Christmas has a substantial secular component in the U.S.: BUT !! Q ...

Stretch said:
Does God know everything? Yes. The Bible says he knows the beginning from the end.

Do we have free will? Yes. From the early days, believers were given the Great Commission to take the Gospel to the ends of the earth. The salvation message is given and the hearer must choose life or death.

God knows everything and people are free to choose. They co-exist. In the natural it makes no sense, so we believe by faith that both are true simply because this is God's Word. We were not given the mental ability by God to grasp this. It's easier and less stressful to simply take God at his word, believe that both circumstances exist by design, give thanks to God that he knows best and go on with our lives trusting in his greater wisdom and live our lives by faith...which is all he asks to do. :)

As far as advancing automotively from the Edsel to the cars of today...OK...we can handle stuff like that, LOL
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How can a person choose if their "choice" is already known in advance?
 
Stretch said:
Does God know everything? Yes. The Bible says he knows the beginning from the end.

Do we have free will? Yes. From the early days, believers were given the Great Commission to take the Gospel to the ends of the earth. The salvation message is given and the hearer must choose life or death.

God knows everything and people are free to choose. They co-exist. In the natural it makes no sense, so we believe by faith that both are true simply because this is God's Word. We were not given the mental ability by God to grasp this. It's easier and less stressful to simply take God at his word, believe that both circumstances exist by design, give thanks to God that he knows best and go on with our lives trusting in his greater wisdom and live our lives by faith...which is all he asks to do. :)

As far as advancing automotively from the Edsel to the cars of today...OK...we can handle stuff like that, LOL
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God's Word? How do you know what God's Word is? Oh, that's right. It's the Bible. How do you know the Bible is God's Word? Easy. It says so in the Bible.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
These little exercises sound convincing until you follow through with them.

Let's assume God rids the world of evil. It would follow that humans are incapable of evil. How would that work? If you can't rob from you neighbor that can only mean you would never have the desire; or that God prevents you from it even when you want to.

And if it's the latter, you aren't really free, are you.

The real question is why didn't God create humans perfect. It actually has nothing to do with His fundamental nature or limitations.
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So, your god created humans in his own image so they can shit on each other. What a great fucking concept!
 
domer76 said:
How can a person choose if their "choice" is already known in advance?
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How can even an Omniscient God know what a free willed person will be "thinking" in a future that is yet to arrive? He can't. As detailed in scripture. God plans and allows time to run its course and then manipulates the free will actions of men....any man He wants..even you if He so desires (Isaiah 46:9-11) Why? He's God....He's Omnipotent...He can. The created is never superior to the creator.

If what you are saying is logical and true....How could God have repented (said He was sorry) concerning the creation of mankind...if He knew in advance that man would choose evil over good by majority? (Genesis 6:6-7)

Why would God "hope" that all men come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved...if He already knew who was to be saved and who was not? Sin is the key....the wages of sin is death....God don't make men sin, they freely choose to sin.
 
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"How can a person choose if their "choice" is already known in advance?" d7 #61
"No thought or action can be both preordained and an act of free will at the same time." tronport
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But d7, knowledge aforehand and predetermination are two different things.

We can know something, without having control over it.
 
#77

Excellent!
I'm so glad you've finally come around to my posting style.

Yes. Facts indeed. And you're welcome to use my #76 as a pattern to model yours on, from now on.
 
sear said:
"How can a person choose if their "choice" is already known in advance?" d7 #61

But d7, knowledge aforehand and predetermination are two different things.

We can know something, without having control over it.
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Again...control is nothing but an illusion. You exist by the Grace of God, your next breath is unsure, you are at the mercy of things that are far removed from YOUR CONTROL or any control by mankind. Anything you think you "know" most certainly exists void of any control. But due to the facts of physical law that places limits on your supposed knowledge you can know something and that something can be a falsehood....unless you are omniscient as is the God of Creation. What good is knowledge if that knowledge is false?

In relation to Christianity there is only one source of truthful knowledge....., "Sanctify them in Your truth, Your word is truth." -- John 17:17

Thus, in relation to Christian Doctrine, the Word of God, as Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God...the only thing that can be tested for truthful knowledge comes within the revealed word of God....the Holy Scriptures. Anything else if false knowledge.

And FYI: "predestination" is very much attainable by God void of having to see into a non existent future that is yet to be quantified by the potential it possess.
 
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