Climate change discussion

Hello redfish,

redfish said:
because the left think they know more about how people should live than the people themselves. Its a character flaw but all leftists have it. Liberalism is a mental disease, diseases defy logic.
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OK, but other Americans have a different perception of it. To me on the left, a view of the left like that sounds like a bunch of hateful propaganda from right wing extremists. It is simply not true. First of all, 'the left' doesn't think anything. PEOPLE think things. 'The left' is a lot more than one person. 'The left' is half of America. The left is a very large group of individuals who all have their own ideas about things and their own thoughts. Anybody can SAY the left wants to control your life. Doesn't mean it's true. And it can't be proven. You don't want to believe in climate change because it can't be proven, but here you are believing in this gossip about 'the left,' and it can't be proven either.

How much is 'can't be proven' worth if it is used at your convenience, but only matters when it agrees with what you want to believe?

There are good people on the left; and there are good people on the right. And there are bad people on both sides. The we/they thing is totally overrated because hucksters make a fast buck by fanning rumors with the flames of sensationalism. Wise minds don't fall for it.

There are conservative and liberal talking heads who profit greatly from stirring up controversy. It doesn't have to be real. All it has to be is something popular. It's popular to further the divide in America, the divide between the right and the left. The we/they theory. Man, if you can grab attention by spouting made-up nonsense about personality differences between the right and the left, then you can get attention, get viewership, get ratings, sell advertising, and get money. That doesn't mean the controversy is real. It's just words. No proof. All it means is people making a fast buck by fanning the flames of division in America.

And that hurts America. It gets good people like you and me distracted by sensationalism when what we are really doing is trying to figure out the best decisions our government should be doing. This is very important because it affects our lives.

There are personality differences within the right, within the left, and between the two. But where is the sensationalism in pointing out the personality differences within the right or within the left? That doesn't sell advertising so ya never hear about that. We have to keep this whole thing in perspective. There are plenty of character flaws on both sides of the political spectrum. Neither the left nor the right have any patent on character flaws.

Anybody who thinks they are perfect is obviously mistaken. And anybody who thinks their side of the political divide is perfect and the other side is the whole problem is also quite flawed. There is logic on both sides and there is illogical thinking on both sides. We're all just Americans, trying to get by.

These are total BS:

'Being on the left is a character flaw'

'Liberalism is a mental disease'

and

'The left just wants to control your life.'

All of those are false hurtful things to say. We need to care more about our fellow Americans than to spread false hurtful rumors. If that's they only thing we can bring in support of our beliefs, false hurtful rumors, then it doesn't say much for our beliefs, now does it.

People should believe in political positions based on facts, not rumors.
 
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PoliTalker said:
Hello redfish,



OK, but other Americans have a different perception of it. To me on the left, a view of the left like that sounds like a bunch of hateful propaganda from right wing extremists. It is simply not true. First of all, 'the left' doesn't think anything. PEOPLE think things. 'The left' is a lot more than one person. 'The left' is half of America. The left is a very large group of individuals who all have their own ideas about things and their own thoughts. Anybody can SAY the left wants to control your life. Doesn't mean it's true. And it can't be proven. You don't want to believe in climate change because it can't be proven, but here you are believing in this gossip about 'the left,' and it can't be proven either.

How much is 'can't be proven' worth if it is used at your convenience, but only matters when it agrees with what you want to believe?

There are good people on the left; and there are good people on the right. And there are bad people on both sides. The we/they thing is totally overrated because hucksters make a fast buck by fanning rumors with the flames of sensationalism. Wise minds don't fall for it.

There are conservative and liberal talking heads who profit greatly from stirring up controversy. It doesn't have to be real. All it has to be is something popular. It's popular to further the divide in America, the divide between the right and the left. The we/they theory. Man, if you can grab attention by spouting made-up nonsense about personality differences between the right and the left, then you can get attention, get viewership, get ratings, sell advertising, and get money. That doesn't mean the controversy is real. It's just words. No proof. All it means is people making a fast buck by fanning the flames of division in America.

And that hurts America. It gets good people like you and me distracted by sensationalism when what we are really doing is trying to figure out the best decisions our government should be doing. This is very important because it affects our lives.

There are personality differences within the right, within the left, and between the two. But where is the sensationalism in pointing out the personality differences within the right or within the left? That doesn't sell advertising so ya never hear about that. We have to keep this whole thing in perspective. There are plenty of character flaws on both sides of the political spectrum. Neither the left nor the right have any patent on character flaws.

Anybody who thinks they are perfect is obviously mistaken. And anybody who thinks their side of the political divide is perfect and the other side is the whole problem is also quite flawed. There is logic on both sides and there is illogical thinking on both sides. We're all just Americans, trying to get by.

These are total BS:

'Being on the left is a character flaw'

'Liberalism is a mental disease'

and

'The left just wants to control your life.'

All of those are false hurtful things to say. We need to care more about our fellow Americans than to spread false hurtful rumors. If that's they only thing we can bring in support of our beliefs, false hurtful rumors, then it doesn't say much for our beliefs, now does it.

People should believe in political positions based on facts, not rumors.
Click to expand...



nice rant, but you are missing some important realities. If the left (the people who lean left) dont want to control everyone, why do they want to mandate unproven "climate saving" actions? why do they ignore the half of the scientific community that say that humans are not affecting the climate of earth? Remember, we are talking about the climate of planet earth, not the weather in boston or miami.

unfortunately this climate debate has become political because some see it as a way to gain power. If you have some facts to prove that the acts of humans are in fact changing the earth's climate, post them. then check into the real science that concludes that sunspots, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents actually affect the climate.

finally, until the AGW crowd finds a way to separate pollution from climate change, there will never be any consensus. Everyone agrees that pollution needs to be curtailed, you don't need a fake link between pollution and climate in order to fight pollution.
 
Micawber said:
There is nothing to discuss. It's real, harmful and we will fix it, without you retarded scum sucking traitor ignorant redneck losers.
We control everything, and we are taking all the action we want and will do whatever the fuck we want from now on.
THank your fucking orange traitor corrupt lying science denying loser for that, you ignorant peasant shit.
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the post above is typical of a braindead indoctrinated libtardian. full of hate and fury, signifying nothing. (shakespere updated)
 
redfish said:
I want the resident libs to respond to this with factual data if you have any

1. the climate of planet earth has been changing for hundreds of millions of years, ice cores and fossils prove that
2. man has never had anything to do with it
3. the sun and earth's tilt of its axis control our climate, not use of fossil fuels
4. solar and wind and hydro make up around 5% of our energy use, they will never be capable of producing 100%
5. The USA has drastically reduced pollution in the last 30 years
6. It takes massive amounts of fossil fuel to produce solar panels and windmills. they are made of plastics and plexiglass which are made from oil
7. electric cars require recharging after 200 miles or so. you will never be able to drive across the country in an electric car or truck
8. the electricity to recharge is produced mostly by fossil fuels
9. which of you will volunteer for the first night flight in a solar powered airplane?
10. If your goal is to stop pollution, why isn't that enough? why do you need an unproved link between pollution and climate?
11. everyone on earth supports reducing pollution, everyone
12. be honest, this is not about pollution or climate, its about finding a way to control everyone's actions and lives
13. Al Gore is a liar and hypocrite
Click to expand...
Well said. They lose at elections - unless by fraudulent means - so ply one of two methods or both - (1) The courts, using minority "rights". (2) Invent some extreme false premise (Global Warming) - BLM fake caring. et al. But one fact they always stick to: They never, ever answer any matter put to them that is 100% true which pushes against their ideological mindset. As with the BLM saying proven criminal thug violent man George Floyd was a wonderful loving, kind man a credit to society.
 
"People should believe in political positions based on facts, not rumors"

This is exactly my modus operandi - You mean like when Kamaleion and Biden and Pelosi and AOC can literally look at a recording of absolute destruction and killings - 100% unequivocal proven fact caused and incited by their leftie BLM ANtifa buddies in support of Biden.. yet never acknowledge, refer, accept, speak, point, to anything of truth or speak against it. Yes these people are vile rotten slime satanic and evil and they are destroying the USA. A cancer.
 
Hello redfish,

redfish said:
nice rant, but you are missing some important realities. If the left (the people who lean left) dont want to control everyone, why do they want to mandate unproven "climate saving" actions?
Click to expand...

It is out of concern for our descendants and the future of humanity, just as stated.

redfish said:
why do they ignore the half of the scientific community that say that humans are not affecting the climate of earth? Remember, we are talking about the climate of planet earth, not the weather in boston or miami.
Click to expand...

It is not half of the scientific community. Only a very small percentage deny human caused climate change. Most of science says we have to change our ways. It is wishful thinking to go against a basic physics law that says: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 7 billion humans burn things daily, or have them burned in their name, and there has to be side effects from that. It's not like all that extra carbon going into the atmosphere is just vanishing. Before the Earth was infested with so many humans, that carbon was not going into the atmosphere. Humans caused that.

redfish said:
unfortunately this climate debate has become political because some see it as a way to gain power. If you have some facts to prove that the acts of humans are in fact changing the earth's climate, post them. then check into the real science that concludes that sunspots, the earth's tilt on its axis, and ocean currents actually affect the climate.
Click to expand...

No believer in human caused climate change has attempted to claim that human industrial activity is the only cause of climate change, nor that others don't exist. All these factors contribute.

redfish said:
finally, until the AGW crowd finds a way to separate pollution from climate change, there will never be any consensus. Everyone agrees that pollution needs to be curtailed, you don't need a fake link between pollution and climate in order to fight pollution.
Click to expand...

I'm not clear on where you got the idea that there is a link between the two. I can only imagine it is because the EPA designated CO2 as a pollutant for regulatory purposes. Agreed, most of what we think of as pollution is not the major factor in human-caused climate change. I'm glad we agree that pollution is bad and we need to continue to work on eliminating pollution.

Another big problem caused by over-population is species loss. Humans are responsible for thousands of extinctions which would not have otherwise occurred. The diversity and veracity of our habitat is being irreversibly changed, and not for the better.
 
Hello redfish,

redfish said:
the post above is typical of a braindead indoctrinated libtardian. full of hate and fury, signifying nothing. (shakespere updated)
Click to expand...

There are people on both sides of the political spectrum who talk like that. The world is full of them. If you don't want to see it you can always use the Ignore feature. Nobody mouths off at me and gets away with it. And in turn, I feel no need to reply in kind. Makes for a far more benevolent experience in discussing politics. I would highly recommend it. Treat others as you wish to be treated. Great concept. What goes around comes around.

If you don't Ignore them, it is like giving consent for more of the same.

Then, an abuser/enabler relationship is established, whether you like it or not. You have the choice. You can lower yourself to that level or remain above it.
 
Hello cordeela,

cordeela said:
Well said. They lose at elections - unless by fraudulent means - so ply one of two methods or both - (1) The courts, using minority "rights". (2) Invent some extreme false premise (Global Warming) - BLM fake caring. et al. But one fact they always stick to: They never, ever answer any matter put to them that is 100% true which pushes against their ideological mindset. As with the BLM saying proven criminal thug violent man George Floyd was a wonderful loving, kind man a credit to society.
Click to expand...

1. The election was totally valid.

2. All lives matter, but there are a lot of police who don't seem to agree.

3. This is a discussion about climate change.
 
Hello cordeela,

cordeela said:
"People should believe in political positions based on facts, not rumors"

This is exactly my modus operandi - You mean like when Kamaleion and Biden and Pelosi and AOC can literally look at a recording of absolute destruction and killings - 100% unequivocal proven fact caused and incited by their leftie BLM ANtifa buddies in support of Biden.. yet never acknowledge, refer, accept, speak, point, to anything of truth or speak against it. Yes these people are vile rotten slime satanic and evil and they are destroying the USA. A cancer.
Click to expand...

I will tell you what I mean but you will have to read it in my posts. It's not going to be something you suggest. Your views and mine are different.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cordeela,



1. The election was totally valid.

2. All lives matter, but there are a lot of police who don't seem to agree.

3. This is a discussion about climate change.
Click to expand...
Got any thoughts on natural variability like the stuff I posted? Does it not exist in your mind? Only CO2 affects climate?
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello cordeela,



I will tell you what I mean but you will have to read it in my posts. It's not going to be something you suggest. Your views and mine are different.
Click to expand...
I have not entered into the allusion you have whereby I must get permission or approval for how and what I say. It is never a consideration of mine that I should make comments in the hope you and others approve. I do not.
 
cordeela said:
I have not entered into the allusion you have whereby I must get permission or approval for how and what I say. It is never a consideration of mine that I should make comments in the hope you and others approve. I do not.
Click to expand...

Pompous twat.
 
I'll ask the same question I used to ask the climate alarmists back the day at fullpolitics and even at politics.com: How much of climate warming are humans responsible for?

I've provided the evidence that the ocean heat cycles are responsible for 80% of climate changes.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello redfish,



It is out of concern for our descendants and the future of humanity, just as stated.



It is not half of the scientific community. Only a very small percentage deny human caused climate change. Most of science says we have to change our ways. It is wishful thinking to go against a basic physics law that says: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 7 billion humans burn things daily, or have them burned in their name, and there has to be side effects from that. It's not like all that extra carbon going into the atmosphere is just vanishing. Before the Earth was infested with so many humans, that carbon was not going into the atmosphere. Humans caused that.



No believer in human caused climate change has attempted to claim that human industrial activity is the only cause of climate change, nor that others don't exist. All these factors contribute.



I'm not clear on where you got the idea that there is a link between the two. I can only imagine it is because the EPA designated CO2 as a pollutant for regulatory purposes. Agreed, most of what we think of as pollution is not the major factor in human-caused climate change. I'm glad we agree that pollution is bad and we need to continue to work on eliminating pollution.

Another big problem caused by over-population is species loss. Humans are responsible for thousands of extinctions which would not have otherwise occurred. The diversity and veracity of our habitat is being irreversibly changed, and not for the better.
Click to expand...



lets just explore your last comment, the link between pollution and climate that the left insists on.

if they did not claim that link why do they push electric cars, windmills, solar panels etc? They claim that those things will reduce the pollution created by hydrocarbons and therefore stop, or reverse climate change. So you are incorrect in that claim. Concur on that and we shall explore your next error.
 
The dirty secret of the climate scam is that CO2 concentration is a result of ocean temperatures and the ability of water to absorb the CO2 present in the atmosphere, with cooler waters increasing absorption and drawing down the concentration.

CO2 rise is a result of warming, not the cause.
The extra CO2 we add is not responsible for climate change
 
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