Capitalism is theft

[Disillusioned]

Capitalism is the basic desire for all wealth to be located in one place, with me. Theft is one result, so is murder, conquering, marketing, lawsuits, corporate takeovers, revolutions, interest groups, technology and a number of other things.

 

[Lowaicue]

How did they come into possession pinhead?

It went something like this. Long long ago. There were resources. The resources belonged to everyone. The tribes started to get larger. There demand for resources started to grow. There was conflict with bordering territories. Even wars to fight over them.

Even today, you can buy land but the Queen owns all the resources on the lands under her domain.

No. It went like this. Long ago there were resources. However no one knew what the resources were or how they may be used. So they stayed, for the most part underground, for billions of years. Then men discovered uses for some of the resources. They dressed flint, they heated rock containing ore, they caught fish, they breathed air and ate what flew in it.
At this point there was no capitalism, per se, because supply equalled demand.
The exploitation of those resources, the fashioning of those resources, in quantities greater than the immediate need, were the result of what we might term capitalism. Without capitalism we would still marvel at a stone hammer!
Now as far as the queen's ownership of those resources within her domain your statement is not entirely true. Different parts of the UK have different land laws. In some places you can own as far down as it is possible to go, in others you cannot even own the flora and fauna. In some places you cannot own the land between high and low water and in other places you can.
Let me tell you one little thing, as one socialist to another, the biggest hurdle there is in the quest for wisdom is the inability of many to see the world in any terms other than black or white.
I would advise you to consider that.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The world is black and white. The conservatives see it that way, why shouldn't we? We need to fight conservative aggression. Pussy liberals will never accomplish anything.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Capitalism is the basic desire for all wealth to be located in one place, with me. Theft is one result, so is murder, conquering, marketing, lawsuits, corporate takeovers, revolutions, interest groups, technology and a number of other things.

And socialism is the axe of justice coming down over your neck.

 

[Lowaicue]

While the loonies are filling their allotted time and space on this forum with shouts of 'Commie', 'Socialist', 'Maoist' or dribbling over the number of groans they can give in any single 5 minute slot, those who are interested might find this food for thought.:

Economist Steve Keen is one of the few economists to have predicted the global financial crisis and now he says we are already in a Great Depression. He says the way to escape it is to bankrupt the banks, nationalise the financial system and pay off people's debt.

He admits what he is advocating is radical but says it is time governments gave money to debtors to pay down debt instead of to creditors such as banks who have held onto it.

You can get more here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/9641873.stm

 

[cancel2 2022]

What the fuck are you talking about now? WWII wasn't fought in Russia, moron! The Russians were our allies against Germany! This all happened before the Soviet Union ever came to be! How can the world wars be responsible for killing something that hadn't even been born yet??? Bizarre!

WW2 wasn't fought in Russia, are you being serious?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

How did they come into possession pinhead?

It went something like this. Long long ago. There were resources. The resources belonged to everyone. The tribes started to get larger. There demand for resources started to grow. There was conflict with bordering territories. Even wars to fight over them.

Then a king realized the value of the resources and started conquering other nations, even though they had adequate resources(Basically super greed kicked in).

Therefore the resources became owned by Monarchs. And monarchs sold them(the resources not the land with the resources) for other resources(things) that they did not possess.

Even today, you can buy land but the Queen owns all the resources on the lands under her domain.

Anyways, eventually the Monarchs fell and the rights to the resources for the Monarchs was lost. Governments started to manage those resources(for the people). Now it seems that governments are selling and giving away those resources for next to nothing. WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO DO THAT?

I do not recognize the wealth of these people that became rich selling us resources that SHOULD NOT BELONG TO THEM! Lets say we let bygones be bygones, but this thievery cannot continue!

in the case of the US, those resources are leased.......and the rents include a share of the profits taken from selling them.....where does the thievery come to play.......

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

WW2 wasn't fought in Russia, are you being serious?

*sigh* come on man... is this what you have now resorted to in order to feel like you got me? Yes, I know... battles were fought on Russian soil... the overwhelming majority of WWII was not fought in Russia! And it damn sure wasn't fought in the Soviet Union, which did not exist yet!

 

[Rune]

And it damn sure wasn't fought in the Soviet Union, which did not exist yet!

http://www.history.co.uk/encyclopedia/union-of-soviet-socialist-republics-u-s-s-r-.html

Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, four socialist republics were established on the territory of the former Russian Empire: the Russian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic, the Transcaucasian Soviet Federated Socialist Republic, the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, and the Belorussian Soviet Socialist Republic. These four constituent republics established the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in 1922, to which other republics subsequently were added.

Dixie, how retarded can you fucking be?

 

[cancel2 2022]

*sigh* come on man... is this what you have now resorted to in order to feel like you got me? Yes, I know... battles were fought on Russian soil... the overwhelming majority of WWII was not fought in Russia! And it damn sure wasn't fought in the Soviet Union, which did not exist yet!

The Soviet Union was founded in 1922 and dissolved in 1991, so it most certainly was around in WW2.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Capitalism is the basic desire for all wealth to be located in one place, with me. Theft is one result, so is murder, conquering, marketing, lawsuits, corporate takeovers, revolutions, interest groups, technology and a number of other things.

Capitalism isn't about basic desire??? It is about Greed. It is about living beyond your means. The hoarding of wealth by people that have power. Then you add middlemen between the transactions of the Hoarders and the people, and that creates a bigger base for the Hoarders as a buffer against revolt.

Capitalism is about asserting your right to take a slice of the pie, via the power you possess(recognized via your wealth), for doing absolutely nothing.

In the old days the Military and nobles were the middle men. They increased the base of the Rich so as not to get overthrown by the poor.

Though sometimes monarchs got too greedy and even the Nobles and military turned on them(Or the Nobles and Military leaders had more ambitions and schemed to overthrow the Monarch.)

 

[Rune]

Capitalism isn't about basic desire??? It is about Greed. It is about living beyond your means. The hoarding of wealth by people that have power. Then you add middlemen between the transactions of the Hoarders and the people, and that creates a bigger base for the Hoarders as a buffer against revolt.

Capitalism is about asserting your right to take a slice of the pie, via the power you possess(recognized via your wealth), for doing absolutely nothing.

In the old days the Military and nobles were the middle men. They increased the base of the Rich so as not to get overthrown by the poor.

Though sometimes monarchs got too greedy and even the Nobles and military turned on them(Or the Nobles and Military leaders had more ambitions and schemed to overthrow the Monarch.)

How does one get banned from a Christian forum?

 

[wiseones2cents]

No. It went like this. Long ago there were resources. However no one knew what the resources were or how they may be used. So they stayed, for the most part underground, for billions of years. Then men discovered uses for some of the resources. They dressed flint, they heated rock containing ore, they caught fish, they breathed air and ate what flew in it.
At this point there was no capitalism, per se, because supply equalled demand.
The exploitation of those resources, the fashioning of those resources, in quantities greater than the immediate need, were the result of what we might term capitalism. Without capitalism we would still marvel at a stone hammer!
Now as far as the queen's ownership of those resources within her domain your statement is not entirely true. Different parts of the UK have different land laws. In some places you can own as far down as it is possible to go, in others you cannot even own the flora and fauna. In some places you cannot own the land between high and low water and in other places you can.
Let me tell you one little thing, as one socialist to another, the biggest hurdle there is in the quest for wisdom is the inability of many to see the world in any terms other than black or white.
I would advise you to consider that.

Really? So tell me. Thousands of years ago. If one wanted to build a table. What would stop him from cutting down a tree? What would stop him from digging in his yard and finding valuables? What would stop him from hunting?

Heck even in the recent past, there were gold rushes, and whoever found the gold had the right to the gold. Now the rich buy the entire land where gold is found.

Without capitalism we would still marvel a stone hammer?LOL Is that why the soviets are responsible for making the first Radio, Satelitte, TV, potable mobile phone, personal computer, putting men in space,ect...

Some of the most important discoveries. Therefore your claims are not supported by reality.

As far as the Queen? She was riddled with debt and sold off alot of her assets(That she had no right owning in the first place).

Listen lowique. We agree on many things. Though listen to me. Look at the amount of wisdom of our ancestors. Today's culture are idiots compared to them. Why? Did they live longer? Did they have more time on their hands to think about things, study things?

Then again, only the educated had vast amounts of wisdom. Why? Education was limited to the wealthy.

Isn't that what capitalism does? Limit information to the wealthy(Via expensive higher education)?

It keeps the majority of people stupid and thus easier to control(Which is why kings did not educate their citizens too much).

Knowledge(and thus progress)is being restrained. Think about how advanced we would be if people shared information?

I hope the Internet changes all that.

 

[Rune]

What must one do to be banned by Christians?

 

[Disillusioned]

And socialism is the axe of justice coming down over your neck.

Nah socialism is people realising that if they can't have everything with themselves, if they split everything evenly with their buddies, after suitably removing the rich, then possibly they will have a larger slice of the pie. Greed is a basic human trait, its the christians who give it this negative connotation when in reality it can be summarized as the want for more.

Just as a side note, justice is NOT a basic human trait(revenge is) its just a socially acceptable form of revenge, IE trying to get the most revenge without alienating oneself.

 

[wiseones2cents]

I'll stop you there, again this is FALSE! The resources have NEVER belonged to everyone.

Yes they did! There was so much resources, therefore no one felt the desire to hoard wealth, until the resources started to become scarce!

Basically everyone had access to the land and its fruits.

Again, I will stop you to point out the idiocy of your own flawed premise, if the resources belonged to everyone and this was universally understood, why would they fight wars or have conflicts? I understand there was demand, but the resources are plentiful, the planet still has resources to this day and people still mine them regularly, there is no shortage now, there certainly wasn't a shortage then, so why did they have conflicts and fight, why didn't they just share the resources that everyone understood were universally owned by all? Let me help you out here... because there never was a time where people understood all resources belong to everyone, that is a fucked up socialist fantasy you believe in, and it has no basis in reality.

Are you paying attention??Simply because as the groups grew larger so did their demand for resources(Including land). They were not plentiful. Especially land. The western Hemisphere had not even been discovered. Even the Vikings of the North started to expand south. Maybe they are the root of the problem. There wasn't too many resources in the winter northern regions.

If there are no shortages, why do they keep increasing the prices of commodities? Do you admit the capitalists are manipulating supply?

You lack insight.

Hold up a sec... you have completely skipped over the part where we went from "resources belong to everyone" to kings realizing value... how could there be any value to something that everyone owns and is entitled to? Again.... there never was a time when resources belonged to everyone. They belong to who possess them, who has access to them, who owns the property they are on... that's not 'everybody'.

OK. The resources belonged to everyone(within the tribe country/nation). Then as tribes expanded they would eventually come into contact with the borders of other expanding tribes. Result? WARS(especially when there was no communication) Because of this threat from rival tribes? The King/chief/leader would build combat troops(basically soldiers).

Remember. All the resources within that kingdom, belonged to all. Not only the Monarch. Eventually wars demanded more and more resources. The people were forced to work more and more.The king started to not only use his soldiers to go to war with other tribes but to dominate his own people. They became slaves to the Monarch's ambitions to conquer other lands. They got payed less and less for extracting the resources. And more and more of the wealth went into the pockets of the Monarchs.

No, the resources were owned by monarchs, kings, etc. They did not "become" owned.

After they became greedy and used their military to suppress their own people and hoard all the wealth(Resources).

Not sure how things work in England, we don't have a Queen here in the US. Resources belong to the property owner, and they can sell rights to mine the resources.

You have a monarchy(more of an Oligarch) and they originate from Britain but its not the Queen. It is your creditors which are in fact European bankers. They own and run America.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, though regardless. No one should have the right to the resources under the land. That is my entire point. They are making unlawful gain. Just a way for the rich who own all the money and thus can buy all the land. To be get richer.

Well, in America, the voters who elected the people into government who made the rules.... that's who gave them the right. But I can't help notice, have we completely abandoned the notion that all resources belong to everyone? You said monarchs fell and the rights to the resources was lost... that seems to indicate the resources didn't belong to everyone, as you originally stated.

Really? The people gave the government the right to sell resources to private owners so they can be sold back to them at 10X the cost? I don't think Americans gave the gov that right.

Monarchs began to hoard the resources(the wealth). When the Monarchs fell the resources should have been put back into possession of the citizens of that country.

Unless you owned the land, you didn't own the resources. Therefore, there is no thievery. Wealth does not depend upon your recognition of it... sorry... must be another fucked up fantasy you are having. People owned land with resources, and they sold the rights to the resources for $X per ton or whatever royalty amount was arranged, and they capitalized on owning the land and resources and made a profit. Someone else bought the resource rights, invested in the mining, which cost money, and then re-sold the mined resources for a profit. Someone else bought the mined resources, turned them into another product(s)... resold those, and made a profit... etc, etc, etc. It's called CAPITALISM!

You know whats funny? Jesus said(I know your Christian):


Matthew 6:25-26

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
25 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

I guess Jesus wasn't familiar with HOARDING OF THE RESOURCES!! If the Stronger birds started hoarding the food sources, they rest would starve too!

 

[Rune]

Yes they did! There was so much resources, therefore no one felt the desire to hoard wealth, until the resources started to become scarce!

Basically everyone had access to the land and its fruits





Are you paying attention??Simply because as the groups grew larger so did their demand for resources(Including land). They were not plentiful. Especially land. The western Hemisphere had not even been discovered. Even the Vikings of the North started to expand south. Maybe they are the root of the problem. There wasn't too many resources in the winter northern regions.

If there are no shortages, why do they keep increasing the prices of commodities? Do you admit the capitalists are manipulating supply?

You lack insight.





OK. The resources belonged to everyone(within the tribe country/nation). Then as tribes expanded they would eventually come into contact with the borders of other expanding tribes. Result? WARS(especially when there was no communication) Because of this threat from rival tribes? The King/chief/leader would build combat troops(basically soldiers).

Remember. All the resources within that kingdom, belonged to all. Not only the Monarch. Eventually wars demanded more and more resources. The people were forced to work more and more.The king started to not only use his soldiers to go to war with other tribes but to dominate his own people. They became slaves to the Monarch's ambitions to conquer other lands. They got payed less and less for extracting the resources. And more and more of the wealth went into the pockets of the Monarchs.







After they became greedy and used their military to suppress their own people and hoard all the wealth(Resources).





You have a monarchy(more of an Oligarch) and they originate from Britain but its not the Queen. It is your creditors which are in fact European bankers. They own and run America.

I'm not sure how it works in the US, though regardless. No one should have the right to the resources under the land. That is my entire point. They are making unlawful gain. Just a way for the rich who own all the money and thus can buy all the land. To be get richer.





Really? The people gave the government the right to sell resources to private owners so they can be sold back to them at 10X the cost? I don't think Americans gave the gov that right.

Monarchs began to hoard the resources(the wealth). When the Monarchs fell the resources should have been put back into possession of the citizens of that country.





You know whats funny? Jesus said(I know your Christian):


Matthew 6:25-26

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
25 “For this reason I say to you, do not be worried about your life, as to what you will eat or what you will drink; nor for your body, as to what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

I guess Jesus wasn't familiar with HOARDING OF THE RESOURCES!! If the Stronger birds started hoarding the food sources, they rest would starve too!

How does one get banned by Christians?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Capitalism isn't about basic desire??? It is about Greed. It is about living beyond your means. The hoarding of wealth by people that have power. Then you add middlemen between the transactions of the Hoarders and the people, and that creates a bigger base for the Hoarders as a buffer against revolt.

Capitalism is about asserting your right to take a slice of the pie, via the power you possess(recognized via your wealth), for doing absolutely nothing.

In the old days the Military and nobles were the middle men. They increased the base of the Rich so as not to get overthrown by the poor.

Though sometimes monarchs got too greedy and even the Nobles and military turned on them(Or the Nobles and Military leaders had more ambitions and schemed to overthrow the Monarch.)

You are clueless. First of all, capitalism is NOT about greed, or asserting your right to take a slice of the pie. Capitalism is the mutual exchange of goods and services for money or profit. It requires a seller and buyer, both agreeing to terms of exchange... no slice of pie is "taken" in this exchange, the arrangement is mutual, both parties get a slice of the pie they want or need.

Your constant rants about "Monarchs and Kings" should indicate to your stupid ass, how profoundly retarded your ideology is at it's fundamental core. The notion that we should allow a centralized authority control the distribution of wealth, has proven time and time again, not to work out so well for the poor. Yet, here you are, advocating exactly that, insisting that is how we can rectify the inequity. It hasn't ever worked before, in all of human history, and it won't work now.

FREEDOM is the answer. Allowing people to freely participate in capitalist ventures. Now you may argue that rich people have an advantage, but it is only because government regulations have made it so difficult for the "little guy" to participate in capitalism. The more regulations you heap on to "hurt the wealthy" the more you make it impossible for the less wealthy to compete. YOUR idea STIFLES freedom, and bestows wealth and fortune on the central authority, eliminating ANY possibility for ANYONE to improve their lot in life. We simply have to depend on government to give us what we need, and be thankful for it. There is no way up with Communism, you are relegated to whatever lifestyle you have, and that's it. In a free capitalist society, you can achieve any level of wealth you desire, through determination and motivation, hard work and diligence. There are millions of examples of people who have done exactly that. Are there ANY examples of a Communist peasant becoming rich and successful in a Communist country? NO! THERE IS NOT! If you are born into peasantry, that's where you will remain until you die, and there isn't even any reason to "DREAM" you may one day find your way out. It's just not possible at all!

 

[wiseones2cents]

You are clueless. First of all, capitalism is NOT about greed, or asserting your right to take a slice of the pie. Capitalism is the mutual exchange of goods and services for money or profit. It requires a seller and buyer, both agreeing to terms of exchange... no slice of pie is "taken" in this exchange, the arrangement is mutual, both parties get a slice of the pie they want or need.

Trade is the mutual exchange. Capitalism is the adding of a middleman to that mutual exchange.

I can understand if a man works hard to have what he owns, but not people doing absolutely nothing to gain more wealth. And that is what middlemen do.

You have a supplier correct? In capitalism, you cannot buy directly from the supplier. You have to buy from a middleman. You have to pay that middleman for holding on to the product(doing absolutely nothing at all). Why cant the public buy direct and not have to pay the added cost added by the many middle men? In socialism, everyone has access to the source. There are no middle men.

Your constant rants about "Monarchs and Kings" should indicate to your stupid ass, how profoundly retarded your ideology is at it's fundamental core. The notion that we should allow a centralized authority control the distribution of wealth, has proven time and time again, not to work out so well for the poor. Yet, here you are, advocating exactly that, insisting that is how we can rectify the inequity. It hasn't ever worked before, in all of human history, and it won't work now.

Actual Islamic socialism does well with distribution of wealth. This is besides the fact that the western installed dictators invest most of the wealth of the land, in America. Rather then their own countries.

FREEDOM is the answer. Allowing people to freely participate in capitalist ventures. Now you may argue that rich people have an advantage, but it is only because government regulations have made it so difficult for the "little guy" to participate in capitalism. The more regulations you heap on to "hurt the wealthy" the more you make it impossible for the less wealthy to compete. YOUR idea STIFLES freedom, and bestows wealth and fortune on the central authority, eliminating ANY possibility for ANYONE to improve their lot in life. We simply have to depend on government to give us what we need, and be thankful for it. There is no way up with Communism, you are relegated to whatever lifestyle you have, and that's it. In a free capitalist society, you can achieve any level of wealth you desire, through determination and motivation, hard work and diligence. There are millions of examples of people who have done exactly that. Are there ANY examples of a Communist peasant becoming rich and successful in a Communist country? NO! THERE IS NOT! If you are born into peasantry, that's where you will remain until you die, and there isn't even any reason to "DREAM" you may one day find your way out. It's just not possible at all!

Freedom is the answer? You mean freedom from regulation? The very foundation of Capitalism? You have swallowed the hype hook line and sinker.

Regulations hurt the wealthy? BOO HOO poor wealthy! No more money can be added to their billions(note sarcasm).

I'd have to open up another thread to explain this to you and show you how you have been deceived with mis-information. Open up another thread on government regulation and hurting the wealthy and I will educate you.

I do not promote communism. Only Democratic Socialism(in my sense of the word).

I'll tell you what I do know dixie. This world is run by satan(evil). The system of things is of satan(unjust). You support the system of things because you are of the world. Whether you realize this or not.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes they did! There was so much resources, therefore no one felt the desire to hoard wealth, until the resources started to become scarce!

Basically everyone had access to the land and its fruits.

No, I am sorry, but you are just plain WRONG! There has never been a time when resources were owned by everyone, or that humankind had such an understanding. This is a warped liberal fallacy, and has no basis in reality or truth.

You keep throwing in this word "hoarding" when discussing wealth, and I want to take this opportunity to address that. What practical purpose does wealth have, if one is going to simply hoard it? Do wealthy people get some kind of physical pleasure or comfort looking at huge piles of money or gold? And if that is the case, does it cause discomfort or harm to less-wealthy individuals, for wealthy people to gaze upon their pile of money and gold?

The problem you are seeing is, wealthy people are being very protective of their fortunes, this isn't something unnatural or unethical, every person alive is protective of what they own, it's natural human intuition. You want to call it "hoarding" but as I've pointed out, there is no intrinsic benefits to this behavior, it makes absolutely no sense that wealthy people who know how to make money with their money, would simply put it in a pile and gaze at it. So why are they doing that? Well, it's because people like yourself, have propagated this absolute lie and distortion to the point that governments have responded, they implemented tariffs, raised taxes, created new taxes, increased those taxes more, imposed regulatory burdens, more rules and obstructions... thus making the risk of investment not worth the limited reward, so the wealthy have done what any rational human being could be expected to do, and they've secured their assets and not taken chances. The solution is not to confiscate their wealth or get mad at them for "hoarding" it, but to foster an environment where they can freely do what they know how to do... make money! To make money, you have to spend money.... When the wealthy are spending money, everyone else prospers. It is the wealthy feeling confident and enthusiastic about spending their wealth, which will turn everything around economically.... but that isn't the approach you and the OWS idiots would like to take. You've allowed your emotional jealousy to cloud your common sense, and you are now advocating policies preached by Communists, which have been tried and failed miserably. When you forcibly confiscate the wealth of the rich, no matter how great your intentions of equally distributing the wealth to the masses, it just does not ever work! The power players, the rulers, the political elite, the cronies who help, are all skimming from the pot, and by the time it makes its way to the common man, it is gone. PLUS... now you have no more wealthy people who know how to make money and generate economic prosperity, they are all dead or in prison... or without any resources to work with. You're screwed! Totally dependent on your Ruler to take care of as he sees fit, and you'll NEVER taste freedom again!