Athiests Obviously Believe in SOMETHING!

[Damocles]

The same is true of people who delusionally believe they are Jesus. To them, they know they are Jesus. This is an unmistakable truth. They've actually taken three people who believed that they were Jesus and had them live together for three years. They had conversations like:

"Who are you?"
"I'm Jesus."
"You can't be Jesus! I'm Jesus!"
"You blaspheme! I am Jesus, the only Jesus!"

etc... etc...

They knew and believed they were Jesus. They were delusional. There is nothing profound about this concept.

What if one of them was named Jesus? Then would he be Jesus? What if they were both named Jesus, would it be an episode of the Twilight Zone?

 

[DamnYankee]

Am I the only one who remembers when Dixie got financial advice from God in the shower.....?

Was it a Golden Shower?

 

[Jarod]

Was it a Golden Shower?

ROTFLMAO...

I dono, lets find out if the advice paid off or not!

 

[DamnYankee]

ROTFLMAO...

I dono, lets find out if the advice paid off or not!

Careful old fella you might piss your pants while rolling...

 

[Jarod]

1/3
GWB in bluejeans
Financial advice from God in the shower....

Can anyone come up with any more gems from Dixie's history?

 

[DamnYankee]

1/3
GWB in bluejeans
Financial advice from God in the shower....

Can anyone come up with any more gems from Dixie's history?

I'm sure we can come up with dozens from yours, and we wouldn't have to purposely misrepresent them...

 

[Timshel]

Oh, I do agree that views can be changed through debate, but human propensity to connect with their spirituality can't. We are born with that, and it doesn't change. You may have swayed someone's opinion who wanted to live in denial with you, I'll grant you that, but you didn't fundamentally change a person's connection to spirituality, you can't.

Again, I know for a fact that you are wrong. What is the point of proselytizing the faith, then?

It's not an evasion. I will answer your question when you answer mine! What is the shape and form of your thoughts? Are you admitting your thoughts are not real and don't exist? That seems to be what you are saying here!

I DID ANSWER. I did not admit or claim any such thing .

Again, my thoughts are shaped like this. You don't don't get it do you?

They exist as a form energy which can be measured. They are even being read to move prosthetics.

They most certainly exist.

Answer my question now.

I am merely telling you what you do believe, which is not what you claim to believe. I am demonstrating your classical symptoms of denial, which I painstakingly pointed out earlier, and no one could refute. In fact, you have abandoned trying to refute my points, and adopted a strategy of diminishing my credibility and attacking my integrity. Nothing I have said is dehumanizing, that is your tactic here.

You don't know what I believe and you are not able to show that I am in denial. I can demonstrate your contradictions and have. You then backpedal and lie about what you said to try to cover your errors. There is no contradiction in my views.

Well I have given you ample time to explain what basis you can establish objectives and intrinsic value for life, without any spiritual beliefs, and you have not done so. I am open-minded, I will listen to what you have to say if it's worthwhile, but what you will present is some lame attempt to mask the truth. The fact of the matter is, without a spiritual basis, there is no fundamental objective to life, or intrinsic value. We are what we are, and all we will ever be, and it doesn't really matter if we are moral or immoral, because there is no consequence for our immorality. Therefore, morality becomes self-defined and irrelevant. A pointless charade to console our ego, and nothing more.

I have done so. I just told you how it can be done. If you want a complete ethical system you'll have to buy the book or you can do your own reading of various ethical philosophies that are not based on belief in God.

You don't have to be connected to religion to know and understand God. The best way I can describe it to you is, your conscience. You instinctively understand right from wrong, you know when you are doing something that is wrong, but what makes your conscience work? Again, like your thoughts, we can't see, taste, smell, or touch your conscience, you have no physical proof it exists, but you know it does.

Most beliefs in God or spirit are surrounded by moral codes which will satisfy the God or spirit. Indeed, as I admitted earlier, religious believers can most certainly pervert their religious teachings and cause great evil on mankind, I even gave some examples. It's frustrating that I spend all this time typing out my responses, and you don't seem to bother reading through them. Or you read them, but grossly misinterpret the message.

So you are just calling your conscience God. That is highly subjective and actually quite dangerous. There are hundreds of fruit loops that went on a killing spree because they shared your notion of “God” and believed that he told them to do it.

You have outlined no basis for objective or intrinsic value. You are basically saying you go with your gut reaction. Without a religion and the rules, tenets and teachings you have no objective basis for value that is not internal to you. Calling your thoughts God is silly but also delusional and frightening. Seek help.

I read your nonsense when it is not just fluff without a point.

Some religions don't believe in a single God entity, the Buddhists, for instance. "Reason" is no basis for moral code. It is inherently flawed because it is determined by man. You can "reason" that it's okay to murder unborn babies for the sake of vanity and convenience and the "choice" of a woman, so "reason" is an inadequate foundation for morality.

In other words, you don’t like where reason might lead so you deny it as moral. That is confirmation bias.

There is no doubt that we are fallible and that our reasoning may be in error. The bible teaches/tolerates things that are obviously morally wrong with modern understanding and knowledge, e.g., slavery. The God in your mind is prone to error or if you want to continue your delusions, maybe you will misunderstand his message to you.

I know that some religions are not monotheistic. That was the reason for the God or gods. Are you now telling us that only monotheistic spiritualities can be moral?

Not what I said, you need to read it again. I am pointing out that Atheists do not believe in spirituality, deities, afterlife, etc. Nothing in that indicates I believe or don't believe in an afterlife, that is just a statement of definitive fact, it has nothing to do with my personal beliefs. Without ANY relevant belief in spirituality OR without ANY beliefs in religious teaching OR without any belief in afterlife OR without any belief in consequences for immorality, there is no foundational basis for fundamental moral beliefs. I personally know and understand spirituality, and therefore, I have a basis and foundation for my morals. I realize that bad moral behavior, things which contradict my conscience, result in negative karma, negative energies, and diminished fulfillment for me personally. My spiritual belief is the foundational basis for that, without it, there would not be a foundational basis.... have I broken this down easy enough for you to chew?

It is what you said. Again, this is common for you. You contradict yourself and then you try to cover, because… I don’t know… maybe you think God could not have led you astray.

What does belief in spirituality alone tell one about morals? For instance, say I believe in ghosts but nothing else. What is my objective basis for values?

Religious teachings are the ethics of supernatural beliefs. Without it and only God, you have no moral code. Otherwise you make it up on your own and Ditzyism is born. But there is nothing any more objective about your morality than that of any atheist who rejects the idea of a God. Neither theism nor atheism say anything about morals or ethics.

Accepting a religion does not help you either.

Personally, I do believe there are consequences for immoral actions. You don’t always suffer them from an external source, but eventually, you probably will and in the meantime you may suffer real guilt.

No, it simply can't. It fails without a foundational basis.

Uhm... nooo... I never said that. I did argue that we are a society made up of diverse opinions of what is morally right and wrong, and as such, our society and civilization should function and operate on the basis of what the vast majority wishes to establish as the 'rules' by which we live. This doesn't mean my personal viewpoint of morality is relative, it may completely contradict what the rest of society advocates.

Uh-huh. You are just a liar Ditzy.

I already explained this above, but again... I believe in a supreme power, energy or force which encompasses our universe... I don't just believe it, I am acutely aware of it everyday in my everyday life. Through my experience in life, I have determined that my behavior (morality) has a direct effect on this energy flow and this effects my life, the things I do or want to do, the decisions I make, the choices and options I have. If I behave counter-intuitively to what my conscience guides me to do, bad shit almost always results. Subsequently, when I conform to my conscience and do what I know to be the right thing (morally), I receive what religious people might consider a "blessing" for that. My life goes well, things go my way, good shit happens as a result. Maybe I haven't explained it to where you can understand it, and perhaps you have to make that same connection to God that I have made, but that's about the best I can do in answering your question.

You have not explained why there is a need for any God in this.

Sorry Stringster, you have presented ZERO logical proof that gravity will work tomorrow. You have no physical evidence to establish proof. What you do have, is the same thing others have with their belief in God, you have FAITH. You believe that gravity will work tomorrow as it worked today, and you base it on the fact that gravity has always worked a certain way. Spirituality has always worked a certain way in the human species as well.

The logical proof and material evidence is the fact that it worked yesterday, the day before and the day before.

Spirituality has not worked a certain way. There are billions of different religious views (many of them now dead) that contradict each other. There are also people that reject the supernatural in all of its forms, but you demand they are just in denial so that you may ignore the monkey wrench they throw into your bullshit theories.

You are full of shit and quite delusional. Seek help. Frankly, I think you would be better off consulting your pastor than talking to God in the shower anymore. But you could just realize that what you call God is your own conscience (i.e., a function of your brain) and the nature of reality.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Dixie's unique genius is in wasting the maximum time of better persons, averting them from their life missions with his insidious form of pseudorationality.

 

[Timshel]

Dixie's unique genius is in wasting the maximum time of better persons, averting them from their life missions with his insidious form of pseudorationality.

His errors are quite common and so I don't know if I would agree that it is a waste of time to dispatch of them or to develop and learn arguments against them. He makes for a pretty good punching bag.

I actually was at his point once, but that lasted like maybe a couple months and then I realized deism was no more tenable than any other form of theism. He's slow, though. His intellectual dishonesty is like a weight around his neck that may drown him. That is, his conversations with God are a little alarming.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

His errors are quite common and so I don't know if I would agree that it is a waste of time to dispatch of them or to develop and learn arguments against them. He makes for a pretty good punching bag.

I actually was at his point once, but that lasted like maybe a couple months and then I realized deism was no more tenable than any other form of theism. He's slow, though. His intellectual dishonesty is like a weight around his neck that may drown him. That is, his conversations with God are a little alarming.

plus, he tries to pretend that believing is significantly different than knowing. I just tune out when i read shit like that. It's a waste of time. If you were as smart as me you would see that.

 

[Timshel]

plus, he tries to pretend that believing is significantly different than knowing. I just tune out when i read shit like that. It's a waste of time. If you were as smart as me you would see that.

It is significantly different. For instance, I know that debate and reading can change views, because it has changed mine. I believe I have witnessed change in others views. I know several people who now call themselves libertarians who when I first came across them they were anything but. Some of them are on these boards. I am not necessarily claiming credit but, they obviously were swayed by something. There are plenty of others I have seen change their views on single subjects. Ditzy has. He'll try to explain that away as being predisposed to believe or not or that spirituality is somehow different than all other opinions or some such horseshit. But that is nonsense.

Belief is an opinion unsupported by knowledge. Knowing, in this context, is supported by knowledge. Some people will nitpick that knowledge is not absolute, but that's irrelevant nonsense. I am all but absolutely sure that gravity will work tomorrow because of knowledge. Sure, there might be some unknown that will disrupt it, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that will happen.

If I see a my friend Joe robbing a store I KNOW he robbed it. It is not comparable to belief, just guessing or some sort of gut feeling that it was Joe.

If everyone were as "smart" as you human society would fall into darkness and decay.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

It is significantly different. For instance, I know that debate and reading can change views, because it has changed mine. I believe I have witnessed change in others views. I know several people who now call themselves libertarians who when I first came across them they were anything but. Some of them are on these boards. I am not necessarily claiming credit but, they obviously were swayed by something. There are plenty of others I have seen change their views on single subjects. Ditzy has. He'll try to explain that away as being predisposed to believe or not or that spirituality is somehow different than all other opinions or some such horseshit. But that is nonsense.

Belief is an opinion unsupported by knowledge. Knowing, in this context, is supported by knowledge. Some people will nitpick that knowledge is not absolute, but that's irrelevant nonsense. I am all but absolutely sure that gravity will work tomorrow because of knowledge. Sure, there might be some unknown that will disrupt it, but there is absolutely no reason to believe that will happen.

If I see a my friend Joe robbing a store I KNOW he robbed it. It is not comparable to belief, just guessing or some sort of gut feeling that it was Joe.

If everyone were as "smart" as you human society would fall into darkness and decay.

It is not significantly different.


Knowing supported by knowledge.... you're a moron too. Arguing with dixie is perfect for you. Proceed. I shall laugh bemusedly at the cretin fight.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Dixie is a genius though. He has two other people fighting about the nature of his wrongness.

 

[Timshel]

It is not significantly different.


Knowing supported by knowledge.... you're a moron too. Arguing with dixie is perfect for you. Proceed. I shall laugh bemusedly at the cretin fight.

Okay, dumbfuck. You can just continue to believe that drinking gasoline is perfectly fine. I know it is not.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

This is Dixie's Cafe, the rest of us are just dine in morning commuters, stealing a joe on a lonely public stool, trying to ignore the crazy people.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Okay, dumbfuck. You can just continue to believe that drinking gasoline is perfectly fine. I know it is not.

you believe it is not perfectly fine too.

Gaggle of dogs, bitch. gaggle of dogs.

double tap man goo all around.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

plus, he tries to pretend that believing is significantly different than knowing. I just tune out when i read shit like that. It's a waste of time. If you were as smart as me you would see that.

Well if you are too stupid to understand the difference between having faith in something and knowing it exists, then you should most definitely tune out, this conversation is above anything you are capable of comprehending.

 

[Timshel]

Dixie is a genius though. He has two other people fighting about the nature of his wrongness.

Yeah, here we have me and two nutcases. One that believes in God and one that does not. Now, you are so stupid you do not realize that Ditzy is in agreement with you. He HAS argued there is no significant difference between belief and knowledge or faith and reason.

See 3D he is not on my side, he is on Ditzy's.

 

[Timshel]

Well if you are too stupid to understand the difference between having faith in something and knowing it exists, then you should most definitely tune out, this conversation is above anything you are capable of comprehending.

That is EXACTLY what you have argued.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Yeah, here we have me and two nutcases. One that believes in God and one that does not. Now, you are so stupid you do not realize that Ditzy is in agreement with you. He HAS argued there is no significant difference between belief and knowledge or faith and reason.

See 3D he is not on my side, he is on Ditzy's.

Well. he was making the distinction early on. I didn't bother to keep up after that. Sounds like he's right and you're wrong now. Knowledge based on knowledge is just begging the question and passing the buck, self referencing temporally in a chicken and egg fashion, thus, is self-invalidating.

you're soaking in it. It's ain't dishwashing liquid.