China

Can a man not make Mao Zedong his avatar every now and again? Maybe throw in a few Mao Zedong quotes? And make his tag line "The Diaoyu islands are China's!" in Chinese? Does that mean he can not be a patriot? I think not. I think we have these rights. This is what makes us American!

Sure...you can do that...but a fucking newly graduated mechanical engineer from Mississippi trumpeting "America is dead, long live China" isn't patriotic. Go there...renounce your citizenship and go to work at Foxconn for.$.75/hr....hope when you jump, I hope they pull the nets.
 
Sure...you can do that...but a fucking newly graduated mechanical engineer from Mississippi trumpeting "America is dead, long live China" isn't patriotic. Go there...renounce your citizenship and go to work at Foxconn for.$.75/hr....hope when you jump, I hope they pull the nets.

America gets to grow at the pace it has been growing at (hopefully that will be back at ~2.5% sometime in the near future) while gaping in awe at China's awesome rise. We should be thankful for that opportunity that our glorious harmonious allies in the east have provided us with.

I am a computer science major, there are plenty of jobs in China, in fact the opportunities there are arguably better than what exists in America. If you'll notice, while America has been sputtering along at 1% growth a year under policies of austerity and political gridlock, China's economy has barely blinked as the government there was able to promote one of the largest government stimulus plans as a % of their GDP in history.

I already said previously in a thread that I'm looking into moving there at some point in the future. I won't stay there forever; no one stays in China forever. But it's obviously a good thing to be able to advertise that you speak Mandarin and have spent time in China in the market that will emerge in the 21st century. The jobs at Foxconn are taken by uneducated migrant workers from the country side who's only other opportunity is subsistence farming. The entire country is not, as you seem to believe based on the scary news report you read sitting on your ass in America, some giant slave labor factory where people are constantly starving. That is an incredibly antiquated and ignorant view of China.

Labor in China is becoming expensive anyway as China's economy grows and standards of living rise, businesses are moving to India and other poorer countries. This is what I'm talking about when I say that China can't maintain an export based economy, if it does it will be stuck in the middle income trap. It has to move to a consumption based economy if it wants to succeed. The things you are worried about, the low cost labor, are precisely the things that can no longer serve them in the future. If they just stick to low cost labor, again, we having nothing to worry about, they can't rise and destroy us if they're all getting paid a dollar an hour, that's nonsense. It's you who have the short term view, not I.
 
America gets to grow at the pace it has been growing at (hopefully that will be back at ~2.5% sometime in the near future) while gaping in awe at China's awesome rise. We should be thankful for that opportunity that our glorious harmonious allies in the east have provided us with.

I am a computer science major, there are plenty of jobs in China, in fact the opportunities there are arguably better than what exists in America. If you'll notice, while America has been sputtering along at 1% growth a year under policies of austerity and political gridlock, China's economy has barely blinked as the government there was able to promote one of the largest government stimulus plans as a % of their GDP in history.

I already said previously in a thread that I'm looking into moving there at some point in the future. I won't stay there forever; no one stays in China forever. But it's obviously a good thing to be able to advertise that you speak Mandarin and have spent time in China in the market that will emerge in the 21st century. The jobs at Foxconn are taken by uneducated migrant workers from the country side who's only other opportunity is subsistence farming. The entire country is not, as you seem to believe based on the scary news report you read sitting on your ass in America, some giant slave labor factory where people are constantly starving. That is an incredibly antiquated and ignorant view of China.

Labor in China is becoming expensive anyway as China's economy grows and standards of living rise, businesses are moving to India and other poorer countries. This is what I'm talking about when I say that China can't maintain an export based economy, if it does it will be stuck in the middle income trap. It has to move to a consumption based economy if it wants to succeed. The things you are worried about, the low cost labor, are precisely the things that can no longer serve them in the future. If they just stick to low cost labor, again, we having nothing to worry about, they can't rise and destroy us if they're all getting paid a dollar an hour, that's nonsense. It's you who have the short term view, not I.

The only thing I agree with you on is our policy of austerity and gridlock. What can I say? I can't pick up and go to China for a look see. I'm preparing for retirement, as is my wife...I have a daughter in college and an older son that just bought a house...who we also put through college. Maybe mommy and daddy can afford to send you to China to poke around and make connections...but we can't. So, I guess news reports is all I have.

I notice you keep skirting the cyberspace attack issue. Does that not bother you?
 
For those who don't know ..

Rise of the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation)

With the rise of Asia, the world has become more integrated and inter-dependent. Europe needs both China as well as Russia. Europe’s role in the NATO will be determined by the individual relations of its member countries with the outside world. Even within the NATO, the problem of coordination is apparent. Many NATO members were opposed to military action in Libya, which was aggressively advocated by America, Britain and France. Most of the NATO members are still in favour of a political settlement in Libya. Germany, a major NATO player, even abstained from voting in the UNSC on establishing “no-fly zone” over Libya.

While the power of the NATO is apparently waning, the SCO on the other hand, is becoming stronger by the day with its member states developing economically and technically, at a tremendous pace. The SCO has provided the Asian powers an opportunity to work towards establishing a multi-polar world by taking in their hands, the peace process in the region. The future of the SCO will depend on the members’ inter se ties and cooperation in other spheres as well. Going by their impressive show of their camaraderie on such platforms as BRICS, BASIC etc., the rise of the SCO seems imminent.
http://www.globalpolitician.com/default.asp?26955-sco-china-russia-usa-asia

China welcomes Turkish bid for SCO membership
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/233026-china-welcomes-turkish-bid-sco-membership.html

India’s Accession into the SCO
http://www.strategicforesight.com/india_accession.htm

Pakistan and the SCO
http://tribune.com.pk/story/395968/pakistan-and-the-sco/

Syria wants to join SCO and BRICS
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Syria_wants_to_join_SCO_and_BRICS/25625/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Expansion and Iran on Table at SCO Summit
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2012/05/expansion-and-iran-on-table-at-sco-summit/

Unbeknownst to many Americans, China has created an organization to rival NATO .. and nations are running to join.

Why? Because they're looking for cover from the warmongering West.

Unbeknowst to those who aren't paying attention, Libya has tipped the balance of power towards the East .. which is why the world no longer falls foir cowboy tricks, like 'WMD' or 'humanitarian.'

As the cowboys blaze away and murder everything in sight .. China is amassing global resources through soft power, without ever firing a shot.

China walked away with the oil contracts in Iraq .. we walked away with dead people, a depleted military and treasury.

China is walking away with the vast mineral contracts in Afghanistan .. we walked away with dead people, a depleted military and treasury.

There are limits to military power .. the cowboys never figured that out.
 
For those who don't know ..

Rise of the SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation)

With the rise of Asia, the world has become more integrated and inter-dependent. Europe needs both China as well as Russia. Europe’s role in the NATO will be determined by the individual relations of its member countries with the outside world. Even within the NATO, the problem of coordination is apparent. Many NATO members were opposed to military action in Libya, which was aggressively advocated by America, Britain and France. Most of the NATO members are still in favour of a political settlement in Libya. Germany, a major NATO player, even abstained from voting in the UNSC on establishing “no-fly zone” over Libya.

While the power of the NATO is apparently waning, the SCO on the other hand, is becoming stronger by the day with its member states developing economically and technically, at a tremendous pace. The SCO has provided the Asian powers an opportunity to work towards establishing a multi-polar world by taking in their hands, the peace process in the region. The future of the SCO will depend on the members’ inter se ties and cooperation in other spheres as well. Going by their impressive show of their camaraderie on such platforms as BRICS, BASIC etc., the rise of the SCO seems imminent.
http://www.globalpolitician.com/default.asp?26955-sco-china-russia-usa-asia

China welcomes Turkish bid for SCO membership
http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey-defence/233026-china-welcomes-turkish-bid-sco-membership.html

India’s Accession into the SCO
http://www.strategicforesight.com/india_accession.htm

Pakistan and the SCO
http://tribune.com.pk/story/395968/pakistan-and-the-sco/

Syria wants to join SCO and BRICS
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Syria_wants_to_join_SCO_and_BRICS/25625/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Expansion and Iran on Table at SCO Summit
http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2012/05/expansion-and-iran-on-table-at-sco-summit/

Unbeknownst to many Americans, China has created an organization to rival NATO .. and nations are running to join.

Why? Because they're looking for cover from the warmongering West.

Unbeknowst to those who aren't paying attention, Libya has tipped the balance of power towards the East .. which is why the world no longer falls foir cowboy tricks, like 'WMD' or 'humanitarian.'

As the cowboys blaze away and murder everything in sight .. China is amassing global resources through soft power, without ever firing a shot.

China walked away with the oil contracts in Iraq .. we walked away with dead people, a depleted military and treasury.

China is walking away with the vast mineral contracts in Afghanistan .. we walked away with dead people, a depleted military and treasury.

There are limits to military power .. the cowboys never figured that out.

You made a reference to the "war mongering West" and yet you seem to have overlooked China's behavior in Tibet and the recent incident with India.
 
You made a reference to the "war mongering West" and yet you seem to have overlooked China's behavior in Tibet and the recent incident with India.

The border war with Tibet aside, China is not at war with planet earth. They are not slaughtering countless innocent people all over the planet for resources. They are not depleting their own treasuries by sending mass armies to fight ghosts.

Cowboys know nothing of soft power.

This Satellite Contract Shows Just How Much China Is Winning In Africa

American satellite communication over Africa is so bad that the Department of Defense contracted Chinese satellite Apstar 7 to provide communications for AFRICOM.

Let that sink in for a second.

Wired's Noah Shactman writes:
Every new drone feed and every new soldier with a satellite radio creates more appetite for bandwidth — an appetite the military can’t hope to fill with military spacecraft alone ...

The Chinese are poised to help fill that need — especially over Africa, where Beijing has deep business and strategic interests. In 2012, China for the first time launched more rockets into space than the U.S. – including the Chinasat 12 and Apstar-7 communications satellites.
But the satellite is just the end of a very long race, one the U.S. seems to be losing.

Over the past ten years, China has expanded aggressively into Africa with several very lucrative resource development deals.

The Pentagon, not entirely oblivious to the problems of using a Chinese satellite, has contracted the foreign company for only one year, no doubt hoping that military infrastructure will catch up in that time.

Members of Congress have expressed worry that there could be backdoors in the satellite's hardware that would expose sensitive military communications. A recent DoD study even recommended ridding the U.S. military of all hardware built in foreign countries.

The satellite news comes on top of recent revelation that China's "African aid" totalled $70 billion over the last decade.

The figure is on par with what America spends — except while America spends money on social welfare projects, China's aid to Africa is at least accused of being focused on exploiting resources.

America also spends money on military expansion in Africa to battle the spread of Al Qaeda. As seen by the satellite deal, however, this expansion may now be dependent on China.

China also picked up lucrative deals in Iraq and Afghanistan after America paid for invasion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wins-satellite-contract-in-africa-2013-5#ixzz2TabguZjT

What are we doing in Africa? .. Murdering people.

What is China doing in Africa? .. Developing and investing in the people.

Cowboys never learn.
 
The border war with Tibet aside, China is not at war with planet earth. They are not slaughtering countless innocent people all over the planet for resources. They are not depleting their own treasuries by sending mass armies to fight ghosts.

Cowboys know nothing of soft power.

This Satellite Contract Shows Just How Much China Is Winning In Africa

American satellite communication over Africa is so bad that the Department of Defense contracted Chinese satellite Apstar 7 to provide communications for AFRICOM.

Let that sink in for a second.

Wired's Noah Shactman writes:
Every new drone feed and every new soldier with a satellite radio creates more appetite for bandwidth — an appetite the military can’t hope to fill with military spacecraft alone ...

The Chinese are poised to help fill that need — especially over Africa, where Beijing has deep business and strategic interests. In 2012, China for the first time launched more rockets into space than the U.S. – including the Chinasat 12 and Apstar-7 communications satellites.
But the satellite is just the end of a very long race, one the U.S. seems to be losing.

Over the past ten years, China has expanded aggressively into Africa with several very lucrative resource development deals.

The Pentagon, not entirely oblivious to the problems of using a Chinese satellite, has contracted the foreign company for only one year, no doubt hoping that military infrastructure will catch up in that time.

Members of Congress have expressed worry that there could be backdoors in the satellite's hardware that would expose sensitive military communications. A recent DoD study even recommended ridding the U.S. military of all hardware built in foreign countries.

The satellite news comes on top of recent revelation that China's "African aid" totalled $70 billion over the last decade.

The figure is on par with what America spends — except while America spends money on social welfare projects, China's aid to Africa is at least accused of being focused on exploiting resources.

America also spends money on military expansion in Africa to battle the spread of Al Qaeda. As seen by the satellite deal, however, this expansion may now be dependent on China.

China also picked up lucrative deals in Iraq and Afghanistan after America paid for invasion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wins-satellite-contract-in-africa-2013-5#ixzz2TabguZjT

What are we doing in Africa? .. Murdering people.

What is China doing in Africa? .. Developing and investing in the people.

Cowboys never learn.

Good points all. Don't get me wrong.....I love my country, but I disagree with some of the shit we pull globally. But, when you have a bunch of fucking Yahoos who are hell bent on a theological war, combined with continual bawling about how we "can't afford" to invest in our own country...much less abroad.....what can we do besides try to outvote the idiots?

EDIT: just out of curiosity...I wonder how much China and other investing countries are effected by Radical Islamic terrorism? I really don't know and don't care to look it up, but it would be an interesting piece of research....if I wasn't taking a short break from remodeling the living room, I'd look it up.
 
The border war with Tibet aside, China is not at war with planet earth. They are not slaughtering countless innocent people all over the planet for resources. They are not depleting their own treasuries by sending mass armies to fight ghosts.

Cowboys know nothing of soft power.

This Satellite Contract Shows Just How Much China Is Winning In Africa

American satellite communication over Africa is so bad that the Department of Defense contracted Chinese satellite Apstar 7 to provide communications for AFRICOM.

Let that sink in for a second.

Wired's Noah Shactman writes:
Every new drone feed and every new soldier with a satellite radio creates more appetite for bandwidth — an appetite the military can’t hope to fill with military spacecraft alone ...

The Chinese are poised to help fill that need — especially over Africa, where Beijing has deep business and strategic interests. In 2012, China for the first time launched more rockets into space than the U.S. – including the Chinasat 12 and Apstar-7 communications satellites.
But the satellite is just the end of a very long race, one the U.S. seems to be losing.

Over the past ten years, China has expanded aggressively into Africa with several very lucrative resource development deals.

The Pentagon, not entirely oblivious to the problems of using a Chinese satellite, has contracted the foreign company for only one year, no doubt hoping that military infrastructure will catch up in that time.

Members of Congress have expressed worry that there could be backdoors in the satellite's hardware that would expose sensitive military communications. A recent DoD study even recommended ridding the U.S. military of all hardware built in foreign countries.

The satellite news comes on top of recent revelation that China's "African aid" totalled $70 billion over the last decade.

The figure is on par with what America spends — except while America spends money on social welfare projects, China's aid to Africa is at least accused of being focused on exploiting resources.

America also spends money on military expansion in Africa to battle the spread of Al Qaeda. As seen by the satellite deal, however, this expansion may now be dependent on China.

China also picked up lucrative deals in Iraq and Afghanistan after America paid for invasion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wins-satellite-contract-in-africa-2013-5#ixzz2TabguZjT

What are we doing in Africa? .. Murdering people.

What is China doing in Africa? .. Developing and investing in the people.

Cowboys never learn.

"The border war with Tibet aside,..."

I never considered that you would be so one sided.

And you consider Tibet to be a "border war"?
 
The border war with Tibet aside, China is not at war with planet earth. They are not slaughtering countless innocent people all over the planet for resources. They are not depleting their own treasuries by sending mass armies to fight ghosts.

and the border with kashmir and the border with india and the various islands in the western pacific
then there is the war on mother earth due to china's incredible pollution problems
there is the problem with china's private and public officials corruption
the anti-democratic movement
the imprisonment of and torture of dissenters
the censorship
its state sponsored cyber war
its state sponsored theft of intellectual properties
its clandestine invasion of eastern russia
its million man army
its growing air force
its growing navy
its one child per family and forced abortion of second child policy enforced with a heavy hand
sure, china has very clean hands

Cowboys know nothing of soft power.

This Satellite Contract Shows Just How Much China Is Winning In Africa

American satellite communication over Africa is so bad that the Department of Defense contracted Chinese satellite Apstar 7 to provide communications for AFRICOM.

Let that sink in for a second.

Wired's Noah Shactman writes:
Every new drone feed and every new soldier with a satellite radio creates more appetite for bandwidth — an appetite the military can’t hope to fill with military spacecraft alone ...

The Chinese are poised to help fill that need — especially over Africa, where Beijing has deep business and strategic interests. In 2012, China for the first time launched more rockets into space than the U.S. – including the Chinasat 12 and Apstar-7 communications satellites.
But the satellite is just the end of a very long race, one the U.S. seems to be losing.

Over the past ten years, China has expanded aggressively into Africa with several very lucrative resource development deals.

The Pentagon, not entirely oblivious to the problems of using a Chinese satellite, has contracted the foreign company for only one year, no doubt hoping that military infrastructure will catch up in that time.

Members of Congress have expressed worry that there could be backdoors in the satellite's hardware that would expose sensitive military communications. A recent DoD study even recommended ridding the U.S. military of all hardware built in foreign countries.

The satellite news comes on top of recent revelation that China's "African aid" totalled $70 billion over the last decade.

The figure is on par with what America spends — except while America spends money on social welfare projects, China's aid to Africa is at least accused of being focused on exploiting resources.

America also spends money on military expansion in Africa to battle the spread of Al Qaeda. As seen by the satellite deal, however, this expansion may now be dependent on China.

China also picked up lucrative deals in Iraq and Afghanistan after America paid for invasion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wins-satellite-contract-in-africa-2013-5#ixzz2TabguZjT

What are we doing in Africa? .. Murdering people.

What is China doing in Africa? .. Developing and investing in the people.

Cowboys never learn.

sure, china is a wonderful role model for the rest of the world and a wonderful place to live and work
 
The border war with Tibet aside, China is not at war with planet earth. They are not slaughtering countless innocent people all over the planet for resources. They are not depleting their own treasuries by sending mass armies to fight ghosts.

Cowboys know nothing of soft power.

This Satellite Contract Shows Just How Much China Is Winning In Africa

American satellite communication over Africa is so bad that the Department of Defense contracted Chinese satellite Apstar 7 to provide communications for AFRICOM.

Let that sink in for a second.

Wired's Noah Shactman writes:
Every new drone feed and every new soldier with a satellite radio creates more appetite for bandwidth — an appetite the military can’t hope to fill with military spacecraft alone ...

The Chinese are poised to help fill that need — especially over Africa, where Beijing has deep business and strategic interests. In 2012, China for the first time launched more rockets into space than the U.S. – including the Chinasat 12 and Apstar-7 communications satellites.
But the satellite is just the end of a very long race, one the U.S. seems to be losing.

Over the past ten years, China has expanded aggressively into Africa with several very lucrative resource development deals.

The Pentagon, not entirely oblivious to the problems of using a Chinese satellite, has contracted the foreign company for only one year, no doubt hoping that military infrastructure will catch up in that time.

Members of Congress have expressed worry that there could be backdoors in the satellite's hardware that would expose sensitive military communications. A recent DoD study even recommended ridding the U.S. military of all hardware built in foreign countries.

The satellite news comes on top of recent revelation that China's "African aid" totalled $70 billion over the last decade.

The figure is on par with what America spends — except while America spends money on social welfare projects, China's aid to Africa is at least accused of being focused on exploiting resources.

America also spends money on military expansion in Africa to battle the spread of Al Qaeda. As seen by the satellite deal, however, this expansion may now be dependent on China.

China also picked up lucrative deals in Iraq and Afghanistan after America paid for invasion.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-wins-satellite-contract-in-africa-2013-5#ixzz2TabguZjT

What are we doing in Africa? .. Murdering people.

What is China doing in Africa? .. Developing and investing in the people.

Cowboys never learn.

Might want to look up their activities in Kashmir...
 
Good points all. Don't get me wrong.....I love my country, but I disagree with some of the shit we pull globally. But, when you have a bunch of fucking Yahoos who are hell bent on a theological war, combined with continual bawling about how we "can't afford" to invest in our own country...much less abroad.....what can we do besides try to outvote the idiots?

EDIT: just out of curiosity...I wonder how much China and other investing countries are effected by Radical Islamic terrorism? I really don't know and don't care to look it up, but it would be an interesting piece of research....if I wasn't taking a short break from remodeling the living room, I'd look it up.

Great post brother.

As it turns out, I've been following a theory about Islamic terrorism that took me down the road to China. They are affected by Islamic terrorism .. even recently.

Muslim Uyghurs involved in ‘Terrorist attack’ in Xingjiang, China; 21 dead
April 28, 2013

As Americans are asking questions about the Tsarnaev brothers in particular and Chechen terrorism in particular, there’s another strain of Islamic terrorism that China is as familiar with as Russia is with Chechen terrorists. The Uyghurs can be found in the northwestern region of China knowns as the Xinjiang province.
http://shoebat.com/2013/04/28/musli...-terrorist-attack-in-xingjiang-china-21-dead/

It's another demonstration that the Rand Corporation was right. Terrorism is best fought by global intelligence and law enforcement .. not the military.
 
"The border war with Tibet aside,..."

I never considered that you would be so one sided.

And you consider Tibet to be a "border war"?

Huh? Are we talking about the same war?

It certainly began as a border war, then morphed into a myriad of issues and problems including becoming a proxy war for the CIA.

I take no sides in the China-Tibet conflict. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the issue to choose a side. But the CIA's intervention raises serious questions.
 
sure, china is a wonderful role model for the rest of the world and a wonderful place to live and work

:0) Almost everything you posted in red can be said about your own country.

My argument isn't that China is perfect .. but they that they use soft power far more effectively than the West .. and they are reaping the dividends of that strategy.
 
Huh? Are we talking about the same war?

It certainly began as a border war, then morphed into a myriad of issues and problems including becoming a proxy war for the CIA.

I take no sides in the China-Tibet conflict. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the issue to choose a side. But the CIA's intervention raises serious questions.

You classified it as a "border war" and now you admit that you're not knowledgable enough to pick a side.
Tibet was a fully independent state from 1911 until China invaded them in 1949.
Prior to the invasion; they were recognized as being independent from China, except for China wanting to reclaim all lands that they had lost through history and yet the only information that you profess to have, is about the CIA.
Are you sure it wasn't the illuminati?

You usually exhibit a great deal of knowledge about many things; but in this case, it looks like ignorance is bliss. :palm:
 
:0) Almost everything you posted in red can be said about your own country.

My argument isn't that China is perfect .. but they that they use soft power far more effectively than the West .. and they are reaping the dividends of that strategy.

DQ's not the sort to dispute that. He just disagreeed that China is not like the US in those regards.
 
Great post brother.

As it turns out, I've been following a theory about Islamic terrorism that took me down the road to China. They are affected by Islamic terrorism .. even recently.

Muslim Uyghurs involved in ‘Terrorist attack’ in Xingjiang, China; 21 dead
April 28, 2013

As Americans are asking questions about the Tsarnaev brothers in particular and Chechen terrorism in particular, there’s another strain of Islamic terrorism that China is as familiar with as Russia is with Chechen terrorists. The Uyghurs can be found in the northwestern region of China knowns as the Xinjiang province.
http://shoebat.com/2013/04/28/musli...-terrorist-attack-in-xingjiang-china-21-dead/

It's another demonstration that the Rand Corporation was right. Terrorism is best fought by global intelligence and law enforcement .. not the military.

since we built this huge military establishment, we must need it for something, so we fight wars with it...whether it is the right approach or not

so we are stuck with this war on terrorism being fought by the wrong outfit

bummer
 
There are other markets in the world besides the US. Where did people get it in their heads that the US alone props up the Chinese economy? As well, a total blockade on China would raise the price of goods for American firms, and we would have to compete against firms in Europe and elsewhere that are able to offer lower processes by leveraging China's competitive advantage. What are we supposed to do? Blockade them too?

If China remains as just an export driven economy, then we have nothing to worry about, they aren't going to grow far beyond where they are now. If they successfully transition to a consumption based economy, as they need to if they hope to continue growing, then we would be shooting ourselves in the foot to just lock ourselves out of that market. Our corporations would incorporate somewhere else where the laws aren't so crazy.

Only a country with a growing middle class will become a consumer nation. China's model is Statist capitalism with central party members becoming wealthy while the majority of nation remains a communist nation within it's borders.
 
You classified it as a "border war" and now you admit that you're not knowledgable enough to pick a side.
Tibet was a fully independent state from 1911 until China invaded them in 1949.
Prior to the invasion; they were recognized as being independent from China, except for China wanting to reclaim all lands that they had lost through history.

You usually exhibit a great deal of knowledge about many things; but in this case, it looks like ignorance is bliss. :palm:

Perhaps you have me confused with the Oracle of All Knowledge. I'm not her.

Are you suggesting that you know everything? I don't.

I know of the CIA's involvement because I read about the agency essentially taking over the Tibetan resistance movement.

I've always been against China's assimilation policy .. but I don't know enough about the ethnic makeup to suggest what China or Tibet should do .. but I do know that setting yourself on fire ain't the answer.

What I believe is that after the death of the Dalai Lama, agreements will be reached and some resolution will be found..
 
since we built this huge military establishment, we must need it for something, so we fight wars with it...whether it is the right approach or not

so we are stuck with this war on terrorism being fought by the wrong outfit

bummer

Couldn't agree with you more.

Too bad we didn't pay more attention to Eisenhower.
 
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