms was not true, and gave an example. There are others. Perhaps you meant only that "Jews in Germany" were eager to volunteer their arms. If, so, I misunderstood you.

As for your teenaged conversations with Holocaust survivors, which is the anecdotal evidence, it's fascinating but hardly conclusive.

 

[Damocles]

I did? How so? Certainly that was not my intent. I showed how your statement that Jews were eager to volunteer their arms was not true, and gave an example. There are others. Perhaps you meant only that "Jews in Germany" were eager to volunteer their arms. If, so, I misunderstood you.

As for your teenaged conversations with Holocaust survivors, which is the anecdotal evidence, it's fascinating but hardly conclusive.

My statement was about German Jews, not about Warsaw Jews. Again, you attempt to force a square peg into a round hole.

As it stands my personal conversations with Holocaust survivors have as much credence as any other report of conversations with people who lived the history. It depends on what you believe of me I guess.

You choose not to believe those personal accounts, I'm good with that and if I have more time I'll search out some articles from people who asked the same questions I did and probably of the same people.

The factual information in my historical account was 100% accurate, as backed up by the link I gave, and that was off the top of my head... That's not bad. You choose to "disbelieve" a report from me I have no power over that, but what I have said stands the test of accuracy.

Shoot, if you spoke German you could hear the announcements about those regulations in the link I provided above... (you can still hear them, but you won't understand the language so it is a waste).

And, one more time, you tried to use that Warsaw link to "prove" that Jews in Germany did not give up their weapons, however that is that square peg I mentioned earlier, Jews in Ghettos in Warsaw are not equivalent to Jews who thought of themselves as Germans and were citizens in Germany...

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

My statement was about German Jews, not about Warsaw Jews. Again, you attempt to force a square peg into a round hole.

That was not clear to me; hence the misunderstanding.

 

[Damocles]

That was not clear to me; hence the misunderstanding.

So the part about "Jews in Germany" didn't hit you as me talking about Jews in Germany, so you provided a link to Warsaw? I think it was clear and you were either excited about "finding" something that you incorrectly thought may have proved me wrong or just disingenuous about what I had stated. I believe the latter.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

So the part about "Jews in Germany" didn't hit you as me talking about Jews in Germany, so you provided a link to Warsaw? I think it was clear and you were either excited about "finding" something that you incorrectly thought may have proved me wrong or just disingenuous about what I had stated. I believe the latter.

Nope, because as you correctly stated, there were no ghettos per se in Germany.

There are many on the "right" who believe that Hitler banned guns after gaining power. He did, but only for the targeted minority groups. It was relatively easy to confiscate weapons from people who were in ghettos, and those who weren't yet were trying desperately to show they were "good citizens" and almost wholesale volunteered their weapons.

Since you referenced 'ghettos', I thought you meant outside Germany.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Your ignorance of WWII and post-war events is appalling.


Are you contending that General Eisenhower should have let the German people retain their firearms in view of the widely-proclaimed Nazi "Werewolf" program?

Are you saying that conquered citizens are entitled to second amendment protections?

Explain, please.

Yes, I am saying that. That doesn't mean I don't understand the reasoning behind such measures, only that from my moral view point they are wrong. And for the most point they are useless anyways.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Yes, I am saying that. That doesn't mean I don't understand the reasoning behind such measures, only that from my moral view point they are wrong. And for the most point they are useless anyways.

Bullshit.


The Allies did some horrible shit to the conquered Axis, but given what they knew at the time, I'd have to say it was proper in light of the enormity of the situation.

Educate yourself:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany#Occupation_policy



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Bullshit.


The Allies did some horrible shit to the conquered Axis, but given what they knew at the time, I'd have to say it was proper in light of the enormity of the situation.

Educate yourself:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Germany#Occupation_policy



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

And I would disagree with that. I disagree with the occupation as well, and because of that, were there no occupation, there would be no need to disarm the people.