Climate change discussion

Hello cordeela,

I have not entered into the allusion you have whereby I must get permission or approval for how and what I say. It is never a consideration of mine that I should make comments in the hope you and others approve. I do not.

I have no idea what you're talking about, simply stating that I do not respond to a set-up question that begins: "You mean ...?"

What I meant was what I said in my post.

If you attempt to rewrite my post that's you saying something. In this case, little more than a bunch of name-calling. Whoopie dew.

I am now wondering if we should continue talking at all. This could get better, but if it doesn't, that could finalize it. It could go either way.
 
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Hello redfish,

lets just explore your last comment, the link between pollution and climate that the left insists on.

if they did not claim that link why do they push electric cars, windmills, solar panels etc? They claim that those things will reduce the pollution created by hydrocarbons and therefore stop, or reverse climate change. So you are incorrect in that claim. Concur on that and we shall explore your next error.

Do you have an example of 'the left insisting on this link?'

Something a bit more specific than electric cars, windmills, solar panels?

And something more than one individual who is perceived to be liberal? You know there is no one person who speaks for all of what you call 'the left...' If you find one person saying something that is hardly 'the left.'
 
I have no problem with varying opinions and a mixture of facts. I simply will never acquiesce to the leftie bollox of continuous lies and duplicity. If your psychotically adhere to global warming just because you hate Mr Trump then so be it. If you have a settled argument on the matter, so be it. But please stop all this pretence and bullshit. If Trump got 100% of the black vote you lot would still pray for Antifa and the BLM to burn cities down. I despise Biden and would not blink if he dropped dead. But I can give reasons with evidence. The problem you bleeding heart lefties have is that you have no integrity so no matter whether the subject is Global warming or abortion or your support for the criminals BLM ... you just can not be trusted. No one cares.
 
When you folks have finished squabbling over the obvious- what will you be wearing tomorrow, your wet-suit or your asbestos duds ?



Maybe keep a Hazmat suit for Sundays at the Evangelical asylum.
 
Hello redfish,



Do you have an example of 'the left insisting on this link?'

Something a bit more specific than electric cars, windmills, solar panels?

And something more than one individual who is perceived to be liberal? You know there is no one person who speaks for all of what you call 'the left...' If you find one person saying something that is hardly 'the left.'



with all of the lefties the solution to "climate change" is always for humanity to stop using hydrocarbons. they say that hydrocarbons pollute the air and water and thereby CAUSE climate change. So the attempt to link them is obvious, even though it is unproven and hypothetical.

what could be more specific? those are the things that they say will "fix" the "problem".

as to how many humans have the defective liberal gene. I think the research shows it to be around 40%. and it is a defective gene, its been identified as DRD4. Look it up, you might learn something
 
When you folks have finished squabbling over the obvious- what will you be wearing tomorrow, your wet-suit or your asbestos duds ?



Maybe keep a Hazmat suit for Sundays at the Evangelical asylum.[/QUOT

weather is not climate. but I would be interested in hearing how humans caused climate change a million years ago. please explain how humans changed the climate before there were humans.
 
weather is not climate.
Weather is, of course, an expression of climate.

but I would be interested in hearing how humans caused climate change a million years ago. please explain how humans changed the climate before there were humans.

Read some paleo-climatology. Don't say anything else quite so stupid until you have.
 
Goodbye redfish,

I have had quite enough.

with all of the lefties the solution to "climate change" is always for humanity to stop using hydrocarbons. they say that hydrocarbons pollute the air and water and thereby CAUSE climate change. So the attempt to link them is obvious, even though it is unproven and hypothetical.

what could be more specific? those are the things that they say will "fix" the "problem".

as to how many humans have the defective liberal gene. I think the research shows it to be around 40%. and it is a defective gene, its been identified as DRD4. Look it up, you might learn something

A little closer look at your reasoning and you get testy? Apparently you don't like having someone point out flaws in your position. You won't accept human-caused climate change because it isn't proven, but then you believe nonsense about the left being 'inferior' without any proof. Quite duplicitous.

This is where I need to cut you off. You've just demonstrated and explained that you do not respect me, and you think there is some scientific reason that makes it OK to be condescending. If I don't cut you off right now I am giving tacit approval for you to continue the down-talking. And besides, I've heard it all before. I like learning things but there is nothing I want to learn from you. I have no desire to be part of an abuser/enabler relationship.

I'll gladly talk politics with anyone of any view as long as the discussion remains mutually respectful.

I wish you well, hope you have an enjoyable life, but I know mine will be more enjoyable without you in it. You are permanently Ignored.
 
Hello redfish,



OK, but other Americans have a different perception of it. To me on the left, a view of the left like that sounds like a bunch of hateful propaganda from right wing extremists. It is simply not true. First of all, 'the left' doesn't think anything. PEOPLE think things. 'The left' is a lot more than one person. 'The left' is half of America. The left is a very large group of individuals who all have their own ideas about things and their own thoughts. Anybody can SAY the left wants to control your life. Doesn't mean it's true. And it can't be proven. You don't want to believe in climate change because it can't be proven, but here you are believing in this gossip about 'the left,' and it can't be proven either.

How much is 'can't be proven' worth if it is used at your convenience, but only matters when it agrees with what you want to believe?

There are good people on the left; and there are good people on the right. And there are bad people on both sides. The we/they thing is totally overrated because hucksters make a fast buck by fanning rumors with the flames of sensationalism. Wise minds don't fall for it.

There are conservative and liberal talking heads who profit greatly from stirring up controversy. It doesn't have to be real. All it has to be is something popular. It's popular to further the divide in America, the divide between the right and the left. The we/they theory. Man, if you can grab attention by spouting made-up nonsense about personality differences between the right and the left, then you can get attention, get viewership, get ratings, sell advertising, and get money. That doesn't mean the controversy is real. It's just words. No proof. All it means is people making a fast buck by fanning the flames of division in America.

And that hurts America. It gets good people like you and me distracted by sensationalism when what we are really doing is trying to figure out the best decisions our government should be doing. This is very important because it affects our lives.

There are personality differences within the right, within the left, and between the two. But where is the sensationalism in pointing out the personality differences within the right or within the left? That doesn't sell advertising so ya never hear about that. We have to keep this whole thing in perspective. There are plenty of character flaws on both sides of the political spectrum. Neither the left nor the right have any patent on character flaws.

Anybody who thinks they are perfect is obviously mistaken. And anybody who thinks their side of the political divide is perfect and the other side is the whole problem is also quite flawed. There is logic on both sides and there is illogical thinking on both sides. We're all just Americans, trying to get by.

These are total BS:

'Being on the left is a character flaw'

'Liberalism is a mental disease'

and

'The left just wants to control your life.'

All of those are false hurtful things to say. We need to care more about our fellow Americans than to spread false hurtful rumors. If that's they only thing we can bring in support of our beliefs, false hurtful rumors, then it doesn't say much for our beliefs, now does it.

People should believe in political positions based on facts, not rumors.

The DEMOCRATS are socialists, and they want to control people's lives. Semantics fallacy.
 
Take the train. Expand your relationships.

What train??
If he wants to fly is personal jet from Seattle to Las Vegas, there IS NO TRAIN from Seattle to Las Vegas. There is NO PASSENGER service by rail to Las Vegas at all! There is NO TRAIN SERVICE from any city to Las Vegas.

Why would anyone spend 23 hours on a train instead of 2 hours in is own private jet, particularly if he flies his own jet?
 
nice rant, but you are missing some important realities. If the left (the people who lean left) dont want to control everyone, why do they want to mandate unproven "climate saving" actions? why do they ignore the half of the scientific community that say that humans are not affecting the climate of earth? Remember, we are talking about the climate of planet earth, not the weather in boston or miami.

unfortunately this climate debate has become political because some see it as a way to gain power. If you have some facts to prove that the acts of humans are in fact changing the earth's climate, post them. then check into the real science that concludes that sunspots, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents actually affect the climate.

finally, until the AGW crowd finds a way to separate pollution from climate change, there will never be any consensus. Everyone agrees that pollution needs to be curtailed, you don't need a fake link between pollution and climate in order to fight pollution.

Science has NO theories about climate. Climate is not a quantitative term. It is a subjective term. Science has NO theories about subjective terms.

Nothing affects climate. A desert climate is still a desert climate. A marine climate is still a marine climate. Climate has no quantitative value. There is nothing to 'change'.
 
It is out of concern for our descendants and the future of humanity, just as stated.
So you want your descendants and the future of humanity to live under fascism and the Church of Global Warming as the state religion.
It is not half of the scientific community.
Science is not a community. There is no such thing as a 'scientific community'. Science is a set of falsifiable theories.
Only a very small percentage deny human caused climate change.
Climate has no quantity. There is nothing that can change.
Most of science says we have to change our ways.
Science says no such thing. But, since you bring up science and physics, let's look at a few laws of physics that you deny:
The 1st law of thermodynamics. It is not possible to create energy out of nothing. E(t+1) = E(t)-U
The 2nd law of thermodynamics. You cannot heat a warmer surface using a colder gas, nor cause a reduction of entropy in any way, no matter how magickal you make it. e(t+1) >= e(t)
The Stefan-Boltzmann law. You cannot trap light. No gas or vapor has the capability to trap light. r=C*e*t^4

No gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth.
You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat.

It is wishful thinking to go against a basic physics law that says: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
No such law. Newton's law of motion is F=mA. There is only one law of motion. This one. It describes conservation of motion, and the effect of an equal and opposite reaction.
7 billion humans burn things daily, or have them burned in their name, and there has to be side effects from that.
Yes. Industry. Keeping warm.
It's not like all that extra carbon going into the atmosphere is just vanishing.
Burning something does not produce carbon. Carbon is a fuel. Denial of oxy-reduction chemistry.
Before the Earth was infested with so many humans, that carbon was not going into the atmosphere. Humans caused that.
Burning something does not produce carbon. Carbon is a fuel.
No believer in human caused climate change
Climate cannot change. It has no quantity.
has attempted to claim that human industrial activity is the only cause of climate change,
Climate cannot change. It has no quantity.
nor that others don't exist. All these factors contribute.
To what? Void argument fallacy.
I'm not clear on where you got the idea that there is a link between the two.
From you and the Church of Global Warming.
I can only imagine it is because the EPA designated CO2 as a pollutant for regulatory purposes.
What is it polluting?
Agreed, most of what we think of as pollution is not the major factor in human-caused climate change.
Define 'pollution'.
I'm glad we agree that pollution is bad and we need to continue to work on eliminating pollution.
Define 'pollution'.
Another big problem caused by over-population
Define 'over-population'. Who are YOU to decide if population is too high? You want to reduce population? You first.
is species loss.
Non-sequitur fallacy. Buzzwords do not cause species loss.
Humans are responsible for thousands of extinctions which would not have otherwise occurred.
How do you know that would not have occurred? Sorry, but you have no reference point.
The diversity and veracity of our habitat is being irreversibly changed, and not for the better.
Who are YOU to say what is 'better'? Who made YOU king?
 
There are people on both sides of the political spectrum who talk like that.
Nope. Only DEMOCRATS and other socialists.
The world is full of them.
The world is full of socialists.
If you don't want to see it you can always use the Ignore feature.
Doesn't make them go away.
Nobody mouths off at me and gets away with it.
People do all the time. You don't reply.
And in turn, I feel no need to reply in kind.
Thank you for removing yourself from the conversation.
Makes for a far more benevolent experience in discussing politics.
No, it cuts you OUT of discussing politics...or anything else.
Treat others as you wish to be treated.
No, I don't put you on ignore.
Great concept. What goes around comes around.
I don't put you on ignore.
If you don't Ignore them, it is like giving consent for more of the same.
Non-sequitur fallacy.
Then, an abuser/enabler relationship is established, whether you like it or not. You have the choice. You can lower yourself to that level or remain above it.
You are simply not part of any level. Your ignore list is probably the largest on JPP.
 
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