California man sentenced to over 4 years in Jan. 6 pepper spray attack

martin said:
In the grand scheme of things it might be said the attack on Fort Sumter was a near meaningless gesture. Some shells were lobbed at a fort, did some damage but no one was killed or seriously injured. People obsessed over that, too. South Carolina got the shit kicked out of it, among other things.
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Not initially. Not until Lincoln sought to force the secessionist states back into the union at the point of a gun.
 
Earl said:
How many times does it have to be explained that she was a female, AF veteran who was UNARMED, Marty.

Poor Marty.
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Sybil the Sycho says she's a Lefty. You support murdering Lefties, dontcha, Captain Earl, ex-USAF?
 
Doc Dutch said:
Not initially. Not until Lincoln sought to force the secessionist states back into the union at the point of a gun.
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"Initially" isn't the point. Much of the Jan. 6 payback isn't happening initially either, and Lincoln was hardly alone in his determination to quell secession.
 
martin said:
"Initially" isn't the point. Much of the Jan. 6 payback isn't happening initially either, and Lincoln was hardly alone in his determination to quell secession.
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The States seceded. There as nothing to "quell".

OTOH, Lincoln could use force to attack and burn the South into submission...which he did. Note that the vast majority of battles were in Southern towns and farmlands.

American_Civil_War_Battles_by_Theater%2C_Year.png
 
Text Drivers are Killers said:
Gee - how many years did BLACK cop Michael Byrd get for KILLING unarmed white girl ashli babbitt at J6?
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I would have shot her right in the mouth with a flair gun!

She was part of a mob that were breaking into the Capital Building to assassinate the Vice President.

Donald Trump told her to go and do it. Donald Trump got her killed- and good riddance!
 
Doc Dutch said:
The States seceded. There as nothing to "quell".

OTOH, Lincoln could use force to attack and burn the South into submission...which he did. Note that the vast majority of battles were in Southern towns and farmlands.

American_Civil_War_Battles_by_Theater%2C_Year.png
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Secession was attempted, never achieved.

Most major battles took place when Union forces were opposed in attempts to reach cities, mainly Richmond the capital, the biggest in terms of number of troops engaged being at Fredericksburg on the route to Richmond. Hooker's defeat at Chancellorsville, costing his command, and McClellan's disasters before then were in campaigns intended to reach Richmond.
 
martin said:
Secession was attempted, never achieved.

Most major battles took place when Union forces were opposed in attempts to reach cities, mainly Richmond the capital, the biggest in terms of number of troops engaged being at Fredericksburg on the route to Richmond. Hooker's defeat at Chancellorsville, costing his command, and McClellan's disasters before then were in campaigns intended to reach Richmond.
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Disagreed. Lincoln had to order the Army to drag them back into the Union.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Allegedly you served in the armed forces and took an oath to defend this nation and our Constitution. Yet here you are, violating that oath by minimizing an insurrection meant to install a losing candidate back to the office the voters ejected him from. And referring to that horrible day as "a wedge issue."

You are despicable and should be court-martialed and hung like you hoped Pence was.
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Three-hour riot.
 
martin said:
In the grand scheme of things it might be said the attack on Fort Sumter was a near meaningless gesture. Some shells were lobbed at a fort, did some damage but no one was killed or seriously injured. People obsessed over that, too. South Carolina got the shit kicked out of it, among other things.
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Sumter represents the first time there was a serious battle between forces of the rebellion (Confederates) and the Union (US). Up to that point all the clashes--and there were many of them--had occurred without actual combat. Yes, many were violent in the sense that the rebels forced their way into US property. In some cases, the rebels were ordered by state government to leave afterwards because the state hadn't seceded yet.

In over a month of that going on (mid-November to early January), Buchanan did nothing to counter any of this. The US government did organize a few supply and reinforcement ships to head to forts in Southern states that were still in US hands, but other than that, Buchanan let the rebellion go forward.

If anything, the 'summer of hate' led by BLM and Antifa resembles the Southern insurrection far more closely than the one three-hour riot Trump supporters had.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Sumter represents the first time there was a serious battle between forces of the rebellion (Confederates) and the Union (US). Up to that point all the clashes--and there were many of them--had occurred without actual combat. Yes, many were violent in the sense that the rebels forced their way into US property. In some cases, the rebels were ordered by state government to leave afterwards because the state hadn't seceded yet.

In over a month of that going on (mid-November to early January), Buchanan did nothing to counter any of this. The US government did organize a few supply and reinforcement ships to head to forts in Southern states that were still in US hands, but other than that, Buchanan let the rebellion go forward.

If anything, the 'summer of hate' led by BLM and Antifa resembles the Southern insurrection far more closely than the one three-hour riot Trump supporters had.
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The BLM protests and riots don't check any boxes under the definition of "insurrection." That's a poor attempt at equivalency.

1/6 was at our nation's Capitol. The comparisons end there.
 
Doc Dutch said:
Disagreed. Lincoln had to order the Army to drag them back into the Union.
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Well, yes. Rebels need to be stopped. The question is whether rebel states ever legally left the Union in which case they would have needed to be readmitted by legal process, like adding Alaska or Hawaii. Didn't happen.
 
martin said:
Well, yes. Rebels need to be stopped. The question is whether rebel states ever legally left the Union in which case they would have needed to be readmitted by legal process, like adding Alaska or Hawaii. Didn't happen.
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Why? Weren't the States semi-autonomous? Wasn't the purpose of the Constitution to limit the Federal government, not Americans or the States?

Shelby Foote's famous quote sums up the situation: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/remembering-civil-war-historian-shelby-foote
Before the war, it was said "the United States are." Grammatically, it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war, it was always "the United States is," as we say to day without being self-conscious at all. And that's sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an "is."
 
Doc Dutch said:
Why? Weren't the States semi-autonomous? Wasn't the purpose of the Constitution to limit the Federal government, not Americans or the States?

Shelby Foote's famous quote sums up the situation: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/remembering-civil-war-historian-shelby-foote
Before the war, it was said "the United States are." Grammatically, it was spoken that way and thought of as a collection of independent states. And after the war, it was always "the United States is," as we say to day without being self-conscious at all. And that's sums up what the war accomplished. It made us an "is."
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Your only repeating the seceded states claim of independence. The position then of the federal government, and later of the Supreme Court, was and remains that states do not have a Constitutional right to secede, Southern apologist Shelby Foote notwithstanding.
 
martin said:
Your only repeating the seceded states claim of independence. The position then of the federal government, and later of the Supreme Court, was and remains that states do not have a Constitutional right to secede, Southern apologist Shelby Foote notwithstanding.
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No shit, Martin. That was the crux of the fucking war. A war that cost the entire US 2% of its population.

FWIW, 2% today would be about 6.6M people.

Do you support Scorched Earth warfare like Lincoln's Army conducted?
 
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