Christmas has a substantial secular component in the U.S.: BUT !! Q ...

Speaking of Predestination...the Scriptures are clear, God had a plan for the salvation of mankind through the birth, life, death and resurrection of His only Begotten Son, Christ Jesus...even before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20)....as the Apostle Paul states, Before time itself existed (2 Tim. 1:9)

God's word also tells us that this plan was hidden from mankind and even from the prophets who foretold of it in prophecy when they did not comprehend what they were revealing (Eph. 3:5-6, 1 Peter 1:10-12). We are then told by the scriptures that this plan was revealed through the Holy Spirit of God through the inspired words of the hand picked Apostles of Christ and the prophets of that time period....at the time of God's choosing, not mans. (Eph. 3: 5, 1 Peter 1:12)

We are also told that when we read the Word of God...we are quite capable of understanding it (Eph. 3:4) We are further commanded to understand the will of God as revealed through His Word (Eph. 5:17).

And the passage that demonstrates that God does not control the thoughts and actions of mankind, "....(God) who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." -- 1 Tim. 2:4

How could God desire something that was predestined? The only thing God predestines are His promises, as God cannot lie.
 
Rana said:
You didn't, you are once again, sadly mistaken.
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I most certainly did.

Epicurus was asking the wrong questions. It's not a question of God's nature; rather, whether God could have created morally free beings without evil arising as a consequence.

Actually, it was kind of a lame attempt to put the blame for evil back on God.
 
Ralph said:
Speaking of Predestination...the Scriptures are clear, God had a plan for the salvation of mankind through the birth, life, death and resurrection of His only Begotten Son, Christ Jesus...even before the foundation of the world (1 Peter 1:20)....as the Apostle Paul states, Before time itself existed (2 Tim. 1:9)

God's word also tells us that this plan was hidden from mankind and even from the prophets who foretold of it in prophecy when they did not comprehend what they were revealing (Eph. 3:5-6, 1 Peter 1:10-12). We are then told by the scriptures that this plan was revealed through the Holy Spirit of God through the inspired words of the hand picked Apostles of Christ and the prophets of that time period....at the time of God's choosing, not mans. (Eph. 3: 5, 1 Peter 1:12)

We are also told that when we read the Word of God...we are quite capable of understanding it (Eph. 3:4) We are further commanded to understand the will of God as revealed through His Word (Eph. 5:17).

And the passage that demonstrates that God does not control the thoughts and actions of mankind, "....(God) who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth." -- 1 Tim. 2:4

How could God desire something that was predestined? The only thing God predestines are His promises, as God cannot lie.
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Just something to consider. Paul often used a form of the word 'all' translated from the Greek 'Ek' meaning out of, from, by, away from...not meaning a universal totality. In the full context of 1Tim. 2:1-5, Paul refers to 'all from God's elect' or 'all kinds of people'.

Here's a rather good piece showing the relationship between free will and predestined.
http://www.objectivegospel.org/the-big-three
 
sear said:
"How can a person choose if their "choice" is already known in advance?" d7 #61

But d7, knowledge aforehand and predetermination are two different things.
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God has predestined and knows his elect. Free will is not really a Biblical term. God chooses to give the faith to someone so they can believe and be saved. Man living according to his flesh will never seek Christ or salvation on his own because flesh does not seek spiritual things.

"Many are called, few are chosen."
Matthew 22:14

"And those He predestined He also called, those He called He also justified, those He justified He also glorified."
Romans 8:30

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.'"
Matthew 7:21-23
 
Ralph said:
Again...control is nothing but an illusion. You exist by the Grace of God, your next breath is unsure, you are at the mercy of things that are far removed from YOUR CONTROL or any control by mankind. Anything you think you "know" most certainly exists void of any control. But due to the facts of physical law that places limits on your supposed knowledge you can know something and that something can be a falsehood....unless you are omniscient as is the God of Creation. What good is knowledge if that knowledge is false?

In relation to Christianity there is only one source of truthful knowledge....., "Sanctify them in Your truth, Your word is truth." -- John 17:17

Thus, in relation to Christian Doctrine, the Word of God, as Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God...the only thing that can be tested for truthful knowledge comes within the revealed word of God....the Holy Scriptures. Anything else if false knowledge.

And FYI: "predestination" is very much attainable by God void of having to see into a non existent future that is yet to be quantified by the potential it possess.
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Funny shit about someone talking about illusions.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
I most certainly did.

Epicurus was asking the wrong questions. It's not a question of God's nature; rather, whether God could have created morally free beings without evil arising as a consequence.

Actually, it was kind of a lame attempt to put the blame for evil back on God.
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Why would your all-powerful, all-benevolent deity permit it? Just to let us fuck with each other?
 
domer76 said:
Why would your all-powerful, all-benevolent deity permit it? Just to let us fuck with each other?
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because we would not be free if our actions were restricted.....would you have preferred life as a robot?....given that you bitch even when you PRETEND Christians want to control your actions, I expect the answer is no......
 
domer76 said:
Why would your all-powerful, all-benevolent deity permit it?
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("it" being evil)

If people turn their backs on God and enjoy their evil, there comes a point where he stops dealing with them in love and gives them over to their desires.

Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever..."
Genesis 6:3

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Romans 1:28-32
 
" God chooses to give the faith to someone so they can believe and be saved. " #85
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So god picks winners and losers.
god knows beforehand who will "believe & be saved" and who will not.

Pascal's Wager advocated that we profess a belief in god whether we actually do or not; because according to Pascal
- if there is a god, a little metaphysical hypocrisy for a brief (century long) mortality will pay rich dividends when rewarded with eternal life (trillions of eons) in paradise, AND

- if there is not, no harm done.

Pascal's Wager was not an argument for belief. Pascal's wager was an argument for hypocrisy.

Are we really supposed to think god wouldn't know that we don't believe, but lied about it? Does Pascal expect us to believe god is that stupid?

And if you were god; which individual would you appreciate more?
- the one that lied? Or

- the one that openly & honestly confessed his ignorance?

Personally, if god wishes to punish me for honesty, then I would have no wish to go to Heaven anyway. I'd be more at home elsewhere.
 
sear said:
So god picks winners and losers.
god knows beforehand who will "believe & be saved" and who will not.

Pascal's Wager advocated that we profess a belief in god whether we actually do or not; because according to Pascal
- if there is a god, a little metaphysical hypocrisy for a brief (century long) mortality will pay rich dividends when rewarded with eternal life (trillions of eons) in paradise, AND

- if there is not, no harm done.

Pascal's Wager was not an argument for belief. Pascal's wager was an argument for hypocrisy.

Are we really supposed to think god wouldn't know that we don't believe, but lied about it? Does Pascal expect us to believe god is that stupid?

And if you were god; which individual would you appreciate more?
- the one that lied? Or

- the one that openly & honestly confessed his ignorance?

Personally, if god wishes to punish me for honesty, then I would have no wish to go to Heaven anyway. I'd be more at home elsewhere.
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Doesn't sound to me like lying or hypocrisy would reap any reward. However, confessing and repenting of your sin, lying and hypocrisy now, before you die and honestly seeking forgiveness with acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will save your life for all eternity. I claim no study of a man's judgments of God and his ways or methods. I give you God's Word. Your argument is with him, not me.

Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.
Proverbs 3:5-7

It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.
Psalm 118:8

Thus says the Lord: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord."
Jer 17:5

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
Romans 2:1-5

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:1
 
sear said:
So god picks winners and losers.
god knows beforehand who will "believe & be saved" and who will not.

Pascal's Wager advocated that we profess a belief in god whether we actually do or not; because according to Pascal
- if there is a god, a little metaphysical hypocrisy for a brief (century long) mortality will pay rich dividends when rewarded with eternal life (trillions of eons) in paradise, AND

- if there is not, no harm done.

Pascal's Wager was not an argument for belief. Pascal's wager was an argument for hypocrisy.

Are we really supposed to think god wouldn't know that we don't believe, but lied about it? Does Pascal expect us to believe god is that stupid?

And if you were god; which individual would you appreciate more?
- the one that lied? Or

- the one that openly & honestly confessed his ignorance?

Personally, if god wishes to punish me for honesty, then I would have no wish to go to Heaven anyway. I'd be more at home elsewhere.
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From your mouth to God's ear.

:lol:
 
sear said:
#93
I pray you are right.
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I see you're still to stupid to figure out the quote feature.

Here's your failure trophy.

image589.png
 
"I see you're still to stupid to figure out the quote feature." U9
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In my post #92 there are 3 separate quotations.

Yet you persist in accusing me of being too stupid to do something I've been doing since the previous millennium.

From this we can conclude that U9 isn't intelligent enough to know:

a) If I've done it, I'm obviously smart enough to do it. &

b) Therefore when I don't, it's for a reason other than stupidity.

Obviously, considering how many times you've whined so childishly & priggishly, and outright wrongly about it; there is one or more deeper issues here.

Professional counseling might be helpful to you. I don't know how many posting members there are in this cyber-community. But I don't recall any insulting, personal attack / complaints about it posted under any other pseud than yours.

So obviously the problem is yours, not mine.

The amusing sanity check on it all is, YOU (of all people) are the one calling ME "stupid". Is there any evidence your IQ has, or ever will reach triple digits?
 
sear said:
In my post #92 there are 3 separate quotations.

Yet you persist in accusing me of being too stupid to do something I've been doing since the previous millennium.

From this we can conclude that U9 isn't intelligent enough to know:

a) If I've done it, I'm obviously smart enough to do it. &

b) Therefore when I don't, it's for a reason other than stupidity.

Obviously, considering how many times you've whined so childishly & priggishly, and outright wrongly about it; there is one or more deeper issues here.

Professional counseling might be helpful to you. I don't know how many posting members there are in this cyber-community. But I don't recall any insulting, personal attack / complaints about it posted under any other pseud than yours.

So obviously the problem is yours, not mine.

The amusing sanity check on it all is, YOU (of all people) are the one calling ME "stupid". Is there any evidence your IQ has, or ever will reach triple digits?
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1 - You couldn't even use the quote feature properly, in this response

AND

2 - Your post, that you referenced; doesn't show who the posts are, that you're replying to.

I'm not the only one who's pointed out your inability and failures, so don't be surprised if others start ignoring you; because of your stupidity.

It's your choice. :good4u:
 
sear said:
In my post #92 there are 3 separate quotations.

Yet you persist in accusing me of being too stupid to do something I've been doing since the previous millennium.

From this we can conclude that U9 isn't intelligent enough to know:

a) If I've done it, I'm obviously smart enough to do it. &

b) Therefore when I don't, it's for a reason other than stupidity.

Obviously, considering how many times you've whined so childishly & priggishly, and outright wrongly about it; there is one or more deeper issues here.

Professional counseling might be helpful to you. I don't know how many posting members there are in this cyber-community. But I don't recall any insulting, personal attack / complaints about it posted under any other pseud than yours.

So obviously the problem is yours, not mine.

The amusing sanity check on it all is, YOU (of all people) are the one calling ME "stupid". Is there any evidence your IQ has, or ever will reach triple digits?
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. He's lucky if his IQ matching his bowling shoe size.
 
domer76 said:
Funny shit about someone talking about illusions.
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Once again.....the scriptures read the same for both you and I, that's objective testable truth as far as the reason that faith rests in my heart. You can hate...but that hate is upon your soul not the one's that you are projecting it upon, as its generated in YOUR heart.

The proof is in the pudding. You keep attacking the World of God yet you have offered no objective evidence of God's non-existence. Why? You can't prove a negative. What you are doing amounts to bragging about what a "marksman" you are...you never miss the target, that's the false premise.

The reality? You never miss because you first Knock an Arrow in your perfect bow and with perfect form you launch the arrow in the direction of a big red barn.....the arrow finds the side of the big red barn....you rush to the barn and proceed to draw a target with your arrow at the center then rush out to show everyone how your arrow always finds its mark. Laughable. That's the illusion that you have constructed YOUR FAITH around....secular humanism. You are claiming to be greater than the reality from which you were subtracted...the created can never be greater than the creator.

You can't even explain your "origins"....you cling to a false ideology where you claim to be the product of nothing....yet you are somehow superior to everything. Now that's an ILLUSION and if you believe that you are most certainly "DELUSIONAL". :)
 
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