California bans building parking lots near transit stops

This is a great place to point out that thinking things through is a required life skill that is largely lost now in America.
 
cawacko said:
We moved to California in 1981. At that time people complained the state was already overcrowded and they were passing anti-development/anti-growth measures. And look where we are 40 years later; most wealth in the country and highest poverty rate and housing prices that are off the charts. NIMBYism is like a religion here and many share your belief that the state should quit developing (it's one of the few things those on the right and left agree upon).

That's why the YIMBY movement was created. Population growth in this country isn't going to slow down so stopping development only puts upwards pressure on housing costs.
Click to expand...

fair.....so long as they have enough water for everyone to drink they should be allowed to have as many people as they want......
 
cawacko said:
Population growth in this country isn't going to slow down...
Click to expand...


And here lies, we must come to admit, a very major national character flaw. Perhaps a global, species-wide one.
Everybody considers him/herself to be breeding material when so many are obviously not.
The earth now has over seven billion people, which is more than double the number to whom it can provide a decent standard of living.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Investing in California was an iffy proposition even before this, now it is flat out dumb.
Click to expand...

You think that because you use the Austrian school of economics like all the right does now



It’s the one school of economics that tries to do economics without using math


They say economics is a sociology field


Why do they do that?


Because MATH proves them to be full of shit


California kicks all the other states ass economically


And most nations
 
NiftyNiblick said:
And here lies, we must come to admit, a very major national character flaw. Perhaps a global, species-wide one.
Everybody considers him/herself to be breeding material when so many are obviously not.
The earth now has over seven billion people, which is more than double the number to whom it can provide a decent standard of living.
Click to expand...

That's kind of a separate discussion but maybe you (and others) can start a movement in the U.S., and worldwide, to get (progressive) men to tie their tubes and no longer reproduce? (Might not be good for Democrats long term but if we're talking about saving the planet...)

Or get the U.N. to pass global legislation of some sort piggybacking off the China one child rule globally?
 
cawacko said:
We moved to California in 1981. At that time people complained the state was already overcrowded and they were passing anti-development/anti-growth measures. And look where we are 40 years later; most wealth in the country and highest poverty rate and housing prices that are off the charts. NIMBYism is like a religion here and many share your belief that the state should quit developing (it's one of the few things those on the right and left agree upon).

That's why the YIMBY movement was created. Population growth in this country isn't going to slow down so stopping development only puts upwards pressure on housing costs.
Click to expand...


and pols will never really say no to development as its the only way to increase the tax base.
 
Poor Richard Saunders said:
OMG. You are a complete idiot. They didn't ban parking. They banned mandated parking


There is nothing banning parking. They only said parking can not be a requirement imposed by local governments before approving construction.
Click to expand...

You are correct, they banned mandated parking. It doesn’t make sense to require a bunch of parking be built when you are building next to a BART station and on top of that it makes the development more expensive and less economically feasible (the mandated parking.). That’s not a good thing when you have a housing crisis and major shortage of housing supply.
 
Celticguy said:
and pols will never really say no to development as its the only way to increase the tax base.
Click to expand...

Pols say no to new residential development all the time here. In many places it’s damn near impossible to build. Hard to get elected in many places here being pro development.
 
cawacko said:
People leave California for multiple reasons but a big one is the cost of housing (living). This legislation will allow for more development. That is a good thing. More development will help drive down costs.
Click to expand...
California wacky laws and high income tax are big reasons for their high cost of living. And their high cost of living cause the high cost of housing.
 
ExpressLane said:
California wacky laws and high income tax are big reasons for their high cost of living. And their high cost of living cause the high cost of housing.
Click to expand...

Actually, ironically, Prop 13 keeps property taxes far below what they should be for many home owners. Property taxes in California are less than in Texas. That plays a role in inflating property values.

The cost of housing is so high because we basically put a cap on supply and don't let it keep up with demand. Thus why this legislation is good, it will help allow for more development.
 
cawacko said:
Actually, ironically, Prop 13 keeps property taxes far below what they should be for many home owners. Property taxes in California are less than in Texas. That plays a role in inflating property values.

The cost of housing is so high because we basically put a cap on supply and don't let it keep up with demand. Thus why this legislation is good, it will help allow for more development.
Click to expand...

The over all tax burden in California is in 9th place and in Texas is 32nd place. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494

The high price of housing also inflates the amount of property taxes that Californians pay. A Californian 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage home in California is 60% higher than in Texas. So Californians are paying that extra property tax.

The cost of a home in Texas is drastically cheaper than owning a home in California. The average cost of a home in the U.S. is $231,000. A home costs 60% more in California compared to Texas. In Texas, the median home price is only $195,000, which is lower than the national average.
Click to expand...
https://homeia.com/city-living-guid...ost of a home,lower than the national average.

In Texas we let the free market keep up with supply and demand.



If I told you I would raise your property tax by 1.2% and reduce the taxable value of your home by half but charge you 0% state income tax would you take it?
 
Last edited:
ExpressLane said:
The over all tax burden in California is in 9th place and in Texas is 32nd place. https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494

The high price of housing also inflates the amount of property taxes that Californians pay. A Californian 3 bed 2 bath 2 car garage home in California is 60% higher than in Texas. So Californians are paying that extra property tax.

https://homeia.com/city-living-guid...ost of a home,lower than the national average.

In Texas we let the free market keep up with supply and demand.



If I told you I would raise your property tax by 1.2% and reduce the taxable value of your home by half but charge you 0% state income tax would you take it?
Click to expand...

I'm not saying this with any disrespect but I don't think you understand how Prop 13 works. It puts a cap on how much your property tax can increase each year. Doesn't matter if your home appreciates 10% your property tax increase can only go up 2%. Now think about the appreciation someone who has owned their home for a couple of decades has gotten and then how little their property taxes have gone up correspondingly.

Texas has the among the highest property taxes in the country (because it makes up for not having a state income tax). And to my knowledge you have no cap like California does with Prop 13 (or it is set at a much higher rate).

They call Prop 13 the third rail of politics in California because even many liberals here don't want it overturned. But there is actually a free market argument to made for why it would be good to get rid of it (but that's a separate discussion).

But yes, having higher property taxes in California would likely help lower the cost of housing.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
If your business is within a half mile of a transit (eg., bus) stop, you will no longer be able to build parking spaces or a parking lot to accommodate your customers. If you are building apartments, you can't provide parking spaces for your tenants. If you are a car dealer... Well, you get the idea here. The state of California expects you to take the bus or other public transit everywhere like a good little peasant.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/rea...pc=U531&cvid=7fedf37f9f904a52a529775aa0a4710b

So, I guess this means people won't need those mandated electric cars after all...
Click to expand...

Liar, but it’s to be expected as you are a Trumpper.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not saying this with any disrespect but I don't think you understand how Prop 13 works. It puts a cap on how much your property tax can increase each year. Doesn't matter if your home appreciates 10% your property tax increase can only go up 2%. Now think about the appreciation someone who has owned their home for a couple of decades has gotten and then how little their property taxes have gone up correspondingly.

Texas has the among the highest property taxes in the country (because it makes up for not having a state income tax). And to my knowledge you have no cap like California does with Prop 13 (or it is set at a much higher rate).

They call Prop 13 the third rail of politics in California because even many liberals here don't want it overturned. But there is actually a free market argument to made for why it would be good to get rid of it (but that's a separate discussion).

But yes, having higher property taxes in California would likely help lower the cost of housing.
Click to expand...

My original statement that caused you to immediately jump to property taxes was

California wacky laws and high income tax are big reasons for their high cost of living. And their high cost of living causes the high cost of housing.
Click to expand...

Now my question that I would still like for you to answer

If I told you I would raise your property tax by 1.2% and reduce the taxable value of your home by half but charge you 0% state income tax would you take it?
 
Last edited:
ExpressLane said:
My original statement that cause you to immediately jump to property taxes was



Now my question that I would still like for you to answer

If I told you I would raise your property tax by 1.2% and reduce the taxable value of your home by half but charge you 0% state income tax would you take it?
Click to expand...

I'm not following the logic behind say a new environmental law that increases energy costs or an increase in the income tax makes housing cost more. Home prices in Texas and Florida have risen dramatically recently. Is that because they passed a bunch of wacky laws and have high income taxes?

(I have football blaring in the background and honestly can't try and do math on a hypothetical right now. I'll try and answer that later.)
 
Celticguy said:
ut development does still happen, right ?
Click to expand...

Sure, it's not that there is literally zero development here but anyone who lives here knows how hard and costly it is to get something approved to be built. NIMBYism is a religion here. You can't build in that type of environment. Mandating large parking levels next to public transportation is a great example of that. That's why this legislation is good.
 
cawacko said:
Sure, it's not that there is literally zero development here but anyone who lives here knows how hard and costly it is to get something approved to be built. NIMBYism is a religion here. You can't build in that type of environment. Mandating large parking levels next to public transportation is a great example of that. That's why this legislation is good.
Click to expand...

well i hope for your sake it helps but i remain skeptical.
 
Celticguy said:
well i hope for your sake it helps but i remain skeptical.
Click to expand...

We have such a deficit of housing that it is going to take a loooong time to catch up. And no single piece of legislation is going to change that deficit, including this one. However, hopefully this legislation is a catalyst for additional change that will make building needed housing even slightly easier.

I'll throw this out there. You hear in a number of states about Californian's moving there and messing things up. For those that feel that way, they should be happy this legislation passed. More housing here likely means less people leaving the state.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top