Could the USA erupt like Egypt is right now?

[Topspin]

That is correct.



Ohhhh so the American people should pay for thei5r malpractice insurance and overpriced service because their education system is overpriced also.(Note sarcasm). Gotcha!



Ohhhhhh 11 years in training you say? Then I guess that justifies them exploiting medical illnesses and misfortunes by charging outrageous fees. Thank you for setting me straight.(again note sarcasm).

And I thought Doctors were in it to save lives and because they like to help people. I guess the Cuban doctors must have missed the memo too.(note sarcasm).

UMmm that is not how tax brackets work, and this is not about paying taxes. its about passing down expenses.

don't bother backing any of that with facts, you have NONE.

 

[apple0154]

Do you believe that for some to be rich there must be many who are poor?

Absolutely, assuming "rich" refers to monetary value. (Years ago, a person asked my Dad if he was wealthy. My dad replied, "Yes, I am healthy. I have a beautiful wife. My children are doing well and I have a job I like.")

Rich is relative to the people one deals with. A person earning $50,000 US in China or India would be considered wealthy due to most others earning considerably less. They can afford to purchase the products and services of others.

 

[Topspin]

Bullshit? You call a business man who passes down all his expenses to the consumer not living off the backs of the consumer?






No lets punish the poor with over priced medical bills. After all they were not rich enough to afford 11 years in university(note major sarcasm.)

Dont talk to me about double standards. America is a queen of double standards.

Spare me the drama. If people are becoming doctors so they can get rich, they shouldn't become doctors.




Exactly. People do not go see a doctor for minor problems buecause they cannot afford to see thier doctors and next thing you know it develops into something serious. Here in Canada, EVERYONE can see the doctor anytime, and catch illnesses at an early stage. And the doctors are not payed an arm and a leg to do it.

Yes, I have been promoting healthy lifestyles in America to bring down health care insurance and make the transition to a Universal health care system more easier.





If that is the case? Why do they not support a universal health care system, which would cause their pay to decrease? Simply because many are in it for profit. How many doctors were threatening to quit if a Universal health care came to America?

Listen. The doctors in Canada makea lot less then American doctors, yet they are still paid very well. My doctor is always on vacation and only works 4 days a week!






Seems in America? The government is taking money(taxes) from the tax payer and giving it to Corporations, via huge tax exemptions(and bailouts). Therefore they are NOT paying their fair share.

Dont get me started on taxes. Lets stay on subject.

I'm with you on the doctors, you've left out the answer. Increase access to the golden goose.

 

[Topspin]

Huh? What is all this garbage you speak?

A socialist business wouldn't have to pass down anything to the consumer. There wouldn't be middle men eating at every aspect of the Business. Transportation, fuel, insurance, mortgage, interest, advertizing and everything else associated with it. Basically all people taking a piece of the pie without working for it that gets passed down to the consumer. That is why a product that costs $1 ends up costing $10 by the time everyone gets their piece of the pie.

I'm pissed because I have to pay $9 extra on everything I buy!

If at least housing(my biggest pet peeve) was cheaper then people would have a lot more money to spend.

They sell anything they get their hands on and try to sell it for as much as they can. Depending on the sucker.






Who says they are in debt? Most are from wealthy families.





Sorry but the numbers do not agree with you.






What is the number of working people in America? There are currently 47+ million people in America without health Insurance and its growing rapidly with premiums sky rocketing. And many that have insurance have very poor insurance. So your numbers can be deceiving.








I got into this debate on another board and proved that the notion that the rich pay the majority of taxes is in fact a lie. The middle class pay the majority. Rich people have tax deductions for everything.

Who was that famous wealthy new yorker(The lady) That said paying taxes is for poor people?

Though that is another subject.

Nothing ever said student with one or two economics and history courses like this on junior.

 

[Topspin]

And oh, we all know your not a business major. History?

 

[wiseones2cents]

Have you seen the number of new products that you are exposed to on tv, radio, and the internet? Are they all from big corporations? Are they all local? Advertising benefits those selling products.

The ones getting the most exposure are from TV and are from big corporations. It would be difficult to compete with them. McDonalds is a prime example of how advertising really works. There are not many corporations who advertise as much as McDonalds.

Thanks for that bit of trivia, but it is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. The radio shows, and therefore the advertising, was created and grown by businessmen.

No one is forced to use technology. The Amish do quite well without it. Anyone who wishes to can avoid all but the most basic technology. It is that people want it that makes it valuable.

No the west used a way to profit from the technology which is the norm.

With all the advancements in technology, you would think they would be able to end poverty/famine, instead famine increases, with all this drought resistant genetic seeds, machinery, and high crop yield technology, yet the price of food increases. Why?

Overcharge? If I make widgets, and it costs me $5 per widget to make them, and one guy will buy all I can make for $7 and another will buy all I can make for $12, why would I sell for $7? If the item is overpriced, it won't sell. And other than the most basic survival needs, most things sold are wants and not needs.

Sometimes I will buy something and pay $50, a few weeks later I will see the same product for $10, but if I go to the less populated areas(way up north) I will see the thing p[riced at $100. That is the problem with capitalism.

Plus they say capitalism is competition and blah blah blah, though alot of companies are told how much to sell the item for by the suppliers and if they supplier finds out you are under charging, you get cut off.

Actuallly it is all the NEEDS(Necessity) things I have a problem with. Homes, cars, ENERGY, food and health care, which seem to be taking the bulk of our pay checks.

I keep hearing that from people who obviously dislike us. But I see a very different bit of evidence in our society.

That is B.S.. I hear it from many Americans on many US message boards.The only people that still have access to the American dream are the prostitutes(The smart ones) and the drug dealers. Basically the people making illegal profit.

How many bankruptcies have we been witnessing over the last decade? Your in denial.

Because you know lots of them and they all have connections to organized crime? LMAO!! That may be the weakest argument I have ever seen on here. But, by that same logic, since you know lots of rich people connected to organized crime, then you are also connected to it.

Actually I do know many people in organized crime. I know how they operate, and know they are running the show.

Lets talk about Enron. How many other companies in America are cooking the books? I think their are very few honest book keepers. If they were, they would be out of a job.

How many people can you name in the last decade that has started a successful business and not connected to the elites(who are organized criminals), and dirty money?

 

[wiseones2cents]

So transportation, fuel, insurance, mortgage, interest, and advertising are all adding to the price without working for it? Are you that naive?

That is correct. The people at the top of all these business, the investors, stock holders and everyone else making money doing absolutely NOTHING!

Well they are basically gambling. And if they lose their life savings, some one will step in to fill the gap. All at the expense of the consumer.

In order to transport goods, someone has to buy the vehicle, be trained to drive, pay for the maintenance of the vehicle, and buy fuel. None of that should cost at all?

Insurance, mortgage and interest are all because someone else's money is used. You want to use their money and do it for free?

You want people to have more money to spend, but on what?

This is where socialism(at least in my sense of the world comes in). No middle men.

Your asking me what I want people to spend extra income on? Are you serious??ANYTHING THEY WANT!

http://www.medrounds.org/medical-news/2009/01/how-much-do-doctors-and-physicians-make.html

The average Dr comes out $140,000 in debt.

This says NOTHING about thew average doctor coming out in debt, this states that it costs about $140,000 to become a doctor. Your spinning.

One thing I have learned, tracking down info on the net. The medical lobbies spread lots of miss information. Dont you watch the soap operas?LOL It is always the sons and daughters of the wealthy that become doctors.

The facts are that the Medical education is TOO HIGH. And the result is we see less doctors in their field because most people are discouraged by the cost(Though not the rich).

I've been promoting, reduced costs for Medical students, which will equate to more doctors, more competition and lower prices.

They are already working on it.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/ld-student-debt.pdf

What numbers?

Your numbers. They did a survey and over 45% of doctors said they would quit or retire(and this is not even Universal Health care). I also remember hearing a certain thing in regards to Gov trying to do something about the rising cost of medi-care.

Doctor's Will Quit if Obamacare Passes


P.S. Now that I have more time? I will really begin to debate more seriously on this board.

 

[wiseones2cents]

don't bother backing any of that with facts, you have NONE.

I assure you. I know enough about economics to recognize an unjust system.

If your eating at the pig troughs, then obviously, the American system is the way to go. If you are not and support it? You are either stupid, or have swallowed all the hype(And your pride).

What facts do you want me to back up? That doctors pass down their expenses to us? Let me know and I will provide.

 

[DamnYankee]

My understanding of modern economic is vast. And I recognize the thievery.

These two sentences are incompatible. In a free market, the consumer will simply find another supplier who is not a thief.

 

[DamnYankee]

Do you think using slave labor created by authoritarian abusive states is an innovation?

 

[Topspin]

I assure you. I know enough about economics to recognize an unjust system.

If your eating at the pig troughs, then obviously, the American system is the way to go. If you are not and support it? You are either stupid, or have swallowed all the hype(And your pride).

What facts do you want me to back up? That doctors pass down their expenses to us? Let me know and I will provide.

you don't know dick about economics, I'm betting your a student or recently graduated teacher. That's your largest pool of crybabies "our economy isn't fair". LOFL

 

[wiseones2cents]

And oh, we all know your not a business major. History?

Dont kid yourself. I know enough about economics to know that this economic system is an illusion, perpetuated by the people that profit from it.

And all these people that are taught economic finance, are taught how to profit from it also, therefore they support it also.

Here are a few quotes from someone who does understand the economic System of America.

“By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.”

John Maynard Keynes

My Comment: Though its not government that is confiscating the wealth. It is the Elites/ the creditors.

"By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people,
and not one man in a million will detect the theft." — John Maynard Keynes (the father of 'Keynesian Economics' which our nation now endures) in his book "THE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES
OF THE PEACE" (1920).

"Should government refrain from regulation (taxation), the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud can no longer be concealed." — John Maynard Keynes, "Consequences of Peace."

“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.”

John Maynard Keynes quote

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

And History? I may not be a professional historian though I am surely putting the pieces together.

 

[WinterBorn]

That is correct. The people at the top of all these business, the investors, stock holders and everyone else making money doing absolutely NOTHING!

They are letting someone else risk their money. That should be free? Investors and stockholders are often just regular people with retirement accounts, not some schmuck born with a silver spoon in his mouth. You want businesses (especially small businesses) to be able to use their hard earned money to build a new business, but not pay anything in interest?

Yeah, Topper is right about your knowledge of economics.

This says NOTHING about thew average doctor coming out in debt, this states that it costs about $140,000 to become a doctor. Your spinning.

You obviously didn't read the article. From the link: "In order to make the high salary, doctors make a huge financial investment (e.g., an average of $140,000 in school debt vs. the average debt of $20,000 for college graduates)" So the article did, in fact, state that Drs have an average of $140k in debt. Which blows your "only rich people go to medical school" theory out of the water.




Your ideas about socialism sound great on paper, but fail miserably in real life. What is the incentive to achieve? Why work hard and produce when you get the same for being lazy??

 

[Jarod]

If Obama/Bush (delete as applicable) was in power for 30 years...Yes.

And unemployment was at 30%.

 

[wiseones2cents]

They are letting someone else risk their money. That should be free? Investors and stockholders are often just regular people with retirement accounts, not some schmuck born with a silver spoon in his mouth. You want businesses (especially small businesses) to be able to use their hard earned money to build a new business, but not pay anything in interest?

Yeah, Topper is right about your knowledge of economics.



You obviously didn't read the article. From the link: "In order to make the high salary, doctors make a huge financial investment (e.g., an average of $140,000 in school debt vs. the average debt of $20,000 for college graduates)" So the article did, in fact, state that Drs have an average of $140k in debt. Which blows your "only rich people go to medical school" theory out of the water.




Your ideas about socialism sound great on paper, but fail miserably in real life. What is the incentive to achieve? Why work hard and produce when you get the same for being lazy??

pfffttttt. Your reply has been reduced to drivel.

My knowledge of economics is vast.

You missed the entire point. It is clear you are doing pretty good in the system of things. Probably made your money in the past when things were still manageable(when they were racking up the deficit). So your an upper middle class(I think they were called Nobles in the old days), and were hated by the people. For good reason.

I did read the article. It basically said the average cost for medical school was about 140,000. It stated nothing about most medical doctors finishing school in debt. I wonder how many people drop out of medical college because they cannot afford it? What happens to the debt they accumulated?

I know a person that had to take a few years off to work, to continue his education(He's going to be a lawyer).

Sorry, but the article does not say what you want it to say. My article painted a much better picture of the situation and how most people are discouraged by high tuitions to enter the medical profession.

 

[WinterBorn]

pfffttttt. Your reply has been reduced to drivel.

My knowledge of economics is vast.

You missed the entire point. It is clear you are doing pretty good in the system of things. Probably made your money in the past when things were still manageable(when they were racking up the deficit). So your an upper middle class(I think they were called Nobles in the old days), and were hated by the people. For good reason.

I did read the article. It basically said the average cost for medical school was about 140,000. It stated nothing about most medical doctors finishing school in debt. I wonder how many people drop out of medical college because they cannot afford it? What happens to the debt they accumulated?

I know a person that had to take a few years off to work, to continue his education(He's going to be a lawyer).

Sorry, but the article does not say what you want it to say. My article painted a much better picture of the situation and how most people are discouraged by high tuitions to enter the medical profession.

Maybe I was typing too fast for you to keep up. Here is a quote copied directly from the article: "e.g., an average of $140,000 in school debt vs. the average debt of $20,000 for college graduates"

A Noble? lol Ok, that works for me. I am making more now than ever. I work in an industry that cycles up and down, and is worse when the economy is in the tank. But things have been picking up for the last year. I am the son of the son of a dirt poor farmer. No silver spoons in our mouths, but my siblings and I achieved success thru education and effort. Please don't try and pigeonhole me or insult me when you little or nothing about me.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Maybe I was typing too fast for you to keep up. Here is a quote copied directly from the article: "e.g., an average of $140,000 in school debt vs. the average debt of $20,000 for college graduates"

A Noble? lol Ok, that works for me. I am making more now than ever. I work in an industry that cycles up and down, and is worse when the economy is in the tank. But things have been picking up for the last year. I am the son of the son of a dirt poor farmer. No silver spoons in our mouths, but my siblings and I achieved success thru education and effort. Please don't try and pigeonhole me or insult me when you little or nothing about me.

SHOW ME WHERE THAT ARTICLE SPECIFICALLY STATES MOST DOCTORS FINISH MEDICAL SCHOOL WITH 140,000 in debt.

It just states that is how much debt the average person would incure. The thing is, that most average people DO NOT enter the medical field.

HA. Just as I thought. Making more then ever(Translation: I'm eating at the capitalist pig trough).

Now get ready for the rug to be pulled from under you. When you are kicked out of the pig feeding. We will see how much you like the capitalist system.

I reread it and didn't see any insults(must be your paranoia/or guilt).

 

[Topspin]

Dont kid yourself. I know enough about economics to know that this economic system is an illusion, perpetuated by the people that profit from it.

And all these people that are taught economic finance, are taught how to profit from it also, therefore they support it also.

Here are a few quotes from someone who does understand the economic System of America.

“By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.”

John Maynard Keynes

My Comment: Though its not government that is confiscating the wealth. It is the Elites/ the creditors.

"By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people,
and not one man in a million will detect the theft." — John Maynard Keynes (the father of 'Keynesian Economics' which our nation now endures) in his book "THE ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES
OF THE PEACE" (1920).

"Should government refrain from regulation (taxation), the worthlessness of the money becomes apparent and the fraud can no longer be concealed." — John Maynard Keynes, "Consequences of Peace."

“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.”

John Maynard Keynes quote

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

And History? I may not be a professional historian though I am surely putting the pieces together.

your a fucking troll, your extent of economics knowledge is crying and cutting and pasting non relevent quotes from economist.

 

[Topspin]

Far more people aren't allowed into the Union Frat called the AMA than who can't afford it. While I agree with you med school is very high, that is the only point you made that wasn't giberish.

 

[WinterBorn]

SHOW ME WHERE THAT ARTICLE SPECIFICALLY STATES MOST DOCTORS FINISH MEDICAL SCHOOL WITH 140,000 in debt.

It just states that is how much debt the average person would incure. The thing is, that most average people DO NOT enter the medical field.

HA. Just as I thought. Making more then ever(Translation: I'm eating at the capitalist pig trough).

Now get ready for the rug to be pulled from under you. When you are kicked out of the pig feeding. We will see how much you like the capitalist system.

I reread it and didn't see any insults(must be your paranoia/or guilt).

The article states "In order to make the high salary, doctors make a huge financial investment (e.g., an average of $140,000 in school debt vs. the average debt of $20,000 for college graduates),..." Is there anything to make you think that average is not for all who graduate medical school??

It does not state how much debt the average person would incur, it states how much the average debt med school graduates have, as opposed to college graduates.

"It just states that is how much debt the average person would incure." Did you really just write that? And you claim to be educated??

lmao

"So your an upper middle class(I think they were called Nobles in the old days), and were hated by the people. For good reason." That was an attempt at an insult, although somewhat weak.

I am not feeding at any trough. I provide a valuable service for my company, and I am compensated for it quite well. I make a good living, but my service to the company make them or save them far more money than I cost.

YOu have no basis for your projections that I am going to be kicked away from the trough or have the rug pulled out from under me. And yet you make it sound like its a sure thing. My company experienced a downturn in 2008 and we had to lay people off. I survived that layoff. And we have been hiring people since early 2009. Careful growth, but growth nonetheless.

I hate to disappoint you, but my company (and the corporation it is a part of) are doing quite well.