Charges against Baldwin dropped due to a complete lack of evidence

BartenderElite said:
Far fewer? These kinds of incidents are extremely rare.
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Yes I agree with you for once, the only other deaths are Brandon Lee, son of Bruce Lee. Lee's death in 1993 was the last recorded accidental death by a prop gun on a movie set.

Before that, in 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum was killed on the set of the TV series Cover Up. Hexum accidentally shot himself in the head with a gun loaded with blanks.
 
Text Drivers are Killers said:
That's not the issue, you idiot. Why did he point the gun and pull the trigger at someone who was not in the movie???
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Baldwin was instructed by the cinematographer, Halyna Hutchins, to point the gun at the camera. She then put her own head behind the camera to see what the shot looked like. That what made the whole "brandishing" charge impossible. Baldwin was not threatening anyone with a gun that all present thought was harmless. That goes double for Hutchins who was lining up the shot herself.
 
serendipity said:
Yes I agree with you for once, the only other deaths are Brandon Lee, son of Bruce Lee. Lee's death in 1993 was the last recorded accidental death by a prop gun on a movie set.

Before that, in 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum was killed on the set of the TV series Cover Up. Hexum accidentally shot himself in the head with a gun loaded with blanks.
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I mean, any death like the ones above or in the Baldwin case are tragedies.

But I sort of get the way a set should operate. T.A. was speaking from the perspective of a gun owner - which is valid for gun owners. I would think actors are not expected to be anywhere in the line of defense to prevent these things, though I suppose it wouldn't hurt if they were. But they have people on sets to do that job - actors are there to do another job.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
If each person that handles the firearm, checks its condition personally accidents like this would be far fewer. Relying on another person to tell you the condition of the weapon is asking for disaster.
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So you keeping saying, yet the last death was Brandon Lee way back in 1993. That's what armourers are for, that's their job!!
 
Walt said:
Charges against Baldwin dropped due to a complete lack of evidence.
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Not a complete lack: he shot and killed Halyna Hutchins and wounded Joel Souza.

Dropped because, so they claim, there wasn't enough evidence to convict. You know, like Hillary and the DOJ on her classified material scandal. :)

If it had been you or I, I'm certain we'd be facing trial for manslaughter; accidental homicide.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Not a complete lack: he shot and killed Halyna Hutchins and wounded Joel Souza.
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They can prove he pulled the trigger on an accident, but there is no evidence of a crime. He was clearly told that the gun was not a gun that could be fired. It was supposed to be a harmless prop.

The question is why was it not a harmless prop, but that was not Baldwin's responsibility. The case was dropped without prejudice, so if they do find some evidence against Baldwin, they can refile.

Doc Dutch said:
If it had been you or I, I'm certain we'd be facing trial for manslaughter; accidental homicide.
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I doubt it. They went after Baldwin, because he made fun of trump. You need a crime to get manslaughter. Without that it is an accident, not a crime.
 
Walt said:
We know they wanted shots of him at the camera, because there is footage of him firing shots at the camera.
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True. The camera was operated remotely, off to the side. As he cross-drew his gun, the barrel was pointed momentarily at Halyna and Joel when he pulled the trigger. Their lax safety procedures put people in danger long enough to get shot.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Is it loaded? Is the safety on or off?
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It was supposed to look loaded with prop bullets, and there was no safety. The gun wranglers hate when actors start messing with the props. It throws off their safety.

During a period of time that there has been one gun death on a set of a movie, there have been well over a million gun deaths in America in general. No one is quite sure the last time there was a gun death in the Hollywood area, it may have been close to a hundred years ago. The gun deaths on sets are extremely rare, and almost always in places far from the well trained gun experts in Hollywood.
 
Walt said:
They can prove he pulled the trigger on an accident, but there is no evidence of a crime. He was clearly told that the gun was not a gun that could be fired. It was supposed to be a harmless prop.

The question is why was it not a harmless prop, but that was not Baldwin's responsibility. The case was dropped without prejudice, so if they do find some evidence against Baldwin, they can refile.



I doubt it. They went after Baldwin, because he made fun of trump. You need a crime to get manslaughter. Without that it is an accident, not a crime.
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Disagreed for two reasons: Baldwin was the one that pulled the trigger and, as a producer, he was responsible for the safety of the set.

IMO, he paid off Halyna's family and Joel and they refused to testify against him. Ergo, "insufficient evidence".

Again, had it been you or I, we'd be facing manslaughter charges.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/01103.htm
A. A person commits manslaughter by doing any of the following:

1. Recklessly causing the death of another person.

Oddly, if you read the statute, AZ has more laws about assisted suicide and "an unborn child" than they do of someone shooting another person dead.
 
Doc Dutch said:
True. The camera was operated remotely, off to the side. As he cross-drew his gun, the barrel was pointed momentarily at Halyna and Joel when he pulled the trigger. Their lax safety procedures put people in danger long enough to get shot.
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Not unusual for a cinematographer to look and see what the camera is seeing. That would be her job to do.

The lax safety, or potentially on purpose killing, happened when a prop that was supposed to be harmless was replaced with a loaded gun. That was before Baldwin ever touched anything. This could still be cold blooded murder, but Baldwin did not do it. Someone could have handed him a dangerous gun on purpose.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Disagreed for two reasons: Baldwin was the one that pulled the trigger and, as a producer, he was responsible for the safety of the set.
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Baldwin is an actor. Actors are generally not responsible for safety on the set.

If Baldwin had started a car which had a bomb on the ignition, he would have triggered the bomb, but whoever put the bomb on the ignition would be guilty of the crime. Pulling the trigger has no meaning in this case.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
If each person that handles the firearm, checks its condition personally accidents like this would be far fewer. Relying on another person to tell you the condition of the weapon is asking for disaster.
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"Far fewer?" There has been one death in 30+ years. You cannot actually go to negative deaths. We would all prefer there was zero deaths, but zero is just a little bit less than one.

How many deaths have there been from NRA gun owners in the last 30+ years. Not zero, or one. Maybe you should start teaching safety to NRA gun owners?
 
Walt said:
The producer is not responsible for safety either.
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I disagree.

https://boords.com/blog/what-does-a-film-producer-do
A movie begins and ends with the producer. A producer’s job involves planning, coordination and management around a movie’s script and writing, casting, directing, and editing as well as finances, marketing, release and distribution...

...A good producer takes responsibility for providing the necessary resources, logistics, and infrastructure so that everyone else involved in the project, creative process and production can do their job in turn.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Disagreed for two reasons: Baldwin was the one that pulled the trigger and, as a producer, he was responsible for the safety of the set.

IMO, he paid off Halyna's family and Joel and they refused to testify against him. Ergo, "insufficient evidence".

Again, had it been you or I, we'd be facing manslaughter charges.

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/01103.htm
A. A person commits manslaughter by doing any of the following:

1. Recklessly causing the death of another person.

Oddly, if you read the statute, AZ has more laws about assisted suicide and "an unborn child" than they do of someone shooting another person dead.
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Baldwin was not a gun expert and he hired people who were to take care of the guns. It was someone else who did not do their job and a person told him the weapon was cold. He trusted the experts. The state justice dept took a long time to arrive at the truth. But they got there. What I don't get is why movies use real guns and bullets.
 
BartenderElite said:
Far fewer? These kinds of incidents are extremely rare.
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I know of two others here in Arizona with "Cowboy reenactors," one at Pioneer Village and another at Tombstone. In both cases, the person that fired failed to personally check the firearm. I'm not saying that these incidents aren't rare, but they could be even more rare if the person using the weapon checked it personally, and knew what they were doing with it. Baldwin, by his own admission, said he really didn't. That's a problem. You hand a dangerous weapon to an idiot and bad things are bound to happen sooner or later...
 
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